QT compatibility question

[daniel_mourra]

Hello! @Jay Hemdal @vetteguy53081

I have a small Emperor Angelfish in a 10-gallon quarantine tank with Copper Power at 2.6 ppm (Hanna). I raised copper slowly: 1.5 ppm on day 1, 2.0 on day 2, and 2.6 on day 3 (yesterday).

Today I’m getting:

• 1 very small Flame Angel
• 3 medium Pajama Cardinalfish
• 1 small Niger Triggerfish
• 2 very small Ocellaris Frostbite Clownfish

Question:
Can I add all of them directly into the same QT tank at 2.6 ppm copper? Or should I increase the copper levels slowly for them, as I did for the Emperor?

Note: I’m following the SR QT protocol but extending copper to 30 days instead of 14. The 10-gallon tank has a Seachem ammonia alert badge, an airstone, and ATO. That’s it.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Hello! @Jay Hemdal @vetteguy53081

I have a small Emperor Angelfish in a 10-gallon quarantine tank with Copper Power at 2.6 ppm (Hanna). I raised copper slowly: 1.5 ppm on day 1, 2.0 on day 2, and 2.6 on day 3 (yesterday).

Today I’m getting:

• 1 very small Flame Angel
• 3 medium Pajama Cardinalfish
• 1 small Niger Triggerfish
• 2 very small Ocellaris Frostbite Clownfish

Question:
Can I add all of them directly into the same QT tank at 2.6 ppm copper? Or should I increase the copper levels slowly for them, as I did for the Emperor?

Note: I’m following the SR QT protocol but extending copper to 30 days instead of 14. The 10-gallon tank has a Seachem ammonia alert badge, an airstone, and ATO. That’s it.

Get this copper level to 2.25ppm to allow for testing error. In the future, get right to level and do not ramp up slowly which was an old method with more potent cupramine. That's a lot of fish to stuff into a 10 gallon tank and i suggest adding a 20 long for a treatment tank and adding air stone to both.
Not sure how you are resting copper level but recommend a Hanna brand copper test kit.
Also monitor ammonia level in quarantine with a reliable test kit

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Hello! @Jay Hemdal @vetteguy53081

I have a small Emperor Angelfish in a 10-gallon quarantine tank with Copper Power at 2.6 ppm (Hanna). I raised copper slowly: 1.5 ppm on day 1, 2.0 on day 2, and 2.6 on day 3 (yesterday).

Today I’m getting:

• 1 very small Flame Angel
• 3 medium Pajama Cardinalfish
• 1 small Niger Triggerfish
• 2 very small Ocellaris Frostbite Clownfish

Question:
Can I add all of them directly into the same QT tank at 2.6 ppm copper? Or should I increase the copper levels slowly for them, as I did for the Emperor?

Note: I’m following the SR QT protocol but extending copper to 30 days instead of 14. The 10-gallon tank has a Seachem ammonia alert badge, an airstone, and ATO. That’s it.

I prefer to target 2.25 ppm for copper power or coppersafe.

You can add fish directly to coppersafe or copper power (dealers do that all the time) but I'm REALLY concerned that 8 fish in a 10 gal. is WAY to many. For me, those fish should be quarantined in a minimum of a 20 gal. long tank. I also worry that the flame and the emperor may fight, and so may the two clown unless they were housed together previously.

At the very least, you will need some good biofiltration in that tank, else you may end up needing to perform huge water changes to maintain the ammonia level below dangerous levels. I could see you needing to perform 50% water changes daily with no biofilter.

 

[daniel_mourra]

Due to space constrains I placed them in two sperate tanks (10 gal each) and will monitor amonnia daily with water changes (very eeady ti do that)

Tank A:
Emperor small
Trigger small
2 clowns VERY SMALL

Tank B
3 Pijamas (Medium)
Flame Angel (Extremely small)

If the emperor is at 2.6 pom Cu (Hanna checker) and I lower to 2.25 i wouldnt have to reset the timer right?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Due to space constrains I placed them in two sperate tanks (10 gal each) and will monitor amonnia daily with water changes (very eeady ti do that)

Tank A:
Emperor small
Trigger small
2 clowns VERY SMALL

Tank B
3 Pijamas (Medium)
Flame Angel (Extremely small)

If the emperor is at 2.6 pom Cu (Hanna checker) and I lower to 2.25 i wouldnt have to reset the timer right?

