Proper dosing of Coppersafe

[HotRocks]

When topping off a QT that is being treated with Coppersafe do I have to add Coppersafe to the RO/DI water? If so should I wait until I reach the therapeutic dose before topping off?

As an aside can someone tell me how to apply the "@ MEMBER NAME " to my comment? As in Hotrock's comment to Big G directly above this comment.

Copper does not evaporate. Just like salt. So topping off with RODI is fine, no additives.

If you are doing a water change, then adding copper back to your WC water at therapudic level is a must (or whatever level your at in the tank, just match the two the same). As if you drop below therapeutic in the tank at any time the 30 day clock resets.

For tagging a member.

Just put @membername with no spaces (unless the username has a space in it)

 

[Big G]

You add RO/DI water only when topping off for evaporation.

When doing water changes while treating with copper, you take out the dirty saltwater that has copper and replace it with saltwater with the SAME copper level.

Easy to do the member's name thing. Just type @PeterG You'll see a little box popup on the lower left with the member's name as a reminder. That's it. It will create a hyperlink after you hit "post reply" button.

 

[PeterG]

@HotRocks @Big G That was easy.
Thanks for the info guys. I was referring to when I do a top off. Wasn't sure if copper stayed in tank (like salt) or evaporated.
I was not going to top off til I reached therapeutic levels BUT if I understand correctly not topping off actually increases the copper level in the tank as the amount of copper dosed is now dissolved in a smaller volume of water.
Will be adding my eighth 2ml dose (15 total) tomorrow AM. Will test water and report back on copper level at that point.

 

[HotRocks]

@HotRocks @Big G That was easy.
Thanks for the info guys. I was referring to when I do a top off. Wasn't sure if copper stayed in tank (like salt) or evaporated.
I was not going to top off til I reached therapeutic levels BUT if I understand correctly not topping off actually increases the copper level in the tank as the amount of copper dosed is now dissolved in a smaller volume of water.
Will be adding my eighth 2ml dose (15 total) tomorrow AM. Will test water and report back on copper level at that point.

Correct. You are best to just keep tank topped off full. Especially when you are testing for therapeutic level. As if you are right at therapudic, then top off, you could drop below desired level with the added water.

 

[PeterG]

Correct. You are best to just keep tank topped off full. Especially when you are testing for therapeutic level. As if you are right at therapudic, then top off, you could drop below desired level with the added water.

Thanks man. Makes perfect sense. +1

 

[HotRocks]

Thanks man. Makes perfect sense. +1

Anytime!

 

[PeterG]

Thanks Big G. My original calculation was .3ml/gal x 25 gal = 7.5ml x 6 doses = 45ml total. A full 50% more than we are now aiming for. Significant difference. I'll post up my results in this thread after dosing complete.

Sounds about right. I'd dose 2ml AM & 2ml PM and start testing end of day 3. Therapeutic levels of Coppersafe are 1.5ppm - 2.0ppm. So you have to decide where you want to be in that range. Be careful with the wrasse. Slow dosing is important with them. And I certainly wouldn't want to be over 2.0ppm

The other R2R member was using a new bottle of Coppersafe and a new API Test Kit. He should have gotten to the following 2.0 ppm at 54.25 ml. of Coppersafe, but he hit that level at 30 ml. tested with API Copper Test Kit. Yikes!

OK, So I added my eighth 2ml dose to a 25 gal tank this AM. My reading with an API test kit is approx 1ppm. I am just past halfway thru my 15 dose regimen and halfway to the goal of 1.8 - 2ppm. Seems to be right on target and in line with other R2R member referenced above.
Will continue testing daily and post results here.

API test really seems subjective based on light conditions and eyesight of the viewer. Was going to use sunlight but cloudy today so I opted for kitchen LEDs turned up full. Will do future test under same lighting. Got 2nd opinion from wife and she also picked the 1ppm color dot.

 

[Big G]

Got 2nd opinion from wife and she also picked the 1ppm color dot.

Always get a second opinion from the better half.

 

[DanielJameS]

I apologize if this has come up in this thread already, I was trying to patiently read through it all. Does anyone have experience with Copper Power?

As far as I know it’s very similar but their directions call to dose to 2.5ppm
The recommended dose is 1 fl oz. per 20 gallons which works out to right around 30ml per 20G. I went ahead and made myself some “baseline” vials doing the simple math and using a 1/2gallon of water sample size.

Here is .75 mills in 1/2G water (their recommended dose) on an API kit.

Here is 1.5 mills (essentially a double dose)

Here is where my tank currently sits with 60ml in a 40B

To my eye my tank looks only about 1ppm.

