Purple tang - stress spots/ich/something else

[loops123]

Hi all,

I've had this guy in QT for 2 weeks, just observing.

He's been active and eating well.

I did however notice some white on his head, rest is clear. I don't think it's something I should be concerned about, but would like to make sure.
It almost perfectly matches the patterns on his head. Can only see it from certain angles when the light falls right.

Apologies for image spam in advance, thought the more the more accurate :D

 

[vetteguy53081]

Hi all,

I've had this guy in QT for 2 weeks, just observing.

He's been active and eating well.

I did however notice some white on his head, rest is clear. I don't think it's something I should be concerned about, but would like to make sure.
It almost perfectly matches the patterns on his head. Can only see it from certain angles when the light falls right.

Apologies for image spam in advance, thought the more the more accurate :D

Im seeing light facial erosion known as HLLE which cause pits and flesh missing mainly in tangs, angels and some rabbitfish. It is often caused by poor water quality, high use of carbon, poor water quality (elevated nitrate and ammonia) and inadequate/poor diet. It is not life threating in any way but offers secondary infection in some cases.
Maintaining GOOD water quality and diet are often the fixes and with severe cases, some healing.
Some foods to feed tang are :
LRS herbivore diet
Formula 2 flake and frozen
TDO Pellets
small plankton
Hikari Marine cuisine
Ocean nutrition veggie diet
spirulina brine shrimp
mysis shrimp
Prime reef
Nori seaweed basted with garlic extract

Add selcon vitamins to foods occasionally

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Hi all,

I've had this guy in QT for 2 weeks, just observing.

He's been active and eating well.

I did however notice some white on his head, rest is clear. I don't think it's something I should be concerned about, but would like to make sure.
It almost perfectly matches the patterns on his head. Can only see it from certain angles when the light falls right.

Apologies for image spam in advance, thought the more the more accurate :D

I wouldn't just observe this fish, they get ich often enough that you should treat prophylactically with coppersafe.

However, the pits around the eye is the start of Head and Lateral Line Erosion - something this species is very prone to (in fact, some dealers offer discounts on this species if they start to show signs.

https://www.reef2reef.com/ams/head-and-lateral-line-erosion-hlle.784/

 

[loops123]

Thanks for the input all, will read up on HLLE, not great to hear :(

He also started flashing/scratching.
I'm really concerned.
I just did a 40% water change , not even sure if it will help a thing.

Could it be flukes?

@Jay Hemdal would really appreciate your thoughts on next actions. You already said I should treat ich prophylactically, would that be the next thing I do, or is flukes perhaps something to consider.

Sidenote, ammonia badge was sitting at 0.05, even after water change & adding Prime



Thanks!

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Thanks for the input all, will read up on HLLE, not great to hear :(

He also started flashing/scratching.
I'm really concerned.
I just did a 40% water change , not even sure if it will help a thing.

Could it be flukes?

@Jay Hemdal would really appreciate your thoughts on next actions. You already said I should treat ich prophylactically, would that be the next thing I do, or is flukes perhaps something to consider.

Sidenote, ammonia badge was sitting at 0.05, even after water change & adding Prime



Thanks!

Well, this species is also prone to flukes. That is handled with praziquantel. Trouble is, dosing copper AND praziquantel can be stressful. I prefer to dose copper first, and then prazi. Reasoning is that protozoans kill faster than flukes do. Still, with a fish already scratching, it may need a dose of prazi to knock back their numbers and THEN run copper, and then give a full course of prazi later on.

 

[loops123]

Well, this species is also prone to flukes. That is handled with praziquantel. Trouble is, dosing copper AND praziquantel can be stressful. I prefer to dose copper first, and then prazi. Reasoning is that protozoans kill faster than flukes do. Still, with a fish already scratching, it may need a dose of prazi to knock back their numbers and THEN run copper, and then give a full course of prazi later on.

Thanks!

Based on it's behaviour, is it almost definitely flukes or ich? Perhaps one more than the other?
Been seeing people advising on doing a freshwater dip to confirm flukes, not sure if it's already a sure thing.

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Thanks!

Based on it's behaviour, is it almost definitely flukes or ich? Perhaps one more than the other?
Been seeing people advising on doing a freshwater dip to confirm flukes, not sure if it's already a sure thing.

It could be both issues concurrently. The scratching is most likely flukes.

FW dips to confirm flukes only works on one of the three common species - you need a microscope to see the other two types.

 

[loops123]

It could be both issues concurrently. The scratching is most likely flukes.

FW dips to confirm flukes only works on one of the three common species - you need a microscope to see the other two types.

Thanks, since then I've added Prazipro, 30 hours ago.
Still seeing some flashing, loss of apetite and looking very pale.

Is this a known effect of Prazipro? I'm really worried!

He's still swimming upright and comes out from PVC quite often, breathing is pretty rapid though.

I'm running an airstone, and the hang-on filter is providing some surface agitation.

Is there anything else I can do besides letting him rest and keeping the tank dark?

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Thanks, since then I've added Prazipro, 30 hours ago.
Still seeing some flashing, loss of apetite and looking very pale.

Is this a known effect of Prazipro? I'm really worried!

He's still swimming upright and comes out from PVC quite often, breathing is pretty rapid though.

I'm running an airstone, and the hang-on filter is providing some surface agitation.

Is there anything else I can do besides letting him rest and keeping the tank dark?

Prazipro can deplete oxygen, but adding good aeration takes care of that.

Is the tang eating? If not, that's very serious.
What is the copper level?
Can you post a video?

