Dying Kole Tang

[AcanSamDC]

My Kole Tang is about to die. I have attached a video of him. I know it’s over for him but am concerned about the other fish and future fish. I would love figuring out what the issue is.

About three weeks ago I broke down my 135g system and moved it to another room. I spread my fish, coral and live rock out between five smaller tanks I have (some temporary), and then moved everything back in about three days later. The tank previously had a sand bed, but I set it back up as bare bottom.

Initially, all fish were fine. For about ten days. Then I started notching my kole and yellow tangs were fuzzy/blurry and acting odd. They were both playing way too much in front of my gyre pump so thought they had velvet. Three days later it was clear they didn’t, bc they hadn’t gotten worse. But the white spots had become larger and more singular. So I concluded they had Ich or bacterial tufts. I am now five days into treating with reef medic and also added Selcan, Garlic Powder, and betacan 1,3 to their diet. The yellow pretty quickly got all better. The Kole lost its white spots but still looked faded out. It didn’t eat for five days so I knew it was over. But what does it have?

Does my whole tank have ich, the move stressed the tangs out and they became symptomatic, and the Kole got something secondary and the yellow didn’t? What should I do moving forward? Do I need to go fallow. I also have four Chromis and a mandarin in the tank, all of whom have shown no symptoms.

I admittedly don’t test for nutrients. Is it possible the tank is cycling enough to stress this fish out? If so, why are my corals not effected? I have dozens of euphyllia that are acting like nothing has happened. Same with Gonis and some easier sps.

@Jay Hemdal @Humblefish can you help?

 

[AcanSamDC]

Sorry, here’s the video

 

[AcanSamDC]

Sorry, here’s the video

 

[AcanSamDC]

Sorry, here’s the video

 

[AcanSamDC]

Sorry. Having IT issues it seems. Here is the video

 

[MauiAnglerReef]

Upload the video as an unlisted YouTube video and send the link

 

[vetteguy53081]

Sorry, here’s the video

Video is fine but Dark. Always use white light intensity, no blue for best clarity. Preliminarily, I see what may be velvet but not confirmed. Please repose video with lighting requested

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Sorry. Having IT issues it seems. Here is the video

Sorry - the video is too dark blue and pixelated to see much.

From I can see, this is most likely late stage Cryptocaryon (ich). The Medic and dietary changes rarely stop active ick infections - coppersafe or hyposalinity are more of a sure thing.

 

[MnFish1]

My Kole Tang is about to die. I have attached a video of him. I know it’s over for him but am concerned about the other fish and future fish. I would love figuring out what the issue is.

About three weeks ago I broke down my 135g system and moved it to another room. I spread my fish, coral and live rock out between five smaller tanks I have (some temporary), and then moved everything back in about three days later. The tank previously had a sand bed, but I set it back up as bare bottom.

Diseases can linger in a tank - being passed from fish to fish, and then appear during a move, etc

Initially, all fish were fine. For about ten days. Then I started notching my kole and yellow tangs were fuzzy/blurry and acting odd. They were both playing way too much in front of my gyre pump so thought they had velvet. Three days later it was clear they didn’t, bc they hadn’t gotten worse. But the white spots had become larger and more singular. So I concluded they had Ich or bacterial tufts. I am now five days into treating with reef medic and also added Selcan, Garlic Powder, and betacan 1,3 to their diet. The yellow pretty quickly got all better. The Kole lost its white spots but still looked faded out. It didn’t eat for five days so I knew it was over. But what does it have?

These medications would have little effect on(especially the selcan, garlic, betaken) - treatment for an active outbreak is different Than for treating for prevention. If I were you I would treat all of your fish with copper, leaving your display tank fallow. Unfortunately I can't see the pictures/video on my browser.

Does my whole tank have ich, the move stressed the tangs out and they became symptomatic, and the Kole got something secondary and the yellow didn’t? What should I do moving forward? Do I need to go fallow. I also have four Chromis and a mandarin in the tank, all of whom have shown no symptoms.

