Radion/MH Reassurance Needed

[Wrangy]

Alrighty, so I need some reassurance/guidance/confirmation of some thoughts and plans I have for lighting upgrades.
My tank is 39x24x18" and is completely sps dominated and will continue to be so. The current lighting setup I run is a bit of a mess that I want to tidy and sort out, this is what's currently running:
- 1x 250w Radium MH
- 4x 24w T5's (2 of each Giesemann actinic plus and lagoon blue)
- 1x 36" sBar Actinic led strip

Now, there's nothing actually wrong with my current setup and it grows and colours acro's very nicely but I want to simplify and get some more led action going as the light unit heats up the apartment pretty well! (I also LOVE blue light haha)

My thoughts at the moment are to do delete the whole lot and run with one of the following options:
- 2x XR30 G4 Pro's + 1x 250w Radium
- 2x XR30 G4 Pro's
- 3x XR30 G4 Pro's (this option definitely would be the end game result)

My real issue is my love for the Radium MH, I'm really uncertain about letting this beauty go and moving to purely LED (I've run led only in the past so it's not an anti-LED sentiment). I guess what I'm saying is I need some reassurance on the decision to dump it all for Radions lol

 

[DesertReefT4r]

2 XR30 Gen4 Pro or non Pro I think would be great for your tank size and sps corals. If i could skip on my mortgage for 2.5 months I would get 2 XR30 Pro units for my tank. Many many highly experienced reefers like Sanjay and Mike P. just to name 2, are having awesome results with the Radion lights. There is no question they work and grow even sps ever well. The AB+ program seems to be that sweet spot and replicates 15-20k Radium and Phoenix like blue.
I am a MH user and have been running 250w Phoenix or 20K Coralife bulbs for a long time, still on the femce and researching LED.

 

[Clownfish2]

I own 3 Radion XR15 and love them. Got 2 over a mixed reef on the AB+ program and 1 over a coral QT/frag tank.

 

[bubbaque]

If your only option that you'd consider for led is radion, I'd go with two. You should check out the video brs did on the Orphek Atlantik V4's. They seem like very good leds.

 

[ndrwater]

I switched from MH/T5 about 2 years ago now and am glad I did. Not only is the heat much less, but so is the electric bill.
Couple of things I did notice. I had a color shift in a couple of wild Aussie SPS colonies that I had had for a couple of years. For the better I might add. I also noticed the growth pattern on a few other corals shift from long and leggy to much denser compact form. I love the color of the AB+ program and run it stock for 12 hours a day. The shimmer from the Radions isn't quite what MH is, but still darn good. The difference in the pop on the corals definitely makes up for the different shimmer. I run 5 G3 Pros running front to back on my standard dim 240 with the lights roughly 8" apart and have no real issue with shadowing.
All in all, I would say the Radions are definitely one of my best purchases I have made equipment wise.

 

[Wrangy]

2 XR30 Gen4 Pro or non Pro I think would be great for your tank size and sps corals. If i could skip on my mortgage for 2.5 months I would get 2 XR30 Pro units for my tank. Many many highly experienced reefers like Sanjay and Mike P. just to name 2, are having awesome results with the Radion lights. There is no question they work and grow even sps ever well. The AB+ program seems to be that sweet spot and replicates 15-20k Radium and Phoenix like blue.
I am a MH user and have been running 250w Phoenix or 20K Coralife bulbs for a long time, still on the femce and researching LED.

It'll definitely be a pro for the extra spectrum breadth It's not that I'm worried about the Radion LED's, I know they're an amazing light and see great success. I'm having a hard time with the thought of letting my halide go haha

I own 3 Radion XR15 and love them. Got 2 over a mixed reef on the AB+ program and 1 over a coral QT/frag tank.

Awesome

If your only option that you'd consider for led is radion, I'd go with two. You should check out the video brs did on the Orphek Atlantik V4's. They seem like very good leds.

I've had a look at the Atlantik's but given that my powerheads and return are Ecotech already lol I may as well continue the trend! Besides Ecotech has more presence and availability here in Aus which is why they win lol

I switched from MH/T5 about 2 years ago now and am glad I did. Not only is the heat much less, but so is the electric bill.
Couple of things I did notice. I had a color shift in a couple of wild Aussie SPS colonies that I had had for a couple of years. For the better I might add. I also noticed the growth pattern on a few other corals shift from long and leggy to much denser compact form. I love the color of the AB+ program and run it stock for 12 hours a day. The shimmer from the Radions isn't quite what MH is, but still darn good. The difference in the pop on the corals definitely makes up for the different shimmer. I run 5 G3 Pros running front to back on my standard dim 240 with the lights roughly 8" apart and have no real issue with shadowing.
All in all, I would say the Radions are definitely one of my best purchases I have made equipment wise.

