Quarantines and new tank thoughts

jenreefer

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I know there are many many great threads and articles on QT. For a new reefer, all the chemistry and plumbing alone can be overwhelming. This is even more reason to take it slow and steady and learn as you go. Making chemistry mistakes with one or two fish is less stressful that the same mistake with a tank full of fish and corals. Adding corals should not be done until long after the first volunteer fish have survived all the noob mistakes. Setting up a second small (used from another reefer) tank is easy enough and there is plenty of time to cycle it along with the main tank. You can pick up used equipment for pennies on the dollar.

While keeping a saltwater tank is not as easy as going to the lfs and buying a tank, a bucket of salt and a few really cute fish, it does not have to be daunting either. The advent of the internet with such great sites as reef2reef, where those new to the hobby can go to educate themselves, it has become a whole lot easier. The unfortunate reality of the lfs is that they are there to make money and many employees of such stores are 16 year old high school students in their first job. You can see where this is going. Mix the big box pet center with the 16 year old employee with the brand new hobbyist and you get the makings of an expensive disaster. This leads many aspiring hobbyists to leave the hobby before they even get started. (thus the really cheap used tanks and equipment for sale)

This is where we will start with this discussion of successful reef keeping for the new hobbyist. Before I get started, let me tell you about me. I am a veterinarian from Houston Texas. I got into reef keeping about 20 years ago, when sites like R2R were not available to the hobbyist. I joined my local club and started attending meetings. I was started my first saltwater fish tank like so many others by going to the big box store, buying the tank, the salt in a bucket, and two new fish, all at the same time. I did not know anything about what I was doing and neither did the store employee who helped me with my purchase. My only saving grace is that I bought two yellow tailed damsels who had been living in the less than optimal conditions at the big box store for who knows how long. I got home, mixed the salt water, and in they went. Long story short, they outlived many many other more expensive fish that I tried to keep and failed with. This was through nothing that I did or did not do.

My goal in this thread is to discuss my experiences, mostly bad in the beginning in an effort to explain why those new to the hobby should take a deep breath and slow down. With the huge amounts of money that can be spent (sometimes without even realizing how much you have invested) and the time investments, it is well worth it to decide from the very beginning to (as the engineers say) measure twice and cut once.

Next installment will be a timeline (only my opinion) of when and how to start adding livestock to your new tank.

happy reefing

Jen
 

mcarroll

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#1 reason to me is learning.

Learning takes time.
Learning though experience has consequences.

If you want to maximize your learning so as to not remain a newb for eternity AND you want to minimize consequences, then that means taking your time in a very real way.


To me, this means getting no more than a fish or two.

If your tank still only had those one or two fish (and maybe a coral or two) at the end of the year, and you were sill refining your processes and knowledge – that would be a good thing!

This would mean that had any mistakes been made or accidents happened, you only had the change to kill those few animals rather than the tank-full of animals that 99.99% of other hobbyists start their tanks off with inside the first year. (And you don't have to read the disease or fish forums for very many posts to see how poorly the this turns out.)
 

Brew12

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I really hope this thread takes off and flourishes. It could become exactly what I was looking for several months ago before I started my tank! Thank you for starting this!
 

Paul B

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I want to respond on this thread but Photobucket is down now and I can't post pictures. :(

OK, Photobucket is now working. Just to show some of the medications I used at the beginning of this hobby, here is a page from my Log book 1974.
I killed more fish than Starkist Tuna
 
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Osiel Alvarado

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Who says the QT tank has to be an eye sore. i just got this 10G tank and I built a little stand for it, still workin on it, was hoping to use the bottom part as my live copepod and live planket growing area. I wondering how it would differ from the main tank? Only think I know is no dirt, but other then that? Any tips/ suggestion?
 
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jenreefer

jenreefer

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Who says the QT tank has to be an eye sore. i just got this 10G tank and I built a little stand for it, still workin on it, was hoping to use the bottom part as my live copepod and live planket growing area. I wondering how it would differ from the main tank? Only think I know is no dirt, but other then that? Any tips/ suggestion?
That is awesome. love it. I bought a second hand 10 gallon IM fusion. bare bottom and easy peasy.
 

