Question regarding Treatment (Fish only Display Tank)

[Gondeep11]

Hello all, #fishmedic

Quick question, I have a fish only tank that will always be this way. I will never have any coral in this display.
I have noticed a few of my fish Darting in the sand and scratching on rocks. I want to get ahead of this before it becomes more of an issue. A few quick questions, just want to make sure I am correct before proceeding. The only visible signs of anything are pictured here on the kliens butterfly fins ... I do not see spots anywhere, but hell my eyes are not what they used to be...

First, water parameters are all perfect so lets get that out of the way. 1.025sg
Sand Bottom, Live Rock 90 Gallon water volume
The current fish in the tank are as follows:
Midas Blenny
Diamond Goby
Naso Tang
Atlantic Blue tang
Convict Tang
Undulated Trigger
Kliens butterfly
Melanurus Wrasse
Cleaner Wrasse
Snowflake Eel
2 Clowns
1 bubbletip
clean up crew = sand sifting star, 2 conch, a bunch of hermits and snails. I can pull all of these including the bubble-tip.
I have multiple tanks to place them in.

I want to treat with Copper Power, I will slowly raise levels from 1.0 to 2.5 over 2-3 days.
Does anyone see any issue with treating right in the display? I will turn off carbon and after treatment
use cuprisorb when treatment is complete. I have multiple QT tanks ranging from 10,20,24,60 gallons, up and running, just didn't want to pull fish if not necessary.

Any suggestions or advice appreciated! Not seeing white spots on the body of any fish has me stumped so I'm not sure what I'm dealing with, other than the Kliens fins, If copper is not the first med to reach for, please let me know, I have most everything including Formalin, but have never used it.

Thanks in advance, Pete

 

[angelsandtangs]

I treated my 400 system with copper power at 2.5 with no issues I have over 300 pounds of rock .. if took me almost twice the amount to get to the right levels .. I tested twice a day using a Hanna test kit .. after a full month at 2.5 I started to remove copper using cuprisorb along with water changes it took me about 2 months to get levels to zero this was a over a year ago .. all fish recovered from hlle due to copper and I still test for copper after each water change and levels still at zero so no leaching .. you can pm me if you have any questions .. most will not agree with what I did but after losing fish to velvet than getting ick and flukes a was tired of fighting it .. I also tried hypo for 3 months and 7 days after ick came back .. I used 3 different testers and calibrated every other day to keep levels at 1.009 .. I’m 100% ick free now and qt every fish before adding myself .. fyi my ick came from a fully qt fish I bought online .. but how do you prove it ? So now I trust no one

 

[angelsandtangs]

My fowlr

 

[AydenLincoln]

I have dosed a variety of meds in my fowlr tank. Big fan of fowlr tanks since you can treat in tank and if you need to remove the meds you just add carbon or say cooper remover and do multiple water changes. I won’t give you a positive disease idea that’s best left up to others more versed in the field but I will say if you want to medicate in that tank you should…since it’s less stressful on the fish and can be effective and safe if done properly.

 

[sc50964]

Eels don’t handle copper well so you will need to rehome it. Nem certainly can’t be there with copper so that must go as well.

 

[Gondeep11]

My fowlr

Will PM you for sure! Thanks !

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Hello all, #fishmedic

Quick question, I have a fish only tank that will always be this way. I will never have any coral in this display.
I have noticed a few of my fish Darting in the sand and scratching on rocks. I want to get ahead of this before it becomes more of an issue. A few quick questions, just want to make sure I am correct before proceeding. The only visible signs of anything are pictured here on the kliens butterfly fins ... I do not see spots anywhere, but hell my eyes are not what they used to be...

First, water parameters are all perfect so lets get that out of the way. 1.025sg
Sand Bottom, Live Rock 90 Gallon water volume
The current fish in the tank are as follows:
Midas Blenny
Diamond Goby
Naso Tang
Atlantic Blue tang
Convict Tang
Undulated Trigger
Kliens butterfly
Melanurus Wrasse
Cleaner Wrasse
Snowflake Eel
2 Clowns
1 bubbletip
clean up crew = sand sifting star, 2 conch, a bunch of hermits and snails. I can pull all of these including the bubble-tip.
I have multiple tanks to place them in.

I want to treat with Copper Power, I will slowly raise levels from 1.0 to 2.5 over 2-3 days.
Does anyone see any issue with treating right in the display? I will turn off carbon and after treatment
use cuprisorb when treatment is complete. I have multiple QT tanks ranging from 10,20,24,60 gallons, up and running, just didn't want to pull fish if not necessary.

Any suggestions or advice appreciated! Not seeing white spots on the body of any fish has me stumped so I'm not sure what I'm dealing with, other than the Kliens fins, If copper is not the first med to reach for, please let me know, I have most everything including Formalin, but have never used it.

Thanks in advance, Pete

Since the issue here may not be ich, but more likely flukes, I think you have two options: Praziquantel with the invertebrates in place, or hyposalinity after moving the invertebrates. Personally, I think hypo is more effective, and has the added benefit of controlling ich as well.