The electricity bill doesn't worry me as I'll be running a similar amount of power in the Radions to get what I want from them but the heat will be a big difference in the tank room along with the evaporation rate.
I'll definitely be running the AB+ program with a little more blue on the tail end for my viewing times after work though. The plan is to pretty much cover the tank with them so I have very little shading and I won't be using the diffuser to start with. I'll probably mount them around 12" off the water to begin with and use a par meter to match the outputs during the swap and acclimatise up from there

 

[Breadman03]

I greatly prefer the look of my MH over my Radions without the diffuser, but installing the diffusers eliminates the disco effect and makes the lighting look very similar to the MH.

 

[madweazl]

What K MH are you running right now? The AB+ provides a very blue look (too blue for my preference but I like about a 14k look); Ecotech software indicates 18.5k for the AB+ profile.

 

[jda]

Don't do it. For the people who know what Radium can do, they never seem to be satisfied unless there is some overarching princile that they care about more (like retail store switching to sell more units, or like to impress people with thunderstorms). There is all kinds of stuff out there if you sort through he fanbodydom and find real experiences about people who switch - for example, people look at Dr. Joshi's tank and see a nice tank (and it is), but the forget about all of the millepora that he lost and the many colonies that died when he switched... he has chosen to live with these issues, but his tank was not what is was... it was better when he ran the Halides and he will tell you as much. Schnitzel has a great thread on leaving Radions and getting better results - it should be near the top of the SPS forum. I guess that my main caution would be to expect your tank to be different, and a ceiling of about 75-80% of the ceiling that you have now - if you like something else about the Radions that overcomes this lower ceiling, then that is a great reason to have them... but don't get mad if color changes, stuff starts to die from the bottom up and your tank is still not the same.

If you do decide to do it, keep your current setup for at least a year. Chances are that you will be putting it back on in some capacity - while it will not be able to grow back the shadowing underside death that is sure to come (if you have colonies), it can get you mostly back to where you were.

 

[bubbaque]

Don't do it. For the people who know what Radium can do, they never seem to be satisfied unless there is some overarching princile that they care about more (like retail store switching to sell more units, or like to impress people with thunderstorms). There is all kinds of stuff out there if you sort through he fanbodydom and find real experiences about people who switch - for example, people look at Dr. Joshi's tank and see a nice tank (and it is), but the forget about all of the millepora that he lost and the many colonies that died when he switched... he has chosen to live with these issues, but his tank was not what is was... it was better when he ran the Halides and he will tell you as much. Schnitzel has a great thread on leaving Radions and getting better results - it should be near the top of the SPS forum. I guess that my main caution would be to expect your tank to be different, and a ceiling of about 75-80% of the ceiling that you have now - if you like something else about the Radions that overcomes this lower ceiling, then that is a great reason to have them... but don't get mad if color changes, stuff starts to die from the bottom up and your tank is still not the same.

If you do decide to do it, keep your current setup for at least a year. Chances are that you will be putting it back on in some capacity - while it will not be able to grow back the shadowing underside death that is sure to come (if you have colonies), it can get you mostly back to where you were.

Is there a place I can read about Sanjays issues he had when he switched? I've only ever used t5's but was thinking about setting up a frag tank with led. I'd be interested to read his struggles before I do it.

 

[mcarroll]

If you're already sold on the brand then it'll probably make you happy on lights.

Not sure about Radium comparisons though...you should temper any expectations IMO and prolly lean toward sticking with what works.

Build a canopy if you want a neater look.

 

[madweazl]

Is there a place I can read about Sanjays issues he had when he switched? I've only ever used t5's but was thinking about setting up a frag tank with led. I'd be interested to read his struggles before I do it.

You can find an article here but it doesn't support JDAs comments regarding the crash or negative affects of the lighting change.

 

[dutch27]

I wouldn't do it. When I had LED over SPS I found the color wasn't as good as when I've run T5/halide in the past, and the shading issue was a real thing. Anything under the branches was shaded and had no color. If you want to move to LED, I'd consider LED with some T5 supplement. I haven't run that combo, but it seems like a good middle ground.

 

[bubbaque]

You can find an article here but it doesn't support JDAs comments regarding the crash or negative affects of the lighting change.

Thanks! I watch the videos he and Mike Paletta put out and the only negative I seen Sanjay mention was that his yellows are not quit as yellow.

 

[madweazl]

Thanks! I watch the videos he and Mike Paletta put out and the only negative I seen Sanjay mention was that his yellows are not quit as yellow.

I think it was Mike Paletta that did an interview with him where they went more in depth regarding his setup but I cant seem to find it now. It was a good read and covered his decisions to run higher PAR, nutrients, and flow.

 

[bubbaque]

I think it was Mike Paletta that did an interview with him where they went more in depth regarding his setup but I cant seem to find it now. It was a good read and covered his decisions to run higher PAR, nutrients, and flow.

Thanks for the article. I just read it and Sanjay said "I never had any issues at all" when switching to led. He mentioned he got better growth on some corals when he did.

 

[gcarroll]

I still can't beleive just how many people still believe that Radions are not a good lighting choice. The bottom line is that they work with many documented successes! I have alwayys used MH in the past but after 3 months of using a Radion on the new tank, I would not even consider going back. I have been more than happy with the progress so far. I will admit, it does seem to take corals a lil longer for corals to acclimate to the light but once they do, they take off.