Diesel

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Thank you @jenreefer for this thread.
We all know that there are tons of this on R2R but it can't be stressed enough to do a QT now days.
I also know where @Paul B is coming from and even that makes sense.
We live in a stressed world as we speak and even our LFS get fish in but want to sell them ASAP and I don't blame them as most of the diseases the fish pick up are from the LFS even though the owner of the store has no clue that it is in his system.
The responsibility as always is by us the hobbyist, do you take the risk or not or go full QT, I'm not talking about ick as that is one of the simplest to fix.
 
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jenreefer

jenreefer

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Thank you @jenreefer for this thread.
We all know that there are tons of this on R2R but it can't be stressed enough to do a QT now days.
I also know where @Paul B is coming from and even that makes sense.
We live in a stressed world as we speak and even our LFS get fish in but want to sell them ASAP and I don't blame them as most of the diseases the fish pick up are from the LFS even though the owner of the store has no clue that it is in his system.
The responsibility as always is by us the hobbyist, do you take the risk or not or go full QT, I'm not talking about ick as that is one of the simplest to fix.
Thanks Diesel. My history has been that I have done just about everything wrong that can be done wrong, and yes, I did manage to keep some fish alive. But now, I believe there is a better way. I do believe that my approach is not better or worse than any other, maybe not even any different than many others.
1. make sure the tank is ready for fish
2. get the healthiest fish I can find and afford, not the cheapest.
3. go through the qt process to have time to get to observe and get to know each fish and make sure it is eating before it is placed in the DT.
4. treat as needed only, not just because. I do deworm everything with prazipro because I assume all fish have parasites. That is just me.
5. I take photos of all new fish while in QT so that later if I notice anything strange, I can compare to how they looked in QT. It is funny how you will see something one day that you did not notice before. BTW, I photograph all new additions to tank for same reason. All new frags get a photo op once they are dipped, acclimated, observed in QT (sometimes it is QT in a box in main tank if I have nowhere to put them. (pros and cons to this)
6. 1-2 weeks in in-tank quarantine/acclimation in acrylic box so I can let other fish get to know them slowly and they are not terrorized on their first day. I also make sure they are eating well here.

Then, and only then do I let them become part of the family. How hard is it to do all this? physically, not hard, mentally, hard. We all want to just throw them in and have it all work out. That used to be my way, and I will say again, I did have some success with this. I do believe the majority of well fed healthy fish can deal with the normal parasites and diseases that might come their way. But I lost a few really great specimens along the way. Would they have survived had I gone the above listed route? who knows? I surely do not, but as I get older, I realize that I am in no hurry to get to the finish line. I am enjoying the process. I feel like I learn sooooo much about each fish as I get to know them one on one. This is my enjoyment now. I have my wish list of a few more additions to my tank, and will not put anything in my tank that I have not thought out. That is just me.

So next post is how to achieve #1 above. how to make your tank ready for fish/corals/inverts and whatever else you want to keep. I will say right now, there are as many ways to achieve this as there are reefers out there. There are a few sure ways to disaster but many more ways to mistakes that slow down the progress and stress out the keeper and sometimes the pocketbook.

Right now I will say this for all new reefers who are about to impulse buy their first fish. STOP. ask yourself the following questions:
1. Is my tank fully cycled? Do I even know what cycled means? If you cannot answer yes to both of these questions, then do not buy any fish or clean up crew yet. Spend the time to read as much as you can find about cycling a tank, ask questions on here so others can help you understand where you are at, and learn how to use test kits to test more than once. One single test for ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates tells you nothing. You need to understand the different stages and what to expect from each number as your tank cycles. Spending the time to get to know your tank and equipment will be invaluable later on.
2. Is all my equipment working like it should be? what happens if the power goes out? is there enough room in my sump for the overflow when the power goes out? When the power comes back on, do all pieces of equipment start up like they should? Have I made sure that all power cords are off the ground, protected from drips/spray and have a drip loop if they are in a spot where water might overflow and hit them?
3. Do I understand my skimmer and how to adjust it as tank demands change?
4. Do I understand my lights, how to adjust them and how to provide the proper lighting as I add livestock and corals to my tank?
5. Do I have a few back up pumps for if a powerhead decides to stop working?
6. Do I know what my water parameters are? what I should be testing for depending on what type of tank I want to have? how to decide what type of livestock my tank will support?
7. Are my tank parameters stable? This means, that my numbers are not fluctuating from day to day, week to week? If your tank is not stable, you are not ready to add livestock. Please realize this has nothing to do with whether your tank is cycled.

