PSA: Be Careful With Palys?

[JaimeAdams]

No, I'm with OP on this one. I majorly upset a couple of Torches and hammers at the store after making up a couple thousand zoa/paly frags from our aquaculture grow out plates at the store. It looked about the same. Had one torch drop 2 heads. Acropora were fine, seemed to really only mess with those and much more in that 4' x 8' tank than the other tank on the same system.

I've experienced the same while trying to remove other invasive palys in other store systems over the years as well.

 

[Timfish]

Couple points, corals can look "healthy" but in fact have serious infections or disrupted microbiomes for weeks to months before there are outward indications of an issue. Minor stress events can be triggers that push them over the edge but it may have been just a matter of time anyway. High levels of palytoxin is found in fish and corals without affecting them so it's unlikely IMO it was a trigger.

Clinical and laboratory findings implicating palytoxin as cause of ciguatera poisoning due to Decapterus macrosoma (mackerel)

A near fatal case of ciguatera-related intoxication following consumption of smoked Decapterus macrosoma is documented. In addition to some of the hal…

www.sciencedirect.com

Distribution and sequestration of palytoxin in coral reef animals

In the reefs off the Colombian coast (Caribbean Sea) and around Lizard Island, Australia (Pacific), palytoxin (PTX), which has been detected in zoanth…

www.sciencedirect.com

 

[Lost in the Sauce]

Shouldn't this post be called, "Don't drop a big rock on a large colony of palys"?

This wasn't the palys fault. You Dropped a rock.. You could have easily broken the front of your aquarium with that rock. Would you then have been warning people not to buy glass front aquariums?

Personally, I doubt this had anything to do with the xenia or palys.

It seems like you have chemistry or bacterial issues Back-to-back for a bit no?

 

[steveschuerger]

I had a bad experience with Zoas that made me re-home my remaining ones. It WAS partly my fault. I was trying to move a zoa frag to another spot and scraped against the rockwork . Injured the zoa apparently. It’s palytoxin managed to kill my Xenia and cespitularia. Did a large water change when I saw my distressed coral, to no avail. The rest of my tanks inhabitants survived fine. Pretty, but not for me.

 

[rhostam]

Palytoxin is a vasoconstrictor and not allelopathic (dangerous to circulatory systems like that of vertebrates and not used to inhibit or compete with other corals). Is there literature indicating they affect corals somehow?

 

[MaxTremors]

Shouldn't this post be called, "Don't drop a big rock on a large colony of palys"?

This wasn't the palys fault. You Dropped a rock.. You could have easily broken the front of your aquarium with that rock. Would you then have been warning people not to buy glass front aquariums?

Personally, I doubt this had anything to do with the xenia or palys.

It seems like you have chemistry or bacterial issues Back-to-back for a bit no?

Yeah, this is my main issue with this, I’m very skeptical, but it’s the title that is the issue. It’s fear mongering, they are probably the most kept genus of corals, titling the thread
‘PSA: Don’t keep Palys’ is absurd.

 

[Baldguy]

I think op is right. Everyone should stop buying paly's and zoas too. Prices will go down and I can get some nice ones cheap.

 

[Lost in the Sauce]

Yeah, this is my main issue with this, I’m very skeptical, but it’s the title that is the issue. It’s fear mongering, they are probably the most kept genus of corals, titling the thread
‘PSA: Don’t keep Palys’ is absurd.

It is. They are an animal which deserves respect. My German Shepard can cause a Lot more and expensive damage. 5th most registered breed worldwide.

 

[ISpeakForTheSeas]

My understanding of palytoxin is this: some zoanthids and some palythoas have it, some don’t. Of those that do, some have it in meaningful quantities, some don’t. Even within the same species/color morph, there might be different levels of the toxin. Again, some might have it in meaningful quantities, some might not. There is some speculation that we might be able to breed toxin free palythoas and zoanthids like we’ve bred toxin free pufferfish, but I don’t know if this is accurate or not. There is also some speculation that, generally, the more colorful the zoanthid/palythoa, the less toxic or less likely to be toxic it is - there might be some truth to that, there moght not be.

What I know is this: you should probably treat all palythoas and zoanthids as if they do contain lethal levels of the toxin, and you should be aware of the signs of palytoxin poisoning in case you experience it, but most likely it won’t be an issue for you or your corals.

Don’t drop rocks on paly colonies, don’t frag zoas barehanded then rub your eyes, don’t bake live rock with zoas or palys on them (yes, these are all stories I’ve seen on here), and don’t scrub the rocks with colonies on them spotless with a toothbrush in a poorly ventilated area and no personal protective equipment.