Don't do it. For the people who know what Radium can do, they never seem to be satisfied unless there is some overarching princile that they care about more (like retail store switching to sell more units, or like to impress people with thunderstorms). There is all kinds of stuff out there if you sort through he fanbodydom and find real experiences about people who switch - for example, people look at Dr. Joshi's tank and see a nice tank (and it is), but the forget about all of the millepora that he lost and the many colonies that died when he switched... he has chosen to live with these issues, but his tank was not what is was... it was better when he ran the Halides and he will tell you as much. Schnitzel has a great thread on leaving Radions and getting better results - it should be near the top of the SPS forum. I guess that my main caution would be to expect your tank to be different, and a ceiling of about 75-80% of the ceiling that you have now - if you like something else about the Radions that overcomes this lower ceiling, then that is a great reason to have them... but don't get mad if color changes, stuff starts to die from the bottom up and your tank is still not the same.

If you do decide to do it, keep your current setup for at least a year. Chances are that you will be putting it back on in some capacity - while it will not be able to grow back the shadowing underside death that is sure to come (if you have colonies), it can get you mostly back to where you were.

So when Sanjay made the change, did you consider that it is possible that maybe he just didn't do a good enough job at acclimating? I've seen a lot of milli's under LED over the years. Schnitzel and I used to be neighbors. IMO, he just didn't have the patience with the Radions. Had he stuck with it, it may have worked just as well for him. The truth is we will never know. I go WWC year after year and see the progress and growth that they have under Radions and if it wasn't a viable source of light, and simply a way of promoting the sale of lights, I would 100% expect them to use some other source of light at their farm. Especially since it it at a remote location and not open to the public at all. But the reality is, that is not the case. 00% Radions there.

 

[Abhishek]

I still can't beleive just how many people still believe that Radions are not a good lighting choice. The bottom line is that they work with many documented successes! I have alwayys used MH in the past but after 3 months of using a Radion on the new tank, I would not even consider going back. I have been more than happy with the progress so far. I will admit, it does seem to take corals a lil longer for corals to acclimate to the light but once they do, they take off.

So when Sanjay made the change, did you consider that it is possible that maybe he just didn't do a good enough job at acclimating? I've seen a lot of milli's under LED over the years. Schnitzel and I used to be neighbors. IMO, he just didn't have the patience with the Radions. Had he stuck with it, it may have worked just as well for him. The truth is we will never know. I go the WWC year after year and see the progress and growth that they have under Radions and if it wasn't a viable source of light, and simply a way of promoting the sale of lights, I would 100% expect them to use some other source of light at their farm. Especially since it it at a remote location and not open to the public at all. But the reality is, that is not the case. 00% Radions there.

There are few people in the hobby I look upto and take guidance from and Greg is one of them. Legend in terms of growing acros . If radions are good for him, its definitely good for anyone .

Don't get me wrong.. Am a die hard halide guy and Greg knows that. I infact hate radiums when it comes to halides and love xm 10Ks, reeflux 10Ks and my new found love geissemann megachrome 17.5 K crystal. I still run halides and probably will continue to do so as I simply love the look of tanks under shallow whitish/yellowish halide lights.

If it were me and wanted to use leds , I would do 3 xr15 pros . The only problem I have with XR30 is that the pucks are too close and you are bound to get hot spots. With diffusers and evenly spaced, XR15 pro will be amazing .

But am a novice - so take my advice with a pinch of salt.

Regards,
Abhishek

 

[jda]

Here are Dr. Joshi's words from 2016:
https://reefs.com/2016/01/05/leds-500-gallon-reef/

You can read this three different ways (or maybe more)... you can make it sound like he is completely sold on the Radions... I have heard people say that this is proof that he made a huge mistake... and some see this as balancing act where he gives up something to gain something (which is the way that I see it). Read it with soft eyes and see if you can attend some of his talks at MACNA, or at your local club. He is as honest as it gets and has a wide enough breath and depth of experience to know what he is doing and talking about.

He gives a lot of talks and is very open. He always seems to answer every question. We spoke with him quite a bit at 2015 MACNA here in Denver and his speech had a lot of locals sell their LEDs and go back to whatever they used before. This jives with everything else that I have seen with my own eyes - you will have a ceiling... now considering that most hobbyists never get to that point, this might be OK for you. However, if you want to hit Copps, Ed or JB level of tanks, you will not likely be able to. Take everything that I say for what it is worth - I have seen a lot of nice tanks all over the country and I walk into Vivid or WWC and think "this tank is 75-80% of what it could be..." but I also would probably do it the same way if I was a retail store and not a hobbyist.

I have been approached to get enough free lights/equipment for my whole house if I will just post good things about it. I turned this down. You all might be amazed about who is on the payroll... or maybe you might not be. There are people with a big presence on this board... and lots and lots of vendors that don't pay a dime.

 

[Ash321]

I was looking at radion for sps but now im leaning towards oprhek think they have a better set up and reviews . Also a little cheaper as one light has more coverage.