Yes. The yellow may have had it as well - but had more immunity to whatever it is/was. I would treat all of them with copper and go fallow. Somewhat carefully with the mandarin.

I admittedly don’t test for nutrients. Is it possible the tank is cycling enough to stress this fish out? If so, why are my corals not effected? I have dozens of euphyllia that are acting like nothing has happened. Same with Gonis and some easier sps.

I would test your ammonia and nitrate to determine whether that Is an issue. The fact that Gonis and euphyllia are ok - MAY mean they are ok - but corals also can utilize ammonia - but agree with you this is less likely.

@Jay Hemdal @Humblefish can you help?

I dont think Humblefish is posting on this site - but if you want to ask him a question - I believe he still has his own site.

 

[winxp_man]

@Jay Hemdal @vetteguy53081 @MnFish1

Not to thread jack, but pertaining to ich.... If fish do not show any more signs of it after a month in a DT that had Ich prior but slowly started to disappear. Fish where put back in DT after the fallow period of 70 days, then ich was back. But now as at the beginning stated they do not show any more ich signs. What goes on with ich? Does it die off eventually if fish are fighting it off well?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

@Jay Hemdal @vetteguy53081 @MnFish1

Not to thread jack, but pertaining to ich.... If fish do not show any more signs of it after a month in a DT that had Ich prior but slowly started to disappear. Fish where put back in DT after the fallow period of 70 days, then ich was back. But now as at the beginning stated they do not show any more ich signs. What goes on with ich? Does it die off eventually if fish are fighting it off well?

It can completely die out, at least for all practical purposes….ive had that happen a few times with a long time horizon of years, that indicates it was gone for good. I’ve also had it rebound in a tank for no apparent reason, but that happens in tanks where ich had been seen less than about a year prior.

I wish eDNA sampling wasn’t so expensive - running that over time on a tank where Ich is being managed would tell us the true situation.

 

[MnFish1]

They say - in various papers that Ich can die off in a tank (assuming no more additions) - within 11 -12 life-cycles or about a year or slightly more. Which likely explains most of the success with 'ich management'

 

[AcanSamDC]

UPDATE: Need some more help here. Apologies for the photos. My lights aren't synced to my new wifi so can't modify the blue light at present. Working on it.

The Kole Tang and the Mandrin died four days ago. The Yellow Tang, which did have white spots, is now fully clear and acting normal. The four chromis that were never affected are also normal. But the Cardinal looks terrible today and isn't eating. And the clowns don't look great either but are eating.

The Cardinal I think is going to go today. The three fish I really care about are the Yellow Tang and the two clowns. I do have a 30g breeder hospital tank ready to go. I have never been able to pull a fish through Copper alive though so was really trying to avoid that. At this point though, I have a bad ich infection, right?

A few quick questions questions about symptoms:

-What is the silver thing coming out of the back end of the cardinal? Is the a worm or just a sign of ich

-The cardinal and to a lesser extent the clowns show fin rot. Is that normal with ich? Is it possible this all bacterial, or do I for sure have ich?

-I see some things that suggest velvet, but we're now 14 days in. Everything would be dead if it were velvet, right?

Assuming all the answers above lead to an ich diagnosis, only option it to pull all the fish out and treat in qt? If so, do you think the clown have a shot since they are showing a lot of symptoms?

@Jay Hemdal @vetteguy53081 would love your thoughts and will add better photos?

 

[AcanSamDC]

#fishmedic

 

[vetteguy53081]

UPDATE: Need some more help here. Apologies for the photos. My lights aren't synced to my new wifi so can't modify the blue light at present. Working on it.

The Kole Tang and the Mandrin died four days ago. The Yellow Tang, which did have white spots, is now fully clear and acting normal. The four chromis that were never affected are also normal. But the Cardinal looks terrible today and isn't eating. And the clowns don't look great either but are eating.