Happy reefing.
 

Paul B

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It's like buying a car only different :D

it is exactly opposite but can be as expensive.
a new car usually runs great, smells good, everything functions and there is no maintenance for a while and no leaks. if you are careful, it wont crash. an old car is different.

a new tank has all sorts of problems, can easily crash, sometimes smells or leaks and needs more maintenance than an old, established tank.

i had shoulder operation #5 today. I hope he used some quality toggle bolts and not from home depot. nerve blockers are great so no pain yet, but I know what it feels when it wears off.

but it is a real man pain and not a girly man pain......besides I got plenty of pain pills.

sorry about the typing. its hard to make capitals with one hand
 

Diesel

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it is exactly opposite but can be as expensive.
a new car usually runs great, smells good, everything functions and there is no maintenance for a while and no leaks. if you are careful, it wont crash. an old car is different.

a new tank has all sorts of problems, can easily crash, sometimes smells or leaks and needs more maintenance than an old, established tank.

i had shoulder operation #5 today. I hope he used some quality toggle bolts and not from home depot. nerve blockers are great so no pain yet, but I know what it feels when it wears off.

but it is a real man pain and not a girly man pain......besides I got plenty of pain pills.

sorry about the typing. its hard to make capitals with one hand

It's not only hard my friend but EXTREMLY hard :rolleyes:
So no Home Depot bolds and nuts.......... anything wrong with that :( than again Lowes is great to but I don't know if they are close to your hospital;)
 

Osiel Alvarado

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Thanks Diesel. My history has been that I have done just about everything wrong that can be done wrong, and yes, I did manage to keep some fish alive. But now, I believe there is a better way. I do believe that my approach is not better or worse than any other, maybe not even any different than many others.
1. make sure the tank is ready for fish
2. get the healthiest fish I can find and afford, not the cheapest.
3. go through the qt process to have time to get to observe and get to know each fish and make sure it is eating before it is placed in the DT.
4. treat as needed only, not just because. I do deworm everything with prazipro because I assume all fish have parasites. That is just me.
5. I take photos of all new fish while in QT so that later if I notice anything strange, I can compare to how they looked in QT. It is funny how you will see something one day that you did not notice before. BTW, I photograph all new additions to tank for same reason. All new frags get a photo op once they are dipped, acclimated, observed in QT (sometimes it is QT in a box in main tank if I have nowhere to put them. (pros and cons to this)
6. 1-2 weeks in in-tank quarantine/acclimation in acrylic box so I can let other fish get to know them slowly and they are not terrorized on their first day. I also make sure they are eating well here.

Then, and only then do I let them become part of the family. How hard is it to do all this? physically, not hard, mentally, hard. We all want to just throw them in and have it all work out. That used to be my way, and I will say again, I did have some success with this. I do believe the majority of well fed healthy fish can deal with the normal parasites and diseases that might come their way. But I lost a few really great specimens along the way. Would they have survived had I gone the above listed route? who knows? I surely do not, but as I get older, I realize that I am in no hurry to get to the finish line. I am enjoying the process. I feel like I learn sooooo much about each fish as I get to know them one on one. This is my enjoyment now. I have my wish list of a few more additions to my tank, and will not put anything in my tank that I have not thought out. That is just me.

So next post is how to achieve #1 above. how to make your tank ready for fish/corals/inverts and whatever else you want to keep. I will say right now, there are as many ways to achieve this as there are reefers out there. There are a few sure ways to disaster but many more ways to mistakes that slow down the progress and stress out the keeper and sometimes the pocketbook.

