Pump detritus directly into protein skimmer?

[GotCrabs]

My first post I believe. Appreciate all the insights I've learned from everyone and amazed at the progress in the industry.

My Experience: Ten ish years of reefing but little success other than FOWLR. But I've completely "scrubbed" my system clean, automated dosing, and I'm going after low maintenance/automation. Goal: Colorful, fun easy corals. Large number of small fish.

System: 150 ish gallons with tons of natural rock. Sump in the basement. Hammerhead return pump. Apex (new) with ATO.

Question: Can you pump detritus directly into the protein skimmer?

Concept: Let detritus settle in sump tank. Periodically suck it up and inject into protein skimmer. Ideally get it to settle in a specific area.

How? I'm working on that. Have a few ideas but none I love yet. How to get detritus into one or two key areas to then suck up? What other issues am I missing? Looking for ideas.

Key: My sump is just one large 40ish gallon tank. No barriers creating sections. Floating chaeto. Some small rock rubble also, although I'm considering removing to help with cleanliness. No filter socks or similar methods.

I've considered a powerhead to stir the sump but then my return pump will suck detritus into my DT. If this were the plan I'd need an automated valve to valve off the return pump (hammer head), otherwise much water from the DT would flow to the sump in the basement. Or I could turn off the return pump, let the water flow down into the sump, turn on the stir, then wait an hour while the skimmer does it's work, then turn the return pump back on. Do it occasionally. Maybe that's possible. Not ideal in my mind for some reason, but convince me.

I've considered a roller mat but for some reason it seems like work. And cost. Although I can see how it would work well.

I've considered just dosing Microbacter 7 periodically into the bottom of the sump. Let detritus get eaten up. Does this make any sense?

The ultimate goal is 1) keep things suspended so it can be skimmed out and 2) automation.

Interested in any thoughts you might have on the topic.

 

[sarcophytonIndy]

I don't use socks or other artificial mechanical filtration. Instead I have a 55 gallon sump (under my 125) whose second compartment is completely full of chaeto and ulva. These macro-algae are not only great nutrient exporters, but also provide mechanical filtration, since the water needs to pass through their thick bed. The downside is that I do have to harvest the chaeto/ulva combo bi-weekly. Personally, I wouldn't worry about detritus. It is food for detritivores (pods and worms) , and they will naturally begin to populate your sump over time, and are a sign of a healthy eco system.

 

[GotCrabs]

I don't use socks or other artificial mechanical filtration. Instead I have a 55 gallon sump (under my 125) whose second compartment is completely full of chaeto and ulva. These macro-algae are not only great nutrient exporters, but also provide mechanical filtration, since the water needs to pass through their thick bed. The downside is that I do have to harvest the chaeto/ulva combo bi-weekly. Personally, I wouldn't worry about detritus. It is food for detritivores (pods and worms) , and they will naturally begin to populate your sump over time, and are a sign of a healthy eco system.

Your comments about the Chaeto being a mesh type filter all it's own is interesting. In the past I've had a very healthy pods community. That will need to grow again.

So maybe I'm over thinking it. I think detritus and think...future phosphate and nitrate issue. But I also believe at some point all things will come into a balance. In your case...detritus eventually makes it to nitrates/phosphates and is consumed by chaeto/ulva....which is removed from the tank.

I recently started dosing a bit of ChaetoGro to ensure my chaeto gets a good running start to out compete the DT.

I should ask however...how are your nitrate and phosphate levels? Are you shooting for lower targets or just accepting what it is?

 

[Jekyl]

I wouldn't worry about detritus besides doing some vacuuming during water changes. Your skimmer will pull enough on its own without the extra help.

 

[Joe's Coral Reef]

I don't think a skimmer would work good on detritus. Its using the tiny bubbles it produces to seperate out tiny particles in the water. The tiny bubbles with the particles then float up the neck and overflow into the cup. I think if you just jammed it with detritus it would overflow. just my guess.

 

[ATAquariums]

This sounds like more effort than it’s worth. Suck out as much as you can when doing water changes, and if you sump gets to the point of having a thick carpet of it, suck it out.

 

[shred5]

I don't think a skimmer would work good on detritus. Its using the tiny bubbles it produces to seperate out tiny particles in the water. The tiny bubbles with the particles then float up the neck and overflow into the cup. I think if you just jammed it with detritus it would overflow. just my guess.

Agreed they are not designed for detritus. They can remove a little.

 

[GotCrabs]

This sounds like more effort than it’s worth. Suck out as much as you can when doing water changes, and if you sump gets to the point of having a thick carpet of it, suck it out.

Sounds like another vote for...don't over think it.

Probably worth noting that I'm attempting an automated lazy reefer approach. Meaning..."no" water changes...and if I can get the detritus to go away on it's own...that's awesome.

I'm pushing the limits of keeping the detritus in the water column so it can be filtered out by the skimmer. DT seems to be doing OK enough keeping detritus "up". Then my side sump on the DT...I have a power head to keep it stirred so it no longer settles (did a lot in the past). Then into the basement sump for the final destination...where I was hoping for an "out with the protein skimmer" approach.

As an example: I've closed the valve to the DT so detritus doesn't get pumped into the DT. Then I stir it up with a head and let the skimmer do it's work for an hour or so. Not perfect but seems to do a decent job. How to automate this is my focus...but my focus seems to come back to just getting the detritus to some key spots...then push/pump it into the skimmer.

That's for the input. Much appreciated.

 

[sarcophytonIndy]

Your comments about the Chaeto being a mesh type filter all it's own is interesting. In the past I've had a very healthy pods community. That will need to grow again.