Hyposalinity

Hyposalinity Jay Hemdal 2021 This term refers to a long-term bath treatment for marine fishes in which the salt content of the water is lowered and held below the point that certain parasites can survive. The salt level reached, and the time of the treatment are the two variables...

www.reef2reef.com

Jay

 

[Gondeep11]

Good Afternoon, #fishmedic

Well I can't believe this, over night I lost one of the clowns and the Kliens, both were eating yesterday. Aside from scratching, and I did notice some heavy breathing. As a precaution, I pulled the other clown which appeared to have a spot or two (Not sure if it was sand) and he's ramping up in copper (Currently 1.80) need to get him to therapeutic levels.
I am now torn, the beauty of this tank is fish should be very easy to catch without much stress. I will take a video of the tank, not sure what approach is best... Maybe someone can see something that I am Missing... I just ordered Praziquantel, I will have it in the morning, I also have API general cure on hand FYI. This was a Frag tank that I converted to a fish only tank, so very easy access. Looking for some direction.. Sorry about the video quality, camera kept focusing in and out and the fish were not cooperating!

CLICK HERE For VIDEOS

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Good Afternoon, #fishmedic

Well I can't believe this, over night I lost one of the clowns and the Kliens, both were eating yesterday. Aside from scratching, and I did notice some heavy breathing. As a precaution, I pulled the other clown which appeared to have a spot or two (Not sure if it was sand) and he's ramping up in copper (Currently 1.80) need to get him to therapeutic levels.
I am now torn, the beauty of this tank is fish should be very easy to catch without much stress. I will take a video of the tank, not sure what approach is best... Maybe someone can see something that I am Missing... I just ordered Praziquantel, I will have it in the morning, I also have API general cure on hand FYI. This was a Frag tank that I converted to a fish only tank, so very easy access. Looking for some direction.. Sorry about the video quality, camera kept focusing in and out and the fish were not cooperating!

CLICK HERE For VIDEOS

The videos were pretty pixelated - but the fish seem breathing really fast.
Flukes typically don’t kill multiple fish overnight like that. I’m worried they either have really severe flukes or they have velvet.
You talked about using copper in your display, but then about moving a clown out and treating with copper - I wasn’t sure of the status.
I think you need to hit these fish with copper and prazi ASAP - once fish loss starts, it is just going to get worse….

Jay

 

[Gondeep11]

@Jay Hemdal

The videos were pretty pixelated - but the fish seem breathing really fast.
Flukes typically don’t kill multiple fish overnight like that. I’m worried they either have really severe flukes or they have velvet.
You talked about using copper in your display, but then about moving a clown out and treating with copper - I wasn’t sure of the status.
I think you need to hit these fish with copper and prazi ASAP - once fish loss starts, it is just going to get worse….

Jay

Jay, sorry for the confusion. I only moved the clown to my QT, since I was waiting for replies on the best course of action. Normally I would have ramped up copper over 48hrs but decided to just go at 2.50, the clown appears to be doing better, Just actually ate a bit. I know copper power is useless for flukes, he seems to be stable in the copper, do you recommend I try General cure while dosing copper? Or can I use Praziquantel with copper at the same time? Not to muddy the waters, I started 3 days ago dosing Peroxide according to the dosing recommendations in the display tank when the first signs of scratching came about... Just giving the complete picture on what has transpired... I will have the Praziquantel mid morning, I also have Prazipro on hand, depending on what you think... My gut is now telling me ick or velvet , but what do I know?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

@Jay Hemdal


Jay, sorry for the confusion. I only moved the clown to my QT, since I was waiting for replies on the best course of action. Normally I would have ramped up copper over 48hrs but decided to just go at 2.50, the clown appears to be doing better, Just actually ate a bit. I know copper power is useless for flukes, he seems to be stable in the copper, do you recommend I try General cure while dosing copper? Or can I use Praziquantel with copper at the same time? Not to muddy the waters, I started 3 days ago dosing Peroxide according to the dosing recommendations in the display tank when the first signs of scratching came about... Just giving the complete picture on what has transpired... I will have the Praziquantel mid morning, I also have Prazipro on hand, depending on what you think... My gut is now telling me ick or velvet , but what do I know?

If the clown improved with copper, that empirically points to it being a protozoan (velvet), not flukes. However, did you dip the clown during the move over? People do that a lot and that could have knocked back any flukes enough for the fish to feel better.

The eel is likely to go off feed during copper, but they can get velvet, so need to be treated. It could die if it isn't in good shape at the start.

Peroxide - where do I start? It has become the new "wonder drug" but that is based on a paper where it was used as a dip at 75 to 150 ppm to treat velvet in Pacific Threadfins, where the fish were moved to fresh tanks after the dip. Somebody read that paper and developed a low dose treatment as an "experiment". People saw that and began calling it a "regular treatment". Trouble is, it has no references behind it. Peroxide is just an oxidizer, it reacts the same on parasites as ozone or even chlorine. The level of oxidizer needed to kill parasites is very close to that which will harm fish. Because I wanted to keep an open mind and learn a bit more about it, I did some bench-testing. That is reported here:

Hydrogen Peroxide Bench-testing

Bench testing of the effects of hydrogen peroxide in aquariums.

www.reef2reef.com

Jay

 

[Gondeep11]

@Jay Hemdal Thank you! Great article, I have to say I was really wanting to believe the Peroxide was the cure all. After reading more, it seems to hold less weight than I was hoping for. I lost the clown that I put in QT overnight, decided to dose Prazipro in the DT yesterday. All fish appear to be breathing heavy, I haven't checked on them since last night, I will head out to check on them in a few hours. Not looking forward to what I find... Hopefully if it is Flukes, the Prazi will help.... Thank you again for the insight. Pete