Randy's Tank and Learn Thread

[jonelder68]

Salinity

My decades old American Marine Pinpoint conductivity meter seems to have lost its mind yesterday, reading normally as I was making a batch of new salt water and then suddenly maxing out, even in my standard solution.

Looks like I need to decide what type and brand of salinity determination I’ll use going forward. It’s not something I’ve had to think about in 30 years.

Tropic marine hydrometer has been my go to. Seemed the most cost effective method. This with a 500ml graduated cylinder. Never fails. Well….unless you drop it.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Tropic marine hydrometer has been my go to. Seemed the most cost effective method. This with a 500ml graduated cylinder. Never fails. Well….unless you drop it.

Yes, I know many people like them and I understand the no calibration or miscalibration attraction, but they are impossible to use for testing incoming creatures in plastic bags (which I have plenty of these days), so I would need something for that anyway.

I'm leaning toward a conductivity meter of some sort, since it is easy to check them in a standard every time. I think many folks problem with them stem from faulty standards as opposed to a meter that reads fine in a standard and reads wrong in tank water a few minutes later. Temperature compensation is another possible failure point, which is not hard to check to see if it is an issue.

 

[jeremym]

I use the Milwaukee Digital Seawater Refractometer MA887

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Two candidates at the moment are the Hanna HI98319 and this VWR on ebay:

Pardon Our Interruption...

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I use the Milwaukee Digital Seawater Refractometer MA887

Thanks. :)

 

[jonelder68]

Two candidates at the moment are the Hanna HI98319 and this VWR on ebay:

Pardon Our Interruption...

Hanna HI98319 is what I have. I just use the tropic marine to confirm new salt mixes and confirm Hanna hasn’t swayed any. So far the Hanna hasn’t needed any recalibrating in 5-6 months. Love both of them. My OCD has me double check test every testing

 

[jonelder68]

Any update on how the Dino’s/brown crud and marineland magnum filter working for you?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Hanna HI98319 is what I have. I just use the tropic marine to confirm new salt mixes and confirm Hanna hasn’t swayed any. So far the Hanna hasn’t needed any recalibrating in 5-6 months. Love both of them. My OCD has me double check test every testing

How long do you find you need to leave the probe in the solution to get a stable reading?

My old orion was fast, while the Pinpoint was slow, likely due to how long it took to get a final temperature reading to compensate.

The problem with the Hanna, IMO, is it must be hand held while the VWR and all my previous meters had corded probes that can just hang into the solution on their own.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Any update on how the Dino’s/brown crud and marineland magnum filter working for you?

I don't know what aspects are helping (UV, increased nutrients and silicate, more CUC, filter, reduced light intensity, etc.), but the problem with dinos in the display is minimal at the moment. A bit more in the brightest refugium. I am looking forward to the CUC cleaning up the coralline covered rocks more since some have a thin coating of turf and/or diatoms on them. The back glass is getting some green algae (good, IMO) and the snails are mowing it down.

I'm increasing the light intensity in the display again.

 

[jonelder68]

How long do you find you need to leave the probe in the solution to get a stable reading?

My old orion was fast, while the Pinpoint was slow, likely due to how long it took to get a final temperature reading to compensate.

The problem with the Hanna, IMO, is it must be hand held while the VWR and all my previous meters had corded probes that can just hang into the solution on their own.

Usually around 15-20 seconds for temperature to rise to 77 on meter. Corded would be nice. Never thought about that.

 

[jonelder68]

I don't know what aspects are helping (UV, increased nutrients and silicate, more CUC, filter, reduced light intensity, etc.), but the problem with dinos in the display is minimal at the moment. A bit more in the brightest refugium. I am looking forward to the CUC cleaning up the coralline covered rocks more since some have a thin coating of turf and/or diatoms on them. The back glass is getting some green algae (good, IMO) and the snails are mowing it down.

I'm increasing the light intensity in the display again.

Glad to hear. The cuc should have you back to normal in a week or so if similar to mine. If it ramps back up run the canister filter in the display while manual cleaning one more time.

The refugium I’ve yet to get spotless. It’s minimal. But no cuc in there due to stone crabs and whelks. But the pods sure are loving it. Pom Pom chamber has turned to GHA/turf so added two turbos and they’re cleaning it out.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I made an offer on the vwr conductivity meter and it was accepted. Hopefully it comes soon and works as I’m hoping it does. :)

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Glad to hear. The cuc should have you back to normal in a week or so if similar to mine. If it ramps back up run the canister filter in the display while manual cleaning one more time.

The refugium I’ve yet to get spotless. It’s minimal. But no cuc in there due to stone crabs and whelks. But the pods sure are loving it. Pom Pom chamber has turned to GHA/turf so added two turbos and they’re cleaning it out.

Thanks. Fingers crossed. :)

 

[Chuck_e]

Heating and Cooling Control

I detailed the cooling system itself in a different post

Randy's Tank and Learn Thread

And of course everything we read is true.....so that's one amazing pump, lol.

www.reef2reef.com

For heaters, I've selected Finnex titanium heaters. Thank you to those who have recommended them. For now, I've ordered one 500 watt and one 800 watt. They arrive today. Heating is a significant need much of the year since the basement where much of the system is stays pretty cool year round. I do not know if these will be enough in winter, but I'll wait and see, ordering more as needed. Outside temps can get below zero F here on occasions.

The 800 watt may be seasonal, being removed in summer and any shoulder season where it's not needed. Not having it in place just removes a possible failure point. A bonus of the Finnex heaters is that they act as a grounding probe for water they are in contact with, helping ensure that if a device leaks actual current, it will trip a GFCI (more on that setup later as I plan to use many GFCI) rather than waiting for me to reach into to the sump to complete the circuit in bare feet on the basement floor.

