Rant... I hate the direction the hobby has gone

[areefer01]

Magazine contributors and book authors were like YouTubers - many just filling up content with BS to get paid or be noticed. The medium has changed, but not the message has not.

I don't want to read into your post but are you suggesting that some of the books by Fenner, Moe, Delbeek, Tullock, Thiel, are BS?

I agree that YouTube, FB, and Instagram are nothing more than entertainment but not sure I agree with the book comment. I mean yes, there can bad books but not sure I would give it a blanket statement.

I very well could misunderstand the post though - so apologies if so.

 

[Damage12]

Is it me or are fish coming in with a lot more disease than in the past 10-20 years? I almost never heard of Uronema back in the day. Never quarantined any fish and had many lived well over 10 years.

 

[BeanAnimal]

I don't want to read into your post but are you suggesting that some of the books by Fenner, Moe, Delbeek, Tullock, Thiel, are BS?

No, not at all. Some books are better than others and many contradictory to that end. Not singling any particular author out. There are a LOT of reef books out there spanning decades. Our club "library had dozens.

I agree that YouTube, FB, and Instagram are nothing more than entertainment but not sure I agree with the book comment. I mean yes, there can bad books but not sure I would give it a blanket statement.

Not all YT or FB is bad, either.

I very well could misunderstand the post though - so apologies if so.

Many of those published (in any medium) then and now disagree with each other, even rabidly and more often than you may think. MACNA behind the scenes was always an interesting place to see some of this, as well as the club speaking tour that was so prevalent a decade ago.

 

[steveschuerger]

Unfortunately the only choice is to adapt if you don't want to leave the hobby. There have been a lot of improvement as well so that can't go unnoticed especially in care of the organisms and fish health. A lot of past beliefs have been proven false and better methods have become acceptable.

I'm totally with you though as the hobby has evolved into a "collectors" market like shoes, and designer products. I remember when the word "frag' was not known in the hobby. What we call colonies today are what you bought and you paid on average $40.

Not to mention a vendor calling something with 3 or 4 polyps a “mini” colony and selling it for two to three times the price of one with say 1 less than what they’re trying sell you. I’ve only been in the hobby for just about 4.5 yrs and I’ve seen plenty of changes even then. Theres been at least two vendors I would go out of my way to purchase from and now they’ll not get my business due various things. One brief comment on the flip side of things is there seems to an ever expanding amount of relatively reasonably priced equipment .

 

[skyrne_isk]

1. Quality of information. This is by far my biggest complaint! I am so sick and tired of bs fish influencers that come on YouTube and think they know ball. The content is mostly slop and has very little value. I am sure there are good YouTubers, but when i got into this hobby, the best source was a good book. Especially if you are just starting out. I am not aware of any QUALITY books that have been released in the past 5 years(please let me know that I am wrong, I really hope that I am). Most recs I have seen for books still recommend books that are over 10 years old. We have way better technology, it would be nice if someone credible could discuss how to use it.

I despise the trend I see on here where “build threads” are comprised of nothing more than a series of “updates” that are insta posts. There is no chance I am going to wade through a half dozen 20 minute videos you have attached to see what you are dosing, your light regimen, or livestock. Especially when none of the videos are particularly topical or focused - they are just meandering prattle about your tank.

Say what you will about the RC toxicity, but those threads were much more likely to contain observational science and experiences documented somewhat coherently. And the writeups let the search function… work. These video posts? No shot of being able to find anything you might actually interested in.

I am all for accessibility of information and the hobby in general, but the low effort involved in more and more posts I see - not great. Literally nothing about this hobby is easy and even worse I suspect the social media links are more about mediocre attempts at monetization.

 

[steveschuerger]

I despise the trend I see on here where “build threads” are comprised of nothing more than a series of “updates” that are insta posts. There is no chance I am going to wade through a half dozen 20 minute videos you have attached to see what you are dosing, your light regimen, or livestock. Especially when none of the videos are particularly topical or focused - they are just meandering prattle about your tank.

Say what you will about the RC toxicity, but those threads were much more likely to contain observational science and experiences documented somewhat coherently. And the writeups let the search function… work. These video posts? No shot of being able to find anything you might actually interested in.

I am all for accessibility of information and the hobby in general, but the low effort involved in more and more posts I see - not great. Literally nothing about this hobby is easy and even worse I suspect the social media links are more about mediocre attempts at monetization.

