QT and Fallow Period My Journey

[josephxsxn]

I have decided to try and follow the best practices recommended here go fallow in my display tank. Saddly this means pulling rock out to quickly catch fish and putting the coral encrusted rocks back. Based on my fishes I think that there is ich/velvet in the tank (from recent additions for sure if not already there) along with flukes. Honestly I am more worried i'll lose all my fish in QT then anywhere else as in the past any attempts at QT have never gone well for me...

Question - if the fallow period is 76 days due to ich being in cyst form how do I keep my fish in their QT tank for this entire period? Wouldnt the ich/velvet come off possibly and cyst for over 30 days hence past the 30 day copper treatment (probably going to use seachem product)? I setup an 80 gallon qt tank for this to try and house my tangs in with min stress, but once their treatment is done they will have to wait in it until the fallow period is over.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

So - the fallow period of 76 days is a calculated one, and to be honest, I never heard of it outside of R2R. I used to use 45 days, but it is hard to refute 76 days, since it is longer, and therefore safer. One thing that is true- in all cases, raising the temperature to the highest that won’t harm the inverts will speed the whole process up.
What you are describing is one logic flaw of the fallow process: you leave the DT fishless for 76 days, but the fish themselves have not gone the same length of time disease free (with their 30 day treatment time). Why don’t the ich cysts attack the fish after the copper?
Maintaining tangs in a QT is always a challenge, but with care, you should be able to manage that.
Jay

 

[josephxsxn]

Appreciate the feedback. I'll have to think about how to handle the fact they will remain in here longer then 30 days some more, maybe a dose of metro on the last 30 days before they go back to the tank.

Some photos of prepping.. I had an fx4 job can filter I setup which will make it more simple to put carbon in after and hopfuly build some bactria. Feeding the fish really well this AM before doing this, everyone is still doing good but I can see more dots now appearing on my Powder Brown and a shimmer on the Scopas.

 

[josephxsxn]

Well caught all the fish even the gobies that I thought would be a problem. Things went alot more smooth then I thought but I think it's because we prepped as much as possible and had 3 people helping.

Picked up Cupramine, Metroplex and Prazi at the local fish store. I calculated the hospital volume right around 65g so I plan on adding the initial Cupramine dose of 6.5ml and 7 scoops of metro before doing it again in 48 hours. No prazi for now just for after the copper metro treatment.

 

[rmay6850]

Glad you got everyone out with minimal disruption, looks and sounds like you are well prepared for the process. I am 49 days into the fallow period and will be so glad to get to the other side. If nothing else it will give some peace of mind.

 

[josephxsxn]

Copper test seems sub .2 which I calculated the dose for. After some more reading I think the clay pots my be absorbing the copper and hence the lower result. Tomorrow I'll go to the hardware store and pickup pvc elbows for us and remove the clay pots. It's to bad the fish all preferred the clay pots for sure.

 

[josephxsxn]

Well almost had a catastrophe in the middle of the night. The hoses for the canister filter popped lose and probably 1/3rd of the tank water ended up on the floor and wall... Luckily everyone appears fine other then one of the two gobies who I belive brought the velvet has parished... Still have to go get pvc elbows to replace the clay pots..

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Well almost had a catastrophe in the middle of the night. The hoses for the canister filter popped lose and probably 1/3rd of the tank water ended up on the floor and wall... Luckily everyone appears fine other then one of the two gobies who I belive brought the velvet has parished... Still have to go get pvc elbows to replace the clay pots..

Although I don't typically use red clay pots in marine systems, most modern copper meds are stable and won't be removed by it. I use PVC pipe pieces, as most people do. I tie my together with nylon cord so the pieces don't shift around (fish like a more stable environment). Also, when it comes time to move the fish, I just lift the cord and suddenly, the fish have nowhere to hide!

Be sure you don't use Prime or any other dechor or ammonia remover when using cupramine. I've also heard reports that Cupramine will give false positives on some ammonia tests (but the ammonia alert badge is ok?)

Jay

 

[josephxsxn]

Be sure you don't use Prime or any other dechor or ammonia remover when using cupramine. I've also heard reports that Cupramine will give false positives on some ammonia tests (but the ammonia alert badge is ok?)

Thanks yes the bottle instructs you not to use any ammonia reducers. I rarely have used my jug of prime after moving off city water and onto well water when I moved.

