Pros and Cons of these sumps

[Frederick Edwards]

BIOTEK
Cyrstal 36

I am leaning towards the Biotek because of price tag and more room for adding reactors in the future but unsure of the thickness of the baffles. In the pictures they look thin and i am afraid of bowing. Wanted to get your thoughts on these please.

 

[Waters]

I can't speak to the Biotek but I have used multiple Trigger Systems sumps with no issues. They aren't as fancy as some of the newer ones that are out now, but they definitely do the job without any problems.

 

[mcarroll]

I like a plain glass tank as a sub. No baffles. Maximum utility, maximum flexibility. A 30 long or a 40 breeder would be great, for example.

 

[Frederick Edwards]

I like a plain glass tank as a sub. No baffles. Maximum utility, maximum flexibility. A 30 long or a 40 breeder would be great, for example

Could explain? Why no baffles? How do you filter? Thanks, still a lot to learn.

 

[jason2459]

I like regular tanks too and get some really cheap from Petco for $1/gal several times a year. I used a 40 breader and when they offered the $1/gal up to 75g I grabbed a 75g .

I like baffles and use cheap pane glass siliconed in really sloppily. Gives me maximum utility. Also, the way I have my sump designed allows any critter that has made it into my "bio" zone to not get sucked back up into my skimmer (its my only mechanical filtering device) and a much slower velocity of flow area.

But here's a fun thread to go through to see some features in sumps and really pretty setups.
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/best-sump-features-to-date.274203/

I briefly ran a Trigger systems sump and really liked it's layout and took from that when I built out my 75g sump. Also in that thread.

I have had a few sumps now starting with a 40 breeder I picked up from a $1/g petco sale. It was very simple straight through design with a return section where my skimmer sat. A baffle that water flowed over into a cryptic zone like area that I had an ATS waterfall type from Turbo's aquatics on top and a bunch of live rock inside and a Reversed Undergravel filter plate on the bottom. Then an over, under, over baffle setup to a return section.

It was a simple setup and silicone in some pane glass was easier and just as messy as I thought. For me at least. I think I looked at many over at Melev's reef too and decided on that one. http://melevsreef.com/category/articles/diy/sumps


I then moved where my sump was located in the basement last year and I ran across the design of the trigger systems crystal elite 36 and really liked it's layout and would work better then my 40 breeder layout in the new location. Except I didn't exactly use it in the way it was designed. Area 1 was where all my drain lines ran too and had several marine pure blocks in and the ATS sitting on top of. Area 2 is where my skimmer was. Area 3 the return.

Just beautiful huh? I'm much more about function and maximizing space then aesthetics.

It wasn't perfect as I would rather the skimmer first in the series and couldn't fit a very big UGF plate anywhere in there and didn't get around to it yet. I was planning on using that setup for who knows how long but Petco this year offered 75 gallon tanks in there $1/g sale in my area....

So, I designed this and again used some silicone to easily and messily slap in some glass panes.

I based it off the trigger system design but with some tweaks so I could have the skimmer first and a "bio" like area. I don't really want to call it a refugium as it's not your typical one as I don't keep it lit at all and just let what ever grow and settle in there.

So, just like I had with the Trigger sump all drains go to that first section where the skimmer now sits and to the bio area is a flow over baffle. Then to the return is an under/over/under baffle setup.

This is to prevent the left side from ever being emptied. Say for some really terrible reason my skimmer goes nuts and starts filling up the skimmate bucket and murphy is really on his game and either the switches in the buck don't work to shutdown the skimmer or what's happened before starts siphoning out just the skimmer section could get drained. Assuming my other failsafes don't fail too. Lots of failsafes in place. Basically from failures of others or myself that I've learned from and put something into place to help prevent from happening again.

The flow over from the skimmer section also forces all the microbubbles to the surface. The return section is pulling water from the bottom where they shouldn't be. The ATS drains may cause some bubbles, which they do, but those are bigger then the skimmers microbubbles and rise pretty quick and even if it got under the returns first baffle would be killed by the second set of them.

The space between and under the baffles are 2" so allows the 1400gph that I have going through the sump go through fairly smoothly and not like a raging rapids causing bubbles.

I tried to calculate out the baffle heights to maximize water volume but not over flow the sump when the return is off. Which after implementing the new sump it was perfect with about 2" to spare. The baffle height and running height is just over 14" and drops about 2" into the return section. Bubbles have 0 chance of hitting the return pump. The bio area was the perfect size and I was able to get a bigger UGF plate to place on the bottom. I got one for a 90 gallon that comes with 2 plates. So, in 40 years if I accidentally crack the one I have a spare (PaulB knows what I'm talking about... lol) . I think it's a 16"x22.5" plate. I have about 100gph being pushed down into the plate. My turbo's aquatics ATS sits nicely on top of that section too and looking to get a bigger one with his Rev4 version.

and everything fitting in there perfectly.