The tanks look large enough now. I'm still really worried about ammonia buildup.....

 

[daniel_mourra]

The tanks look large enough now. I'm still really worried about ammonia buildup.....

Ok… to reduce ammonia i can put some rocks from my established reef tank.

Would copper kill this beneficial bacteria?

My reef has ich? Is it safe to put that in if i have copper in the Qt?

Can a flame angel resist 2.2 ppm of copper? I though they didnt do well on copper

 

[Dom]

Hello! @Jay Hemdal @vetteguy53081

I have a small Emperor Angelfish in a 10-gallon quarantine tank with Copper Power at 2.6 ppm (Hanna). I raised copper slowly: 1.5 ppm on day 1, 2.0 on day 2, and 2.6 on day 3 (yesterday).

Today I’m getting:

• 1 very small Flame Angel
• 3 medium Pajama Cardinalfish
• 1 small Niger Triggerfish
• 2 very small Ocellaris Frostbite Clownfish

Question:
Can I add all of them directly into the same QT tank at 2.6 ppm copper? Or should I increase the copper levels slowly for them, as I did for the Emperor?

Note: I’m following the SR QT protocol but extending copper to 30 days instead of 14. The 10-gallon tank has a Seachem ammonia alert badge, an airstone, and ATO. That’s it.

Once you've begun the QT process with a fish, I would not add more fish. I would finish the QT for the current QT and then start again.

When you add new fish to an existing QT with fish already under treatment, you have to reset the QT clock for any existing fish back to day one.

As I understand it, adding live rock to QT with copper makes it difficult to keep copper at therapeutic levels.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Ok… to reduce ammonia i can put some rocks from my established reef tank.

Would copper kill this beneficial bacteria?

My reef has ich? Is it safe to put that in if i have copper in the Qt?

Can a flame angel resist 2.2 ppm of copper? I though they didnt do well on copper

Copper won’t harm the beneficial bacteria to any great degree.

Established rock is going to absorb some copper though, and taking it from a tank active with ich isn’t a really good idea.

Flame angels are very sensitive to ionic copper treatments, they are less sensitive to amine-chelated copper products, but that’s why 2.2 is a better dose than 2.5+

 

[daniel_mourra]

Copper won’t harm the beneficial bacteria to any great degree.

Established rock is going to absorb some copper though, and taking it from a tank active with ich isn’t a really good idea.

Flame angels are very sensitive to ionic copper treatments, they are less sensitive to amine-chelated copper products, but that’s why 2.2 is a better dose than 2.5+

Ok! Copper power is amine-chelated right? Its not ionic? So based on this thread i can just go directly for 2.2 ppm coppr power usung Hanna? Does the size of the flame angel affect its copper resistance? He is VERY VERY VERY small…. Size of a finger nail.

What about the PJ cardinals? Any concern with those on coppr?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Ok! Copper power is amine-chelated right? Its not ionic? So based on this thread i can just go directly for 2.2 ppm coppr power usung Hanna? Does the size of the flame angel affect its copper resistance? He is VERY VERY VERY small…. Size of a finger nail.

What about the PJ cardinals? Any concern with those on coppr?

Yes, copper power is amine / chelated.

The fish size does matter, there is a much higher surface area to volume ratio on small fish. I’ve never seen a flame angel that small, so I don’t know how it will handle copper.

No issues with cardinal fish and copper.

 

[daniel_mourra]

Yes, copper power is amine / chelated.

The fish size does matter, there is a much higher surface area to volume ratio on small fish. I’ve never seen a flame angel that small, so I don’t know how it will handle copper.

No issues with cardinal fish and copper.

Any guess or recomendation in the flame due to its size? Right now i am at 0.80 pom copper as I want to observe him even below therapeutic levels before reaching 2.2….. i am concerned about his size.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Any guess or recomendation in the flame due to its size? Right now i am at 0.80 pom copper as I want to observe him even below therapeutic levels before reaching 2.2….. i am concerned about his size.

I’d try 2 ppm on it. Any drug you try is going to have that same surface area to volume issue, even hyposalinity.

I don’t think I’ve ever had a flame angel less than 2” long though. You might try posting in the fish forum to see if other people have worked with them that small.

Biota apparently has some captive raised ones from the breeding group in Hawaii. I wonder if the fish you are getting is from them? If it is, and if it doesn’t get tank with wild caught fish along the way, you can consider not quarantining it at all.