Right now I will say this for all new reefers who are about to impulse buy their first fish. STOP. ask yourself the following questions:
1. Is my tank fully cycled? Do I even know what cycled means? If you cannot answer yes to both of these questions, then do not buy any fish or clean up crew yet. Spend the time to read as much as you can find about cycling a tank, ask questions on here so others can help you understand where you are at, and learn how to use test kits to test more than once. One single test for ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates tells you nothing. You need to understand the different stages and what to expect from each number as your tank cycles. Spending the time to get to know your tank and equipment will be invaluable later on.
2. Is all my equipment working like it should be? what happens if the power goes out? is there enough room in my sump for the overflow when the power goes out? When the power comes back on, do all pieces of equipment start up like they should? Have I made sure that all power cords are off the ground, protected from drips/spray and have a drip loop if they are in a spot where water might overflow and hit them?
3. Do I understand my skimmer and how to adjust it as tank demands change?
4. Do I understand my lights, how to adjust them and how to provide the proper lighting as I add livestock and corals to my tank?
5. Do I have a few back up pumps for if a powerhead decides to stop working?
6. Do I know what my water parameters are? what I should be testing for depending on what type of tank I want to have? how to decide what type of livestock my tank will support?
7. Are my tank parameters stable? This means, that my numbers are not fluctuating from day to day, week to week? If your tank is not stable, you are not ready to add livestock. Please realize this has nothing to do with whether your tank is cycled.

Happy reefing.


Id like to thank you also :). Today me and my gf which have just bought a new tank and are new at reefing where at our local reef store and another customer kinda laughed when I said i had made a quarantine tank. Honestly it really didn't bother me because i thought of your thread, i rather it be done right the first time. I've found that quarantine lets me enjoy the fish and their little personalities before they go get lost in the main 140g tank.
One more thing the customer and the employee thought i was silly for wanting to quarantine corals. Is that a thing also? Or just fish? I wanted to add a little Kiessel (129 on Amazon) so I can qt corals, but is that even needed? I have regular tiny LED's in my 10g quarantine but idk if i could qt a coral properly. Anyone have any thoughts on that? Thank you again :).
 

Brew12

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Id like to thank you also :). Today me and my gf which have just bought a new tank and are new at reefing where at our local reef store and another customer kinda laughed when I said i had made a quarantine tank. Honestly it really didn't bother me because i thought of your thread, i rather it be done right the first time. I've found that quarantine lets me enjoy the fish and their little personalities before they go get lost in the main 140g tank.
One more thing the customer and the employee thought i was silly for wanting to quarantine corals. Is that a thing also? Or just fish? I wanted to add a little Kiessel (129 on Amazon) so I can qt corals, but is that even needed? I have regular tiny LED's in my 10g quarantine but idk if i could qt a coral properly. Anyone have any thoughts on that? Thank you again :).
Believe it or not, corals should be quarantined longer than fish to do it properly. Done correctly, a fish can be quarantined in under 3 weeks. To properly quarantine a coral takes 76 days. They may be snickering now, but the first time they get velvet in their system and have their tanks wiped out those snickers will be tears.
 

Osiel Alvarado

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Believe it or not, corals should be quarantined longer than fish to do it properly. Done correctly, a fish can be quarantined in under 3 weeks. To properly quarantine a coral takes 76 days. They may be snickering now, but the first time they get velvet in their system and have their tanks wiped out those snickers will be tears.
Does a coral in quarantine need a good light also?
 
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jenreefer

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One coral with parasites can wipe years of work and $. You also need to be dipping all corals in your choice of pesticide to aid in eliminating the bad stuff that loves to come in on frags and plugs. I use Bayer complete, but there are several coral dips on the market that are safer to use if you are not comfortable with using the Bayer. I use it on everything and honestly have never had a loss from using it. There are many good write-ups on how to use it. Just google coral dip with Bayer and they will pop up.
 

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