The FAQ for Cupramine says that the ammonia badge and thier test kit won't be effected by this. I bought the badge.

 

[josephxsxn]

Ammonia badge is starting to move into the first alert stage.. Because I am not at therapeutic levels yet I am thinking I should do the water change the easy way again (just drain from the main tank) and refill and then do my second dose today of both Cupramine and Metroplex (they are scheduled for today.) Also went and changed out all the clay pots for pvc, I didn't want to take the risk of them possibly doing anything and the fish seem to have taken just fine to the extra pvc parts.

Been feeding the fish 2 cubes a day of mysis + blood worms (cube each) soaked in Vitamin-M for fishes for a few hours in the fridge. As of last night they are all still eating.

 

[josephxsxn]

Things are going well so far other then needing to keep doing water changes while cycling. No white spots left on the fish but the copper isn't at therapeutic levels yet ethier (maybe the metro?). I had been using the seachem copper test but even with the reference solution I don't know how people could accurately figure out their levels, As such I picked up a Hanna HR Copper checked the 702 which was just delivered today. Probably will do another water change today of about 50%, test coper and redose.

 

[josephxsxn]

Loving the 702 checker, its much easier then any of these color items and I feel alot safer about getting the limits to 0.5ppm.

Done a few more water changes but I think the tank is getting closer and closer to cycling the canister filter as its taking longer and longer now for the badge to go up. Recently got to 0.47ppm copper as per the 702 and have been able to calculate out now that 1ml of cupramine in the QT tank will increase the copper level by about 0.03ppm. Everyone is still eating fine and while I haven't counted each of the 6 pj's it seems like business as normal in the QT tank.

 

[josephxsxn]

Tank has cycled and the badge is now nice and yellow again. Last two copper tests have been .55 (before topoff) and .49 (after topoff) so I am feeling like we are in target range and the timer can start.. Here we come 30 days . This is also week 2 of the 3 week metro treatment that just goes into the water column.

Been trying to think up what to do after the fallow period and QT in the tank to verify its clean. Thinking that I may give the Black Mollies a try in the QT tank after the treatment period is over, and then in both my frag and main display once their fallow period is over.

 

[josephxsxn]

3 week Metro treatment is done tomorrow, copper levels are holding fine between my top offs, todays measurement was 0.51 ppm, 23 more days of copper to go. All fish seem to be going strong still and are eating furiously their vitamin enriched brine or mysis, and have started throwing some nori into the tank from time to time.

Just wondering, is there a reason to do PrasiPro after my copper + metro treatment is done?

 

[Maritimer]

Metro treats Brooklynella and some bacteria. Copper treats protozoans; ich and velvet. Praziquantel (PraziPro) treats flukes, which the other two don't.

~B.

 

[josephxsxn]

Well appears the second yellow line cleaner goby bit the dust, have not seen it in a few days. This was the other goby in the pair that I believe brought the problems to the tank. Curious but of course will never really know why not after being in copper for over a week at therapeutic levels (longer at lower) he went.

 

[josephxsxn]

A clownfish which has been with me for about 3-4 years has disappeared in the QT tank. Could have jumped out and the dog helped it disappear, not sure. I wasn't paying alot of attention the last few days other then feeding the fish and topping off the water. A bit bitter sweet as one of my older but least fav fishes' she killed every mate we ever gave her, now I can get a new bonded pair in the future.

Hopefully can get to the 19th without any more losses which will be 30 days copper.

 

[josephxsxn]

Pretty happy with how things are going, this Sunday the 30 days of copper is over and onto Prazi. So far no more losses of fish and folks are still eating well. Thinking Sunday ill do a huge water change of about 50% and throw carbon (which now I question after the HLLE article but am using pellet carbon.) Made it through a 20 hour power loss too, thank goodness I have a generator.

At what point should I start the Prazi? Should copper be undetectable?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

You can run prazi with some copper. If using prazipro, be sure to increase aeration, breaking the surface tension is important.
Rinse your carbon with RO water first, and remove it once it is done.
Jay

 

[josephxsxn]

Did a WC, and ran a bag of pellet carbon for a couple of days. Just did another WC after removing the Carbon and first dose of PraziPro. Happy to be getting this far, I feel like my Khole tang may have thinned out alittle but is still eating and swiming like all is well.