As long as you don’t do anything blatantly unsafe or that would obviously upset the zoanthids or palythoas, you and your corals will likely all be fine. (And again, there’s a decent chance that even if you do something unwise or something that aggravates them, they might just not be toxic enough to do anything either way.)

So, be smart, be safe, and enjoy your zoas and palys.

 

[Sharkbait19]

Sorry, the title ‘don’t keep palys’ was meant to be some light humor, but I can see that some of you took this to heart. I can see how it was misleading. That was not in any way my intention. Palys and zoas are very wonderful creatures, as long as you are careful with them, which at the time I wrote this thread, I wasn’t. This was seriously meant to be a share of my experiences, but if anybody should have taken this the wrong way, I apologize for that.

I really hope the zoa police don't become a big thing…

 

[Duncan62]

Hi,
If you’ve read my build thread recently, then you’ve probably seen the crisis that occurred two weeks ago, where a majority of my lps corals started to melt. Thankfully, I managed to save them, and they began to slowly grow back. The cause was a mystery, and I assumed that it had to do with the Xenia that I pulled from the tank, releasing slime. Then a very similar problem happened yesterday when I moved a rock during a water change and accidentally crushed some palys. Some slime entered the tank, and later that night, some corals began to close up. I figured that they just responded poorly to the water change, as they typically do.
Then this morning I turned on the blue lights and noticed tentacles peppered around the sandbed. Every euphyllia was practically dead. I knew it had to be the palys, and it is highly likely that when I was pulling Xenia two weeks ago, I accidentally crushed some palys as well. I immediately did a 50% water change and put in fresh carbon, just like I did before. The corals are beginning to open, though there are two frogspawns that just look way too far gone. Then again, it seemed that way last time as well.
I just wanted to write this to warn anyone owning palys to be careful when handling them, both outside and inside their aquariums.
Also, if you are new to the hobby and are looking to purchase palys, think twice. If I had known that the two “cool looking polyps” that hitchhiked on my rock would turn into a poisonous blanket, I probably would’ve exterminated them on the spot. I hope everyone has a great weekend!

Sharkbait

I pull palys with tweezers all the time. Don't damage rhe disc. Grab by the stem and pull. I'll only do a dozen at a time and haven't had any ill effects. I learned this technique from this forum. These are blue green palys. Some are much more toxic than others. Hope your corals come back.

 

[Sharkbait19]

I pull palys with tweezers all the time. Don't damage rhe disc. Grab by the stem and pull. I'll only do a dozen at a time and haven't had any ill effects. I learned this technique from this forum. These are blue green palys. Some are much more toxic than others. Hope your corals come back.

Thanks! The corals have thankfully recovered since, after a water change and some carbon inserts.

Honestly, I'm not entirely sure why this thread has become so popular now, when it was written weeks ago lol...

 

[Duncan62]

Thanks! The corals have thankfully recovered since, after a water change and some carbon inserts.

Honestly, I'm not entirely sure why this thread has become so popular now, when it was written weeks ago lol...

I've found over the years most corals hate it when things change. Flow, light, crushed palys. Lol. Mostly mine hate it anytime my hand goes in the tank.

 

[Sharkbait19]

I've found over the years most corals hate it when things change. Flow, light, crushed palys. Lol. Mostly mine hate it anytime my hand goes in the tank.

Definitely. It is also certainly possible that something else was wrong in the tank that I couldn't detect, and the stress of the paly incident made the corals go crazy. So perhaps there was an underlying issue, but I definitely like to have some sort of conclusion to my tank problems, otherwise I go crazy along with the corals lol...

 

[ninjamyst]

My tank is full of zoas and palys. I frag all the time. No issues ever.

 

[elysics]

Sunny D's are Palys, Kraks (all morphs) are Palys, AOG's (and all of the AOG impersonators) are palys. Most of the very large zoa-like things. I peel grandis off of rocks once and awhile. Just have to do it gradually, grab them by the edge of the mat around the base and slowly peel back. I do it in water, outside of the tank weaking gloves and safety glasses though - and that water does not go back in the tank. Gotta respect ALL corals. A scratch from any coral can get infected and be problematic. Wear gloves. Never rip or tear. Usually you can get the edge of the mat started with a scalpel blade, grab that with tweezers firmly and slowly pry back.

Do you guys have some reliable source to read up on this distinction between paly and zoa?

 

[jcolliii]

I have a biochemist friend and colleague who I just suggested palytoxin as a possible research avenue to. We'll see how it plays out.