Quick Apex Question

[srobertb]

Here we go….

I have a large water reservoir in my a garage that connects to a high flow peristaltic pump which serves as my ATO. It fails around every 6-8 months and I need to replace it. Mostly it’s the tubing in the pump and good maintenance alleviates it being an issue.

A week ago I had a push-to-connect 90 crack in an odd place. This was upsetting.

So…I have replaced the elbow. I also installed a 1/4” solenoid (Neptune) before and after the pump. The solenoids function together on an outlet and the pump functions on its own.

I Have an Apex leak sensor below it (along with a smarthome one). I’ve set it up so if the Apex detects water, it turns off the ATO and closes the solenoids (by cutting power). This worked well during testing.

I’ll be adding a second independent peristaltic pump and set of solenoids so if in the future something happens to one pump, I can shut it down (turn the leaking pump off, close its solenoids, reassign the backup to the ATO, open its Solenoids).

Hopefully that makes sense and if someone can improve on it, I’m happy to hear your thoughts. I’m running 2 solenoids off a 24v 5A power brick since purchasing 2, 1Link modules for 4, 24v outlets seems silly when I have lots of room on my EB8.

So….my main question: I want to program it so that if my Solenoids are off, the ATO also turns off. I tried:

If ATO_Solenoids off Then off

under advanced programming for the ATO

this gives me a “you can’t do that.” Any ideas or help on how I can link these two devices? If I’m doing maintenance and the solenoids are closed the high pressure peristaltic pump could burn itself out (or pop a fitting). I have a bad habit of turning things off/on and forgetting.

Thanks in advance.

 

[ZombieEngineer]

If Output SolenoidName = OFF Then OFF

Is the proper syntax.


With that said, I think you are overcomplicating this. If the issue is your peristaltic pump fails in such a way that it siphon from your garage reservoir, it would make more sense to just use a mechanical float valve as a failsafe and a high sump float switch or optical sensor to let you know when it's high.

 

[srobertb]

If Output SolenoidName = OFF Then OFF

Is the proper syntax.


With that said, I think you are overcomplicating this. If the issue is your peristaltic pump fails in such a way that it siphon from your garage reservoir, it would make more sense to just use a mechanical float valve as a failsafe and a high sump float switch or optical sensor to let you know when it's high.

Thanks. The pump is connected to the spigot output on a 50g barrel (at the bottom). So it will basically dump the 50gallons of water on the floor. There is a back siphon but that’s just the water in the 60’ run of tube that will leak.

I want to be able to automatically switch to a backup pump if the first one fails remotely. So I need the second solenoid after the pump or Id have to run another 60’ of tubing under my house.

here’s the error I get:

//Error: line 4 - Valid keywords following If are Temp, pH, ORP, DO, Cond, Salt, Par, Feed, SwX, FLx, Error, Power, Sun, or Moon // If ATO_SOL1 = OFF Then OFF

 

[ZombieEngineer]

You are missing the word output

 

[srobertb]

You are missing the word output

That did it. Thanks. Appreciate ya.

 

[gbroadbridge]

Here we go….

I have a large water reservoir in my a garage that connects to a high flow peristaltic pump which serves as my ATO. It fails around every 6-8 months and I need to replace it. Mostly it’s the tubing in the pump and good maintenance alleviates it being an issue.

A week ago I had a push-to-connect 90 crack in an odd place. This was upsetting.

So…I have replaced the elbow. I also installed a 1/4” solenoid (Neptune) before and after the pump. The solenoids function together on an outlet and the pump functions on its own.

I Have an Apex leak sensor below it (along with a smarthome one). I’ve set it up so if the Apex detects water, it turns off the ATO and closes the solenoids (by cutting power). This worked well during testing.

I’ll be adding a second independent peristaltic pump and set of solenoids so if in the future something happens to one pump, I can shut it down (turn the leaking pump off, close its solenoids, reassign the backup to the ATO, open its Solenoids).

Hopefully that makes sense and if someone can improve on it, I’m happy to hear your thoughts. I’m running 2 solenoids off a 24v 5A power brick since purchasing 2, 1Link modules for 4, 24v outlets seems silly when I have lots of room on my EB8.

So….my main question: I want to program it so that if my Solenoids are off, the ATO also turns off. I tried:

If ATO_Solenoids off Then off

under advanced programming for the ATO

this gives me a “you can’t do that.” Any ideas or help on how I can link these two devices? If I’m doing maintenance and the solenoids are closed the high pressure peristaltic pump could burn itself out (or pop a fitting). I have a bad habit of turning things off/on and forgetting.

Thanks in advance.

Have you checked that the leak sensor will actually detect RODI water?

Most leak sensors measure conductivity, and pure water is not conductive.

 

[ZombieEngineer]

Have you checked that the leak sensor will actually detect RODI water?

Most leak sensors measure conductivity, and pure water is not conductive.

Neptune leak sensors work with rodi.

 

[gbroadbridge]

Neptune leak sensors work with rodi.

I run GHL with home made leak sensors

How do the apex ones work?

Their are no charge carriers in deionsed water so it cant be conductivity based.

Just interested.

 

[gbroadbridge]

Neptune leak sensors work with rodi.

Don't worry.

I see on the BRS site that they are optical.

Maybe time to rethink my own leak sensors as that is much betterer.

 

[ZombieEngineer]

Don't worry.

I see on the BRS site that they are optical.

Maybe time to rethink my own leak sensors as that is much betterer.

Even the old conductivity ones worked in rodi. They were ridiculously sensitive to the point that if you put them in your cabinet on a waterproof sensor, they would go off when there wasn't a leak unless you put them on a paper towel.

 

[gbroadbridge]

If a conductivity sensor worked with RODI, there is something wrong with the RODI water

RODI water has zero conductance

 

[ZombieEngineer]

If a conductivity sensor worked with RODI, there is something wrong with the RODI water

RODI water has zero conductance

That is incorrect. RODI has pretty low conductance, not zero. Most of the time your RODI is not pure enough to make the old version fail to trigger and even if it was, the dirt on your floor is enough to get it to trigger. Most people who actually measure their RODI barrel are surprised to see the value over 10ppm even though their rodi output reads 0 from things like dust in the air, insects, saltwater from common mixing pump etc. Only takes 1.9 grams of foreign material in a 50 gallon drum to get to 10ppm, which is like 1/8 teaspoon of dirt/salt/insect carcass.

 

[gbroadbridge]

That is incorrect. RODI has pretty low conductance, not zero. Most of the time your RODI is not pure enough to make the old version fail to trigger and even if it was, the dirt on your floor is enough to get it to trigger. Most people who actually measure their RODI barrel are surprised to see the value over 10ppm even though their rodi output reads 0 from things like dust in the air, insects, saltwater from common mixing pump etc. Only takes 1.9 grams of foreign material in a 50 gallon drum to get to 10ppm, which is like 1/8 teaspoon of dirt/salt/insect carcass.

I can send you a link to my thesis which discusses this issue.

You are correct in stating that most RODI is not 'pure' enough to limit conductivity to zero.

However from an engineering standpoint, relying on 'dirt on the floor' or possible impurities in the RODI are not acceptable.

You must always assume that the conductivity is zero as that is the determining factor in designing a robust and reliable fail safe control system.

Especially if you are hoping to stop a big problem with overflowing water.