Ok from what I’ve seen, the vast majority of the tank threads are an initial burst of information about the tank itself, equipment, livestock plans, aquascaping , stand , additives/chemicals for dosing etc and once that’s done it becomes a place to show off what the tank looks like , any changes made between posts if any , the occasional serious reef related info/discussion with thread visitors, and here’s a big one, at least for me and apparently plenty of others here on R2R and that’s to hang with like minded people and have a little fun making connections and friendships.

 

[Rob A]

Curious if you could list some?


Overall I think the hobby is fine, somethings are better from example: I had the first Neptune Aquacontroller in 2000 and it worked, however the new Apex I got last year is a huge improvement. Berghia N. destroyed my aiptasia problem, 10 years ago not sure I remember hearing about them?

I still use Julian Sprung books and some others and the information is still perfectly relevant and outstanding.

Look on page 394 of The Reef aquarium vol 1. The guy cutting the coral is Dick Perrin owner of the Tropicorium in Romulus MI he is the OG fragger and he and the Tropicorium are still around 30 years later. I'm lucky to have learned reefing from them as have a lot of reefers around metro Detroit.

You can still learn a lot on line just ignore noise and marketing .

 

[SaltyWalty]

This feels like a clear example of what can happen when a hobby evolves into an industry. I’ve encountered many people—both newcomers and long-time hobbyists—who approach coral purchases primarily as financial investments rather than as living organisms to be appreciated and understood.

While it’s completely reasonable to sell frags or corals to help offset the costs of the hobby, there seems to be a growing emphasis on resale value over genuine interest. Increasingly, I meet more individuals focused on selling corals than on learning about their biology, ecology, or husbandry. Likewise, purchasing decisions are often driven by branded or “hobby” names rather than by the coral’s natural characteristics or aesthetic appeal.

This shift risks moving the focus away from appreciation, education, and stewardship—the elements that drew many people to the hobby in the first place.

Thanks for listening to my rant

 

[Isaac Alves]

I think broadly there is just improvement across knowledge, husbandry, equipment, technology. And overall marketing and social media awareness seems to be readily discussed on forums like this one. I've only been in the hobby since around 2015 and I can't complain.

I don't know if this is controversial, but in my opinion, the trade/hobby names make it easier to differentiate color variants; while the species name/scientific categorization make it easier to understand husbandry requirements. I find both useful and necessary.

 

[rtparty]

I despise the trend I see on here where “build threads” are comprised of nothing more than a series of “updates” that are insta posts. There is no chance I am going to wade through a half dozen 20 minute videos you have attached to see what you are dosing, your light regimen, or livestock. Especially when none of the videos are particularly topical or focused - they are just meandering prattle about your tank.

Say what you will about the RC toxicity, but those threads were much more likely to contain observational science and experiences documented somewhat coherently. And the writeups let the search function… work. These video posts? No shot of being able to find anything you might actually interested in.

I am all for accessibility of information and the hobby in general, but the low effort involved in more and more posts I see - not great. Literally nothing about this hobby is easy and even worse I suspect the social media links are more about mediocre attempts at monetization.

To be fair, RC was prevalent and popular when Insta wasn’t a thing. YT had barely been invented. Uploading videos was not easy

 

[JumboShrimp]

When all the noise/distraction/hype/mental fog rolls in, I try to ground myself by asking myself, "So basically it all revolves around a glass box of clean salt water... how tough can this be?!"

 

[CHSUB]

Look on page 394 of The Reef aquarium vol 1. The guy cutting the coral is Dick Perrin owner of the Tropicorium in Romulus MI he is the OG fragger and he and the Tropicorium are still around 30 years later. I'm lucky to have learned reefing from them as have a lot of reefers around metro Detroit.

You can still learn a lot on line just ignore noise and marketing .

Very cool…p415, Blastmussa was from Gables Aquarium,Miami; owner went to school with Julian. Where I learned most about reef aquariums and first met Julian.

 

[areefer01]

Look on page 394 of The Reef aquarium vol 1. The guy cutting the coral is Dick Perrin owner of the Tropicorium in Romulus MI he is the OG fragger and he and the Tropicorium are still around 30 years later. I'm lucky to have learned reefing from them as have a lot of reefers around metro Detroit.

You can still learn a lot on line just ignore noise and marketing .

Tropicorium is a bit of story as is but Mr. Perrin. A bit unfortunate as he collaborated with IPSF to create some quality coral food.

 

[Rob A]

Very cool…p415, Blastmussa was from Gables Aquarium,Miami; owner went to school with Julian. Where I learned most about reef aquariums and first met Julian.