 

[cromag27]

1/4" baffles. not an issue.

BIOTEK
Cyrstal 36

I am leaning towards the Biotek because of price tag and more room for adding reactors in the future but unsure of the thickness of the baffles. In the pictures they look thin and i am afraid of bowing. Wanted to get your thoughts on these please.

 

[Frederick Edwards]

Thanks everyone. I ended up buying an eshoppes r-300

 

[mcarroll]

Could explain? Why no baffles? How do you filter? Thanks, still a lot to learn.

For posterity since you have pulled the trigger....

Baffles restrict what I can place where in the sump. They also seem to serve no useful function that I can tell.

I maintain the water level for the skimmer with my ATO switch. It's a typical reef-switch float based ATO so the level in the sump essentially doesn't vary.

I made an mcarrroll's Super Debubblizer™ out of misc PVC parts by spending about an hour in the Lowes plumbing aisle....three times. LOL. The mSD™ takes drains from both tanks and directs the totally calm, clear drain water directly at the skimmer's pump inlet. The rest of the sump is open for easy access and cleaning and maximum available volume for emergencies. (I've used that feature too....I don't fly with a small or over-leveraged sumps.)

 

[jason2459]

While I've seen people go no baffles the water level will rise when the return pump is turned off, looses power, or fails.

If the skimmer isn't set to shutdown in those events it will cause the skimmer to overflow.

Not saying going no baffles is wrong as it is an option out there, not one I like, just be aware of the cons as well.

To make sure the skimmer is shutdown the same time the return is one can manually do it or with a controller that says when return is off set skimmer outlet to off.

That won't work for a power failure or pump failure. A high float, optical, or pressure switch to either a piggy back outlet or as an input to a controller can help. I've used tsunami at1 piggy back pressure switched outlets for years. Avast has some out now too. I use multiple of them still as external to my controller failsafes.

Putting the skimmer on the same powerbar and power circuit as the return can help so if a power strip fails or breaker pops the return and skimmer shutdown. I do this as well as other items I want to make sure are off when the return is off.

Another resource to make sure the skimmer is off is some of the newest controllers out that can track amp and watts at each individual outlet on the powerbar they come with. Like on my 2016 Apex I have logic that says if watts <45 turn of skimmer outlet.

And a new addition I'm having fun with is flow monitoring. My return now pumps through a 2" flow monitor from Neptune and if flow goes below a certain threshold can also be used as input logic as well.

Pros and cons to everything. I'll keep my baffles. If done right a single baffle could be setup to keep a skimmer section at the same level even if the return is stopped for any reason.

My baffle setup insures my favorite area of my entire tank, my "bio" area, could never empty minus a sump glass failure.

 

[mcarroll]

If the skimmer isn't set to shutdown in those events it will cause the skimmer to overflow.

A normal, clean skimmer overflowing is not a big deal, so I don't even consider this as an issue. If anything, I think of it more like an extra feeding for the corals that day.

However, YOUR SKIMMER overflowing...

...a different story entirely.

Ew!

 

[jason2459]

A normal, clean skimmer overflowing is not a big deal, so I don't even consider this as an issue. If anything, I think of it more like an extra feeding for the corals that day.

However, YOUR SKIMMER overflowing...

...a different story entirely.

Ew!

Tell that to the SRO 3000 I used to run that would become a foaming volcano out of no where. Made an absolute mess. Of my entire sump area. Foam pushing the skimmer lid up and off.

And You really should read that thread to get a good context for that picture. Which I like that picture its pretty awesome but not as good as this one

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/mtc-mvx-skimmer-review.252436/page-8

I'm still loving the skimmer. I'm glad I got the quick change head but also really happy I can remove the entire top with the flange thumbscrews to get a really good cleaning done. I'll probably do that about once a month. Get a good wipe under the flange. Also super happy to have the neck cleaner. I'll probably keep up with removing the collection cup at the quick change every couple weeks. So, I guess kind of alternate between removing via quick change and flange.

I cleaned out my skimmer last night. Been just over a week and not quite 2 weeks since last cleaning. And this is like the ultimate foaming beast. I'm still getting about 6 cups per day

And thick

Like upside down Dairy Queen Blizzard thick

And this morning.

 

[mcarroll]

...dang....forgot to mention that my sump level doesn't change significantly when the return shuts off. Something has to be wrong with the siphon break(s) for that to change.

A more common occurance is that the ATO runs dry cuz I'm distracted by life.

In that case, the sump level can fall an inch if I really let it go for a while. But an inch takes a long time and still insignificant to the safety of the equipment in question.

Definitely more than one right way.....I just like to suggest an alternate to what's popular.

 

[jason2459]

Like I said, I'm not saying its wrong. It is an option. Not one I like is all. Nothing at all wrong with that. I also would not depend on siphon breaks.

And FWIW that awesome pic you posted of my neck cleaner is what led to some fun exploration here:

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/our-tanks-biology-up-close.239838/page-5