QT Protocol Flowchart

[Glasswalker]

Hey, I've been working on revising my intake protocol for new livestock.

Gathered some info from others on these forums, and the wealth of info from @Humblefish and @melypr1985 for example on the topic.

And based on the fact that ich/velvet seem to be running rampant right now, came up with a flowchart for my protocol. Going from the point where I decide "I would like to go looking for a new addition" through to successful completion, and prep for next round. I think I've accommodated most of the standard cases, and the every-day QT protocol. Obviously this isn't meant to be for cases where the fish is symptomatic, or an emergency case, those would require special handling. This is a prophylactic treatment protocol for all incoming fish to catch the most common stuff.

I'd love to hear any feedback/input on this.

I've yet to test this out, but will be using it very soon once my QT is back up and running (prob in next couple weeks). So would love to revise it and nail it down now.

I also plan on flowcharting out a symptomatic treatment protocol, and an emergency protocol as well.

These are mostly for myself, but hoping they can also be a great resource for the community if we can nail them down well enough.

Image is fairly large, so you might need to open it in a new tab, or click to view fullsize to read all text.

Thanks in advance for any feedback/input!



Full screenshot (for downloading or printing) here: https://www.reef2reef.com/attachments/reef-qt-protocol-v3-png.540056/

 

[Steved350]

On the any other symptoms you have no going both directions. I assume one should be yes?

 

[Steved350]

I'm very glad you started this. I was in great need

 

[Glasswalker]

On the any other symptoms you have no going both directions. I assume one should be yes?

DOH! Yup, corrected version uploaded now. Original Post has been updated.

Thanks for the heads up!

 

[Maritimer]

Glasswalker, this is truly excellent stuff!

Thanks for taking the time and putting in the effort - this is going to be very helpful to a lot of folks you've never met . . .

~Bruce

 

[melypr1985]

This is very nice and well thought out! Thank you for taking the time and posting it for our members.

One thing, the blue diamond labeled "symptoms found during QT" should be before the big box labeled "Move to Dt!" simply because you wouldn't want to move a coral to the display before finding/noting problems during QT and treating them. A small thing, but that can make a difference when somebody is following this flow chart exactly.

 

[dealseer]

Looks useful for folks who can get CP.

 

[Glasswalker]

This is very nice and well thought out! Thank you for taking the time and posting it for our members.

One thing, the blue diamond labeled "symptoms found during QT" should be before the big box labeled "Move to Dt!" simply because you wouldn't want to move a coral to the display before finding/noting problems during QT and treating them. A small thing, but that can make a difference when somebody is following this flow chart exactly.

Thanks!

Actually, the intent of that check is only to decide how much sterilization is needed, the fish side of the equation has a symptom check and treatment loop before the move to DT.

But for Coral you are right. My assumption is that beyond a dip, and 72 day QT there isn't much else you can really do with coral. Or is that mistaken? (Also the notes up top right call out that coral is "best effort" not really 100% mainly because for example if you have velvet cysts on the coral hard surfaces, no treatment or qt will solve that for sure, because the swimmers can survive even in fallow due to photosynthesis.

Would you still add additional steps to the coral part? Or perhaps adjust wording on some?

 

[melypr1985]

I guess I misread the intention of that portion of the chart. It seemed to be talking about symptoms regarding the coral that came out of QT, but after reading it again it's referring to if symptoms were found and treated for then the QT needs to be sterilized. Which really the QT of the coral doesn't need that, but the fish QT would. I think I'm talking myself in circles. lol

I do want to say that there are other things to watch for on your corals than just letting them sit there for 76 (should be corrected in chart) days. Coral pests are something you should watch for and most can be treated with coral dips or other methods. Coral QT isn't just to avoid fish parasites and diseases.... it's also to keep coral pests out of the display

 

[Glasswalker]

I guess I misread the intention of that portion of the chart. It seemed to be talking about symptoms regarding the coral that came out of QT, but after reading it again it's referring to if symptoms were found and treated for then the QT needs to be sterilized. Which really the QT of the coral doesn't need that, but the fish QT would. I think I'm talking myself in circles. lol

I do want to say that there are other things to watch for on your corals than just letting them sit there for 76 (should be corrected in chart) days. Coral pests are something you should watch for and most can be treated with coral dips or other methods. Coral QT isn't just to avoid fish parasites and diseases.... it's also to keep coral pests out of the display

Awesome, thanks. Yeah good point, though I do have a dip in there, very good point could be other pests as well... Will have to think how to rearrange that.

Also thanks for catching that period error, will update to right number of days.

I will post back once I've updated the chart.

Thanks! Keep the feedback rolling!

 

[Humblefish]

Very impressive @Glasswalker

May I share this with my local club?

 

[melypr1985]

very good point could be other pests as well...

Hey this is a great chart and will help many people, especially visual people that just need to see it all laid out.

The problem with the one dip is that is often won't kill any eggs on the frag. So subsequent dips may be needed. That's the only real tip that I would add to the chart. I know that it was meant to be basic and all, but that's a pretty important point when talking about coral qt and coral pests. The fish pests are easy to get rid of on corals, the others? Not so much. lol

 

[Glasswalker]

New Image below with several fixes, though I don't have ability to edit my original post anymore... @Humblefish do you have ability to do that?

Looks useful for folks who can get CP.