How crazy is that we both have connections back to that book. Even crazier I just looked that Blastmussa up in the book a few days ago because mine just started to die after 4 years for no reason. I know that book by heart.

 

[areefer01]

To be fair, RC was prevalent and popular when Insta wasn’t a thing. YT had barely been invented. Uploading videos was not easy

I'll follow up a bit on the fair part - RC still has a couple of threads that are still very relevant today. Several fish primers, bean animal overflow, rocket enginner's stand, and lanthanum chloride to name a few. Well worth having bookmarked.

Likewise there are invaluable advanced aquarist articles on reefs dot come.

 

[Tahoe61]

I'll follow up a bit on the fair part - RC still has a couple of threads that are still very relevant today. Several fish primers, bean animal overflow, rocket enginner's stand, and lanthanum chloride to name a few. Well worth having bookmarked.

Likewise there are invaluable advanced aquarist articles on reefs dot come.

The sps section was priceless.

 

[vlangel]

Curious if you could list some?


Overall I think the hobby is fine, somethings are better from example: I had the first Neptune Aquacontroller in 2000 and it worked, however the new Apex I got last year is a huge improvement. Berghia N. destroyed my aiptasia problem, 10 years ago not sure I remember hearing about them?

I still use Julian Sprung books and some others and the information is still perfectly relevant and outstanding.

I have many of those books too! And they are still relevant!

 

[KrisReef]

There has been noise and snake oil since the first salesman was created.

This occurred immediately after 'The Fall" according to Satan's version of scripture.

Magazine contributors and book authors were like YouTubers - many just filling up content with BS to get paid or be noticed. The medium has changed, but not the message has not.

Yes, but not exactly, but depending on the book.

I used to jump into dumpsters to find pop bottles to return for the deposit money. It was my first legit hustle and I went "all-in" to support my habits. (My brother bought a slot car for $9.99 + tax after we "worked" a weekend back when the deposit was $0.03/single serve bottle!) The dumpster behind the strip club had the best magazines but we didn't read the articles. BUtt I can say without hesitation that those authors were focused upon an image, but they didn't have to project their voice and personality like todays U Toobers do. THe new medium is worse for information, as information has gotten caughten up with a personality contest, and a beauty contest, and a production content contest where as text books may have had pretty pictures, coral nudes if you like, and the author had to be skilled in language arts and have some grasp of the basic principles that governed the topic of discussion.

Modern libraries have removed much of the liturature, it is hidden behind a paywall, and the easy access stacks are filled with propaganda. University of San Diego, Science Library, Pers Obs.

Coral names? I don't really know any, and I have decades in the hobby. I ignore them, not out of spite or disdain, but simply because I don't care in the slightest.

"GARF Bonzai" was the first one that caught my attention. Obviously that's not a scientific name, and most of us don't have the skills or references to discern amongst the possibilities much less keep up with scientific name changes. Still the hobby names, especially for pop corals are useful if you see something you like and want to track it down in the hobby.

Shopping? There was a day when the LFS didn't carry anything and mail-order was the game. Now we order online and have a much better selection from the LFS.

I hate shopping on line, especially for live stock, groceries, and underware. I have very sensitive skin and so many brands of products chaff relentlessly. Buying from pictures, especially clothes and corals that are photographed in designer light set ups are a known reason for buyer dissappointment. I learned this before the internet. Go into a fashion store, the lights were pumping out spectrums to excite the colors in the clothes. I still grab garments and drag them to a window or outside if the security will allow so I can see what an item looks like in daylight, where I sometimes live.

So there is good and bad, but my advice is to just do your thing.

Yup, these are true.

Changes are not over yet. It will get worse, and better, and you will know it when you see it.

 

[Thales]

3. The decline in worthwhile events. Ever since MACNA's dissolution, there have been only a couple remaining events. MACNA was so special since it was the yearly "state of the hobby" if you will. We got to see new product releases, crazy imports, and meet influential figures in the industry. There was also an education component where scientists presented research and we got to hear seminars from credible people. Now, events are numerous and decentralized to extract as much money from the vendors and attendees as possible. Aquashella, is targeted to beginner hobbyists and gives their speaking engagements to Aquarium Influencers that have really no value besides their name recognition(sorry not sorry). That isn't to say that these events don't have a place in the community, I think its good there is a beginner friendly conference people can go to and learn more about the hobby. But an event that is catered towards advanced hobbyists is desperately needed.

www.reefretreat.org

:D

 

[dvgyfresh]

the influencer effect , it can be good and bad depending on how you look at it lol