I do have some things that can absorb copper (1 small piece of rock and a little sandbox for my diamond goby) but I’m worried about the ceramic media in my filter. I don’t want to pull it because the bio filter is clearly a little fragile at the moment (12 fish total) but it’s stabilizing...finally.

Should i shoot To go a bit higher than the API card or use my baseline vials per mfg. numbers? How much wiggle room do you have with chelated copper before it starts killing fish?

All fish seem fine at the moment except my Swallowtail (who was emergency treated for velvet just under a week ago.) She’s free of spots, no sign of a bacterial infection but does not seem interested in food and looks sedated in the corner of the tank (not a dark corner though - out in front)

She may still be infected in the gills and I need to get my Cu up to therapeutic so if trophonts fall off or there are still living Dinospores she’s not going to get reinfected, just so hard to know with these colors [emoji849]

 

[HotRocks]

I apologize if this has come up in this thread already, I was trying to patiently read through it all. Does anyone have experience with Copper Power?

As far as I know it’s very similar but their directions call to dose to 2.5ppm
The recommended dose is 1 fl oz. per 20 gallons which works out to right around 30ml per 20G. I went ahead and made myself some “baseline” vials doing the simple math and using a 1/2gallon of water sample size.

Here is .75 mills in 1/2G water (their recommended dose) on an API kit.

Here is 1.5 mills (essentially a double dose)

Here is where my tank currently sits with 60ml in a 40B

To my eye my tank looks only about 1ppm.

I do have some things that can absorb copper (1 small piece of rock and a little sandbox for my diamond goby) but I’m worried about the ceramic media in my filter. I don’t want to pull it because the bio filter is clearly a little fragile at the moment (12 fish total) but it’s stabilizing...finally.

Should i shoot To go a bit higher than the API card or use my baseline vials per mfg. numbers? How much wiggle room do you have with chelated copper before it starts killing fish?

All fish seem fine at the moment except my Swallowtail (who was emergency treated for velvet just under a week ago.) She’s free of spots, no sign of a bacterial infection but does not seem interested in food and looks sedated in the corner of the tank (not a dark corner though - out in front)

She may still be infected in the gills and I need to get my Cu up to therapeutic so if trophonts fall off or there are still living Dinospores she’s not going to get reinfected, just so hard to know with these colors [emoji849]

To me, you are definitely dealing with absorbtion. Even with your baseline tests, it shows that. They say to read those tests outside in natural daylight. Then the phone pics make it even harder to read. But based on your baseline you have a bottle that is accurate to the 2.5ppm when dosed correctly. So combination of your media, rock, and sand you have alot of absorbtion. I have recently tested 4 bottles of copper power, all of which appear to read out at the manufacturer's suggested concentration of 2.5ppm fyi.

 

[DanielJameS]

To me, you are definitely dealing with absorbtion. Even with your baseline tests, it shows that. They say to read those tests outside in natural daylight. Then the phone pics make it even harder to read. But based on your baseline you have a bottle that is accurate to the 2.5ppm when dosed correctly. So combination of your media, rock, and sand you have alot of absorbtion. I have recently tested 4 bottles of copper power, all of which appear to read out at the manufacturer's suggested concentration of 2.5ppm fyi.

Thanks for the info, is that something that can be compensated for or will it just continue to be absorbed? Definitely don’t want to pull the media at the moment as bio filter is just establishing for this amount of fish, it’s been a little teeter-totter like for the last couple weeks but nothing major, but yanking it scares me (can’t use prime.) I suppose I could leave it sub therapeutic until I feel confident enough to pull the ceramic media and monitor for ammo spikes? I do have the AC100 sponge in there as well which has been running for a long time but i don’t want to pull a massive amount of bacteria out of the filter at once. The rock and sand are very minimal, I’d speculate the ceramic media would be the biggest culprit of absorption. Maybe I can start removing a little bit at a time.

 

[HotRocks]

Thanks for the info, is that something that can be compensated for or will it just continue to be absorbed? Definitely don’t want to pull the media at the moment as bio filter is just establishing for this amount of fish, it’s been a little teeter-totter like for the last couple weeks but nothing major, but yanking it scares me (can’t use prime.) I suppose I could leave it sub therapeutic until I feel confident enough to pull the ceramic media and monitor for ammo spikes? I do have the AC100 sponge in there as well which has been running for a long time but i don’t want to pull a massive amount of bacteria out of the filter at once. The rock and sand are very minimal, I’d speculate the ceramic media would be the biggest culprit of absorption. Maybe I can start removing a little bit at a time.