The Cardinal I think is going to go today. The three fish I really care about are the Yellow Tang and the two clowns. I do have a 30g breeder hospital tank ready to go. I have never been able to pull a fish through Copper alive though so was really trying to avoid that. At this point though, I have a bad ich infection, right?

A few quick questions questions about symptoms:

-What is the silver thing coming out of the back end of the cardinal? Is the a worm or just a sign of ich

-The cardinal and to a lesser extent the clowns show fin rot. Is that normal with ich? Is it possible this all bacterial, or do I for sure have ich?

-I see some things that suggest velvet, but we're now 14 days in. Everything would be dead if it were velvet, right?

Assuming all the answers above lead to an ich diagnosis, only option it to pull all the fish out and treat in qt? If so, do you think the clown have a shot since they are showing a lot of symptoms?

@Jay Hemdal @vetteguy53081 would love your thoughts and will add better photos?

UNfortunately these pics are way too dark to see anything. All pics please must be under Bright white light intensity - No blue. Prepare the 30 breeder in the meantime
This is what we see:

 

[AcanSamDC]

@vetteguy53081 I am currently resetting all my lights to get photos. Should be soon.

In the meantime, I have Cupramine and a Hannah Copper Tester. My 30g breeder was set-up two years ago with filter media from a copper tank. For the past two years it has been without copper and I store various live rock in it. So should be somewhat stable. Plan is to remove all live rock, add PVC pipes, do a 20% water change, match salinity and temp to clown tank, move them over, and do the first dose with a drip, second dose in 48 hours. If I can catch the cardinal I will throw him in there. Otherwise I assume he is done.

That will leave the yellow tang and the four chromes in a 110g I can't catch them without removing everything. None have symptoms currently. My thought is to get the clowns going asap since I can catch them easy and they have signs.

Does this sound like the right prep while I work on photos?

And what do you recommend for secondary bacterial infections when treating with Cupramine? I will need to go grab that now as my LFS closes in a few hours.

 

[AcanSamDC]

@vetteguy53081 got white lights on the clowns (different tank but same system). The orange female has white spots showing where she is dark. The black male has a part of his white head that has turned clear, some fin rot, and lots of spots. This isn't brook right? Posting a video shortly

 

[vetteguy53081]

@vetteguy53081 I am currently resetting all my lights to get photos. Should be soon.

In the meantime, I have Cupramine and a Hannah Copper Tester. My 30g breeder was set-up two years ago with filter media from a copper tank. For the past two years it has been without copper and I store various live rock in it. So should be somewhat stable. Plan is to remove all live rock, add PVC pipes, do a 20% water change, match salinity and temp to clown tank, move them over, and do the first dose with a drip, second dose in 48 hours. If I can catch the cardinal I will throw him in there. Otherwise I assume he is done.

That will leave the yellow tang and the four chromes in a 110g I can't catch them without removing everything. None have symptoms currently. My thought is to get the clowns going asap since I can catch them easy and they have signs.

Does this sound like the right prep while I work on photos?

And what do you recommend for secondary bacterial infections when treating with Cupramine? I will need to go grab that now as my LFS closes in a few hours.

Do not ramp copper which is an old method and get to level within 24 hours. I recommend cupramine level at .45 as .5 is the max and I assume this is a bare tank and not display, correct?
Bacterial would be seachem Kanaplex but lets see the pics and assure you have bacterial

 

[vetteguy53081]

@vetteguy53081 got white lights on the clowns (different tank but same system). The orange female has white spots showing where she is dark. The black male has a part of his white head that has turned clear, some fin rot, and lots of spots. This isn't brook right? Posting a video shortly

I can see clowns clearly which appear to have ich but also confused with secondary bacterial lesions as ich. Can you get a couple of closeups on the clowns?

 

[AcanSamDC]

Video of Clowns