Control of both heating and cooling will fall to a multiple inkbird plan. I've gotten what I think are very good prices for these on sale lately with coupons, and I'm awaiting getting a couple more when the price is right.

The inkbird 308 wifi can control both heaters and cooling, and tells me the temp over wifi for remote monitoring. I've already connected both to the app and they report just fine, although setup was, as is often the case with these sorts of things, somewhat frustrating. I actually came back to one this morning to try again, and found it somehow finished connecting on its own despite telling me it failed to pair. lol

I got them for about $35 each. Cooling control will use two of these for extra protection. While there are some details about the gap between cooling on and cooling off that I'll need to work out in practice, I expect I will set that to the minimum (1 deg F) with no cooling delay since the solenoid has no issue turning on and off rapidly.

In summary, one will be set to, say, a setting of 79 deg F, and cool (open the cooling solenoid) only if the tank water gets above that point. The solenoid will be plugged into the cooling outlet on that inkbird

That inkbird will be directly plugged into the cooling outlet of a second, identical inkbird. That second inkbird will only power the cooling outlet if the temperature is above its setpoint of, say, 75 deg F. It is the backup shut off if the first cooling inkbird fails to control properly somehow. It doesn't help a failed off, but it will prevent a failed on, which is the much bigger concern in my opinion.

In this fashion, the cooling solenoid will only get power if both inkbirds think cooling is needed. In a perfect world, the second one will always power the first one, and the first one will do all of on off control.

I just ordered a third inkbird 308, but not the wif fi version since it was on sale for only $24. I'd prefer more temp monitoring over wi fi, but I already have at least 2 (the two wifi 308 inkbirds), and maybe more depending on what other devices I get.

This third inkbird will be used for a heating control, in a fashion similar to the cooling control. I'll need another one or two inkbirds for heating control (one cannot control both the 500w and 800 w Finnex due to current draw), but what exactly I get will depend on Amazon sales in the future. One inkbird will be the failsafe shut off and the second one plugged into it will be the primary on off controller.

One very important aspect that I want to mention. I think it is very important that the temperature measurement for the control be in the same chamber as the actual heating or cooling device. If the return pump stops for any reason (except a power failure), and the sensor is in a different sump chamber, the temp controls may continually think more heating or cooling is needed, potentially driving the temps way up or down in that chamber. It's a drawback of a titanium heater without its own temp sensor, and a drawback of my cooling system, but if the two active sensors are in the same chamber, the issue is largely eliminated.

Any comments or concerns about this setup are appreciated. :)

Great thread, lots of very interesting information and insights! Thanks for doing this!

I’m in Northern Alberta, 90g display tank in the basement, in a finished and heated room. The sump is also in the basement but in another room that isn’t heated so it’s typically 3-5 oC cooler than the finished room. Which makes for a good wine cellar, but I digress… Cooling has never been an issue so I can’t comment on the InkBird setup.

My heater is a 400W Hygger with a built in thermostat, installed in the sump, which I set to a degree and a half higher than my display tank settings. Because of the large difference in temperature between the room where the display tank is and the room where the sump is, my main temperature control is an Apex probe in the display tank. I think it’s easier for me to control the temperature that way than to try and calibrate the heater in the sump…

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Pictures from Today

Rock, showing lack of a dino issue

The weeping willow:

One of the Koji wada:

And a fishy scene. Note that the sand is clean. The algae at the bottom of this picture is on the glass and does not scrape off easily. I’ll need to use a razor blade on it.

 

[Subsea]

The sponges in your last picture, show up nicely. Also, very nice live rock. Love the chromis damsels.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

The sponges in your last picture, show up nicely. Also, very nice live rock.

Thanks. Yes, if the sponges survive, they are a great addition.

 

[pooootiqe]

Randy - will you be directly feeding the NPS gorgonian?

I came across this video and wonder if it's worth a try.
()
GCE looks like a good source for NPS gorgs (yours is huge!) Hoping to pick up some yellow/red finger gorgonian or sun corals as well at RAP NY.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Randy - will you be directly feeding the NPS gorgonian?

I came across this video and wonder if it's worth a try.
()
GCE looks like a good source for NPS gorgs (yours is huge!) Hoping to pick up some yellow/red finger gorgonian or sun corals as well at RAP NY.

I was hoping the phyto I dose daily will suffice, along with my usual way of no mechanical filtration (which is not presently being followed). I don’t know if that’s sufficient or not.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Great thread, lots of very interesting information and insights! Thanks for doing this!

I’m in Northern Alberta, 90g display tank in the basement, in a finished and heated room. The sump is also in the basement but in another room that isn’t heated so it’s typically 3-5 oC cooler than the finished room. Which makes for a good wine cellar, but I digress… Cooling has never been an issue so I can’t comment on the InkBird setup.

My heater is a 400W Hygger with a built in thermostat, installed in the sump, which I set to a degree and a half higher than my display tank settings. Because of the large difference in temperature between the room where the display tank is and the room where the sump is, my main temperature control is an Apex probe in the display tank. I think it’s easier for me to control the temperature that way than to try and calibrate the heater in the sump…

Thanks. I find right now the water coming back to the sump is very slightly cooler than the water going to the display, but not enough to worry about.

It has not been hot enough inside the house yet for the cooling to be needed, but it is ready. I have its valve shut off unless I forseee it’s need on a given day. No sense risking any unforeseen glitch turning it on.