Did you say you were treating because of Velvet? If so it is important to get to therapeutic level sooner than later (or if the fish that has velvet was placed into the QT).
I run a 40B too, for QT. I have never had anything in it for filters other than a HOB with "seeded" media. I use Dr Tims.
I have a dozen fish in it right now, and have had more previously. I have never had ammonia issues. I would pull the ceramic, and the live rock. Leave the sand.
If you are more interested in testing of copper power check out this thread, quite interesting.

Your API tests follow suit, with everything I have found. From what I can tell from your pics.

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/c...instruments-high-range-copper-checker.368943/

 

[Big G]

I’d speculate the ceramic media would be the biggest culprit of absorption.

I've been using ceramic media, specifically BioMax by Fluval for awhile now and have not had any problem with it absorbing copper in my QT. As a matter of fact, I've got 6 fish in a 20QT right now on day 16 of therapeutic levels of copper. And the copper has been rock steady throughout. Here's a thread Humblefish started on the subject. Hope this helps.
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/seachem-matrix-for-qt-use.363132/#post-4496705

 

[DanielJameS]

Did you say you were treating because of Velvet? If so it is important to get to therapeutic level sooner than later (or if the fish that has velvet was placed into the QT).
I run a 40B too, for QT. I have never had anything in it for filters other than a HOB with "seeded" media. I use Dr Tims.
I have a dozen fish in it right now, and have had more previously. I have never had ammonia issues. I would pull the ceramic, and the live rock. Leave the sand.
If you are more interested in testing of copper power check out this thread, quite interesting.

Your API tests follow suit, with everything I have found. From what I can tell from your pics.

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/c...instruments-high-range-copper-checker.368943/

Thanks on the link I’ll check that out. Yes I am aware I need to get to therapeutic quickly, which is why I’m asking. I’ve been working to get it up the last 36-48 hours. I just dosed the last of the “recommended dose” this morning which Is why I posted this. I’m continuing with small Increments (5ml) and testing regularly until I get to my baseline. I can monitor from there how much it’s dropping. If those baseline vials look correct I’ll try to get as close as possible to them.

I have always used an AC hang on with seeded sponges which was always enough...until one time when it wasn’t, including the use of Dr. Tims, Stability, Bio Spira, nothing worked. Tank went into a full blown cycle and I lost several fish, total disaster and I’m still not sure what nuked the bacteria. No amount of WC could keep up. Had never had that happen before and I’ve QT’d dozens of times now. This time around I was taking measures to be sure that wasn’t going to happen. This QT had been set up for almost 2 months with seeded media and bio Spira in preparation for a larger bio load.

I’ll give that thread a read. This is my first go around with copper power and so far it appears the fish are handling it well.

 

[HotRocks]

I've been using ceramic media, specifically BioMax by Fluval for awhile now and have not had any problem with it absorbing copper in my QT. As a matter of fact, I've got 6 fish in a 20QT right now on day 16 of therapeutic levels of copper. And the copper has been rock steady throughout. Here's a thread Humblefish started on the subject. Hope this helps.
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/seachem-matrix-for-qt-use.363132/#post-4496705

What do you think is eating half of what he is putting in @Big G ?

 

[DanielJameS]

Just for reference I have this one rock (maybe 5” x 4”)

And this sandbox with a couple tiny pieces of rubble and a little sand (half of which is now all over my tank) Diamond Gobies [emoji849]

 

[Big G]

Just for reference I have this one rock (maybe 5” x 4”)

And this sandbox with a couple tiny pieces of rubble and a little sand (half of which is now all over my tank) Diamond Gobies [emoji849]

What brand of ceramic media are you using?

 

[DanielJameS]

What brand of ceramic media are you using?

The same ones you posted (if those are what come with the AC/Fluval 110)

 

[Big G]

All I can tell you is that in my own experience with two Fluval ceramic medias, I haven't experienced any problems at all with copper levels. Once my Qt's have reached therapeutic levels and during ramp up to those levels, the copper levels have been stable. In the experiment so far Humblefish's using Seachem Matrix has found the same, so far. Could be your sand is absorbing a bit, or the rocks.
These are the Fluval medias I use:

 

[DanielJameS]

Yep same stuff. Over the course of the day I added an additional 20ml (in 5ml increments) every several hours which equates to .5ml more per gallon than the recommended dose and here’s where I’m at (looks like a pretty close match)

Tank Sample

Control Mfg. Dose

Even with the control dose I feel like it’s not enough? Reading through this thread, how API tests high, the chemetrics study on hobby grade test kits [emoji58]

I just had to FW dip my Swallowtail, I believe she was reinfected during non effective CP treatment. This is the second time I’ve seen parasitic bombardment on her so I want to be certain I’m therapeutic. I’d take a sample to my LFS tomorrow but they use API kits to double check (seriously) I know....crazy right?