So maybe I'm over thinking it. I think detritus and think...future phosphate and nitrate issue. But I also believe at some point all things will come into a balance. In your case...detritus eventually makes it to nitrates/phosphates and is consumed by chaeto/ulva....which is removed from the tank.

I recently started dosing a bit of ChaetoGro to ensure my chaeto gets a good running start to out compete the DT.

I should ask however...how are your nitrate and phosphate levels? Are you shooting for lower targets or just accepting what it is?

The nitrates and phosphates are quite low, but the corals look happy, which is my main barometer. As I mentioned, I have ulva as well as chaeto, and I notice at times one will be thriving more than the other, but then the trend will reverse. I figure its likely that they have slightly different nutrient requirements/sweet spots, and they are self-regulating.

 

[ca1ore]

If you’re taking the time to vacuum out the detritus just direct it to the sink not the skimmer. Some skimmers, mostly recirculators, will choke on too much detritus. If you are truly lazy, and I have the utmost sympathy being so myself, just leave the detritus alone. It’s mostly mineralized once settled out anyhow.

 

[GotCrabs]

If you’re taking the time to vacuum out the detritus just direct it to the sink not the skimmer. Some skimmers, mostly recirculators, will choke on too much detritus. If you are truly lazy, and I have the utmost sympathy being so myself, just leave the detritus alone. It’s mostly mineralized once settled out anyhow.

Appreciate the insights.

I'm an engineer in product development so I usually dig deep. I've gotten smarter on the reef chemistry side.

If you have some time, can you comment further on "mostly mineralized"? I suspect more on this might help me see the wisdom of "leave it for later".

 

[ca1ore]

Check this out ......

(16) Detritus is it as bad as some make out? | REEF2REEF Saltwater and Reef Aquarium Forum

 

[GotCrabs]

Check this out ......

(16) Detritus is it as bad as some make out? | REEF2REEF Saltwater and Reef Aquarium Forum

Excellent. Thank you.

 

[((FORDTECH))]

My first post I believe. Appreciate all the insights I've learned from everyone and amazed at the progress in the industry.

My Experience: Ten ish years of reefing but little success other than FOWLR. But I've completely "scrubbed" my system clean, automated dosing, and I'm going after low maintenance/automation. Goal: Colorful, fun easy corals. Large number of small fish.

System: 150 ish gallons with tons of natural rock. Sump in the basement. Hammerhead return pump. Apex (new) with ATO.

Question: Can you pump detritus directly into the protein skimmer?

Concept: Let detritus settle in sump tank. Periodically suck it up and inject into protein skimmer. Ideally get it to settle in a specific area.

How? I'm working on that. Have a few ideas but none I love yet. How to get detritus into one or two key areas to then suck up? What other issues am I missing? Looking for ideas.

Key: My sump is just one large 40ish gallon tank. No barriers creating sections. Floating chaeto. Some small rock rubble also, although I'm considering removing to help with cleanliness. No filter socks or similar methods.

I've considered a powerhead to stir the sump but then my return pump will suck detritus into my DT. If this were the plan I'd need an automated valve to valve off the return pump (hammer head), otherwise much water from the DT would flow to the sump in the basement. Or I could turn off the return pump, let the water flow down into the sump, turn on the stir, then wait an hour while the skimmer does it's work, then turn the return pump back on. Do it occasionally. Maybe that's possible. Not ideal in my mind for some reason, but convince me.

I've considered a roller mat but for some reason it seems like work. And cost. Although I can see how it would work well.

I've considered just dosing Microbacter 7 periodically into the bottom of the sump. Let detritus get eaten up. Does this make any sense?

The ultimate goal is 1) keep things suspended so it can be skimmed out and 2) automation.

Interested in any thoughts you might have on the topic.

Why would you do this instead of just siphon it out into bucket and pour in drain ? What is the point?

 

[D4jack]

If you're already gathering it somewhere I would just remove it outright. The skimmer will probably just put most back into the water column.

 

[((FORDTECH))]

If you're already gathering it somewhere I would just remove it outright. The skimmer will probably just put most back into the water column.

Yea not sure what this guy is thinking and why he felt this may be a better idea then just removing it from tank...

 

[Vette67]

Depends on the type of skimmer you have. In my case, if I were to vacuum crap directly into my beckett injector, the small gravel particles. or snail shells that would get sucked up with the detritus, would clog my injector, only increasing the work I would have to do to clean it. I envision the same thing happening to a needle wheel. Bits of snail shell and crap embedding into that and making it work less efficiently, only causing you to have to then clean the skimmer after you clean the bottom of your sump. So that's my thought on it.

 

[GotCrabs]

Yea not sure what this guy is thinking and why he felt this may be a better idea then just removing it from tank...

Reference "lazy reefer" and "automation" comments in original posts.

 

[GotCrabs]

Depends on the type of skimmer you have. In my case, if I were to vacuum crap directly into my beckett injector, the small gravel particles. or snail shells that would get sucked up with the detritus, would clog my injector, only increasing the work I would have to do to clean it. I envision the same thing happening to a needle wheel. Bits of snail shell and crap embedding into that and making it work less efficiently, only causing you to have to then clean the skimmer after you clean the bottom of your sump. So that's my thought on it.

Good point.

I had envisioned injecting it into the stream after the needle wheel, or directly into the side of the skimmer.

I had a good read on another thread around detritus. I think I'm going to sit back and let it build up. Also let other creatures build up. Take measurements over time and see what happens. From there, quarterly, I'll just stir it up and let the skimmer do the best it can.

Simpler than automation, and based on the feedback in the detritus thread, probably the better choice.

Thanks again to all for the feedback.