 

[loops123]

Prazipro can deplete oxygen, but adding good aeration takes care of that.

Is the tang eating? If not, that's very serious.
What is the copper level?
Can you post a video?

I'm unsure about the copper, I don't have a test for it. But I didn't add any copper treatments.

Not taking the pellets, I could try adding Nori? Last time I saw it eating was yesterday.

Here are 2 videos. I'm truly flabbergasted by how it got color back within a couple of minutes. Not sure if it was because of the phone light. Literally looked white pale.

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

I'm unsure about the copper, I don't have a test for it. But I didn't add any copper treatments.

Not taking the pellets, I could try adding Nori? Last time I saw it eating was yesterday.

Here are 2 videos. I'm truly flabbergasted by how it got color back within a couple of minutes. Not sure if it was because of the phone light. Literally looked white pale.

It does look pale and seems to be breathing fast, despite the good aeration.

I'd consider using coppersafe or copper power at 2.25 ppm, tested with a Hanna HR tester.

 

[loops123]

I'm unsure about the copper, I don't have a test for it. But I didn't add any copper treatments.

Not taking the pellets, I could try adding Nori? Last time I saw it eating was yesterday.

Here are 2 videos. I'm truly flabbergasted by how it got color back within a couple of minutes. Not sure if it was because of the phone light. Literally looked white pale.

It does look pale and seems to be breathing fast, despite the good aeration.

I'd consider using coppersafe or copper power at 2.25 ppm, tested with a Hanna HR tester.

I can look at getting tomorrow, don't have on hand though and won't be able to get a hanna. Not readily available where I'm from.

LFS gave me methalyne blue, but I wasn't sure if I should use it. Would it be beneficial to use at the moment? I don't know much about it.

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

I can look at getting tomorrow, don't have on hand though and won't be able to get a hanna. Not readily available where I'm from.

LFS gave me methalyne blue, but I wasn't sure if I should use it. Would it be beneficial to use at the moment? I don't know much about it.

Methylene blue is really old school, and mostly useful in FW tanks, mostly to reduce fungus on FW fish eggs.

 

[W31Olds]

If you can't get Copper or a good test kit your other option is to begin Hyposalinity.

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

If you can't get Copper or a good test kit your other option is to begin Hyposalinity.

If they want to try that, here is a post with instructions:

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/hyposalinity.880546/

 

[loops123]

If you can't get Copper or a good test kit your other option is to begin Hyposalinity.

Thank you, going through Jay's article now.

Regarding copper treatments, I can get cupramine & Salifert test kit. Not sure if that will be accurate/safe enough?

Would you recommend starting Hyposalinity / Cupramine as soon as possible or wait a bit since I've dosed PraziPro (day 1/2 ago)

Also, I'm not seeing any white spots. Could it still be ich cause his behaviour, and that white spots are just not visible?

Edit: Don't think I'll go the Hyposalinity route, I don't trust my refractometer nearly enough for that level of measurements.

 

[W31Olds]

Praizi breaks down quickly in Saltwater but I would do a Water Change if you can. Cupramine will work. I can't speak to the Accuracy of the Salifert Copper Test kit, I would look at the MFG Instructions. Just make sure you calculate the actual water volume correctly. Don't use the Tank size. This applies when dosing Prazi also.

 

[loops123]

Hi, just an update here.

So at the 48h mark after dosing PraziPro, things started looking really bad. Constantly hugging the bubble stream, extremely pale, almost no purple.

I did a large waterchange, and then added some carbon and another airstone.

The colour returned quickly, but after 30min she was on lying on her side, looking moribund.

I was 99.9% she was a goner. Somehow after 4 hours she got herself up and started bounce swimming on the bottom. Not sure if there's a word for it...

This is what it currently looks like.
Any advice on next steps? Not sure if meds at this point are the correct step?

Every now and again, she does come off the botto,m hovering for a bit in the middle of the tank.

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Hi, just an update here.

So at the 48h mark after dosing PraziPro, things started looking really bad. Constantly hugging the bubble stream, extremely pale, almost no purple.

I did a large waterchange, and then added some carbon and another airstone.

The colour returned quickly, but after 30min she was on lying on her side, looking moribund.

I was 99.9% she was a goner. Somehow after 4 hours she got herself up and started bounce swimming on the bottom. Not sure if there's a word for it...

This is what it currently looks like.
Any advice on next steps? Not sure if meds at this point are the correct step?

Every now and again, she does come off the botto,m hovering for a bit in the middle of the tank.

Whoa - sorry to see. The fish is REALLY thin in this video, that wasn't apparent in the other videos. Either the angle was wrong in the other videos and I just couldn't see it, or this fish thinned out really quickly. It wasn't exposed to a sharp rise in salinity was it?

Its breathing fast, this could be a protozoan gill parasite, velvet. It could also be a water quality issue. What is the ammonia level reading?

 

[loops123]

Whoa - sorry to see. The fish is REALLY thin in this video, that wasn't apparent in the other videos. Either the angle was wrong in the other videos and I just couldn't see it, or this fish thinned out really quickly. It wasn't exposed to a sharp rise in salinity was it?

Its breathing fast, this could be a protozoan gill parasite, velvet. It could also be a water quality issue. What is the ammonia level reading?

I think it finned out really quick. It was eating very well before the flashing started.

I've been keeping a close eye on the salinity, so highly dount it.

The flashing has stopped completely though.

Ammonia is reading 0.05 on seachem badge. But not sure how much I trust it. Been like that even after 80% waterchange.

I could perhaps put it in water from main tank where other fish are thriving?