Definitely, from what I can see CP is definitely preferred treatment, which is why I default to it. But that is one concern is that CP isn't as easily acquired for everyone. So in that case fallback to Copper, or TTM would be suitable as a substitute I'd imagine.

Very impressive @Glasswalker

May I share this with my local club?

Yes of course! Though use the new version as it's improved

Hey this is a great chart and will help many people, especially visual people that just need to see it all laid out.

The problem with the one dip is that is often won't kill any eggs on the frag. So subsequent dips may be needed. That's the only real tip that I would add to the chart. I know that it was meant to be basic and all, but that's a pretty important point when talking about coral qt and coral pests. The fish pests are easy to get rid of on corals, the others? Not so much. lol

No worries at all I appreciate the feedback, you'll notice on the new version I revised to have a check for symptoms/pests and re-treat option for coral, and re-arranged to sterilization bits to make it less prone to mis-interpretation. Also fixed the day count, and a few other things

I'm not easily offended by critical feedback, I'd rather get it right so that it can be a useful resource for the community, and hopefully not lead people to make costly and unfortunate mistakes!

Ok, new image here, if anyone can help me edit the original post I'd gladly do so.

Also I'll be working on one of these for both a symptomatic diagnosis/treatment protocol, and an emergency/salvage protocol as well. Those are less "basic" and will definitely need more feedback. Will post them when they are ready

 

[Humblefish]

New Image below with several fixes, though I don't have ability to edit my original post anymore... @Humblefish do you have ability to do that?

Done

 

[melypr1985]

By the way, the new flow chart is really awesome! Easy to follow and understand. I think it will spark interest and conversations on how to improve or just throwing alternative charts out there too. This could be a fun way to advance our hobby for the newbies.

 

[Glasswalker]

Done

Awesome! Thanks!

By the way, the new flow chart is really awesome! Easy to follow and understand. I think it will spark interest and conversations on how to improve or just throwing alternative charts out there too. This could be a fun way to advance our hobby for the newbies.

Thanks!

Yeah that's what I had hoped, I know there is a TON of great info here on R2R, but I'm a heavy reader/researcher, I absorb info naturally. But in talking to others, and some discussions with my friend who's also a Reefer @sbash (who also helped with working out this protocol). We were thinking this kind of "simple visual reference" type thing is very helpful to newcomers to the hobby.

 

[LuckyPhil]

Great flow chart but also assuming the person does not want to use TTM as this does not require a cycled QT as water, tank and equipment is changed every 72 hours.

 

[Glasswalker]

Great flow chart but also assuming the person does not want to use TTM as this does not require a cycled QT as water, tank and equipment is changed every 72 hours.

This is correct.

In my case TTM is impractical, we have a fairly large QT, and smaller hospital. We could use a jug, or other container for TTM, but it's not ideal. CP is harder to acquire, but (from what I understand) is extremely effective at treating, and relatively low-stress on the fish, excepting of course the counter-indicated species listed.

Also TTM is fairly "high touch" (not good if you may be busy, or called away on travel, etc in the middle of protocol). This protocol may be longer, but also a bit slower more controlled pace, and less "involved", meaning for example if we get a new fish, and a week in I get called away on business travel (which happens frequently on short notice with my job), my wife can easily follow the protocol with the occasional telephone support from me. No way she'd be down with doing TTM

(but I agree to some, TTM is a great solution, it's well documented, proven, and fairly inexpensive easy to do)

This protocol is designed to have a sustained QT, and treatment hospital, which should keep *most* issues even out of the QT. But the stuff that slips through the treatment protocol gets caught in QT, and treated, well before making it to DT. This means occasionally we have to nuke the QT tank, but generally can keep it operational.

For someone with a pair of 10G tanks for QT/Hospital, that should still work, and wouldn't require them to keep the QT operational, as mentioned in my notes you could prime it with bottled bacteria, or filter foam in the sump of DT, to jumpstart a cycle quickly. So no need for it to be constantly established.

Hence this protocol should work in any case where you have 2 tanks to work with. And if CP isn't available, fallback to Copper or TTM is still an option.

At least that was my reasoning in creating it. Not claiming it's the "right" way, or the only way.

I could probably tweak the diagram to be more "agnostic" (ie: leave option open to allow TTM as part of the main protocol, and accomodate that in the various decision points).

Will think on that a bit.

 

[Idoc]

I'm a newbie here and just trying to get a QT system up and ready for when my DT is finished with its cycle in a couple of months. This is very informative and helps visually to understand everything I've been reading. One thing I see recommended a lot on the posts is a Freshwater dip to catch flukes...would that be beneficial in this prophylactic protocol?

 

[ngoodermuth]

I'm a newbie here and just trying to get a QT system up and ready for when my DT is finished with its cycle in a couple of months. This is very informative and helps visually to understand everything I've been reading. One thing I see recommended a lot on the posts is a Freshwater dip to catch flukes...would that be beneficial in this prophylactic protocol?

The PraziPro treatment would address flukes prophylactically, however if you suspect flukes...particularly a heavy infestation or flukes in the eyes; then doing a freshwater dip first to confirm/remove a large portion of the worms is recommended. When PraziPro hits the worms they seize and spasm, which can be very uncomfortable on a heavily afflicted fish.

To the OP, you might consider adding the second PraziPro dose to the chart for clarity. It should be dosed twice, 5-7 days apart.