Reasons for Doing Water Changes?

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I agree.

 

[glennf]

1. To reduce NO3 & PO4 . . . . . . . . . . (obsolete)

2. To reduce DOC . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . (activated carbon, sponges, bacteria)

3. To replenish elements including trace elements . . . . . (balling dosing)

Are there any other genuine reasons to do water changes, specifically for water quality?

I see NO reason for waterchanges when you manage to gain control without.

I have been doing it since 2004 and every tank i started since then has been running succesfully without waterchanges.

This tank has been running since 2004 without

GlennF's 1500 liter reef using his "DSR Method"

Here is Dutch reefkeeper GlennF's 1500L (400 US gallon) coral reef system maintained using a self-described controversial methodology he calls the Dutch Synthetic Reefing, or DSR Method for short.

www.advancedaquarist.com

Archives | Reef Hobbyist Magazine

 

[Sarah24!]

Hello,

So after reading the whole thread I had to chime in. Now I’m known to go off topic but I promise its
Not on purpose. Topic of water changes is still a mystery to me.

Let’s use my tank as a test tank. Now it’s 240 gallons with a 40 breeder, it has eshopps s300 skimmer which is rated for 300 gallons heavy bio load. I have tons of corals and 14 fish which is naso tang, Lt tang, hippo tang , purple tang, tommini tang, one bellus angel and 5 blow green chromies, 1 clown, and a golden head goby to clean my sand bed. Now I feed five frozen cubes of mysis a day which 99% none hits the sand before they eat it. Now all my fish are under 3 inches except Lt tang which is maybe 4 inches and my naso is maybe 6-7 inches.

Now I use filter socks, on the drains, and then two filter pads before return pump and filter socks on my dual return pumps. So my flow is about 22,500 gph. All socks washed twice a week, (swapped out), and skimmer is dumped once a week.

Now I have issues with nitrates and phosphates and I was doing 80 gallon water changes a week. In which it didn’t even make a dent in lowering my nitrates which were at 20ppm and phosphates maybe .25 or less but still high.

The cost of me doing 80 gallons a week was ridiculously expensive. I then added phosguard but set it too 440 gallon load instead of 240 to reduce faster. I then realized I had a lack of options to bring these down. I
Then went to the redsea nopox and started at 30ml a day until it droppped then per redsea and further research shows redsea nopox is addictive to the corals (.not the fish), in short I am a terrible mother to my reef because now they are addicted to drugs lol. But once my nitrates were at 2 or below, I reduced nopox to bare min for water volume, which is 16ml. Now I still do 30 gallons every week sometime every two weeks. I also dose 1 ml of trace elements based on my dosage of calcium. Which generally (I dose everything by hand nothing is automated). Normally my tank needs 1.5 table spoons of alk and calcium a day, and usually 10ml of magnesium every Sunday.
Now crazy thing is if I go more than 4 days at 16ml my nitrates will spike and go up to 10-15 and I have to increase dosage yet there is no extra feeding etc. I stopped reef roids and spot feeding because that drastically increased my nitrates and phosphates. With these spikes (harms my corals) into back to 20-25ml because my corals sps especially do not like high nitrates at all nor does my lps. But yes I have not solved my nitrates probelm and honestly I’m fresh out of ideas other than what is working now. But it’s more of a bandaid than anything. Not fond of using chemicals.

So are water changes needed well in my case they don’t help with the problems I’m having by any means and they are expensive. They are about 4 times more than the nopox large bottle is 19.99, and trace elements is 14.99 and last close to 6-8 months. 80 gallons of salt water every week which is 1.75 a gallon is $140’a week or 560 a month compared to 34.99 every 6 months (lol yes my math is dead on). I’m saving plus 500 a month so yeah I’m going to limit my water changes. Now with that said I have other problems, aka I can’t for the life of me get phosphates close to 0 or .05 etc. Even running phosguard I still have more than I need. Which it hasn’t really affected my corals but I want it lower.

Now further because I started nopox I can never stop it, because my tank is a drug addict (thanks to me Urgh I’m so terrible), if I do probably my corals will suffer. Aka for non believers it’s printed very clearly on page 6 of their instructions etc. so either way there are probelms with water changes and not doing water changes. Not to mention every tank is unique and has different needs. Not to mention corals adapt to water conditions and it’s not unusual aka lfs here in Boise has an sps dominant 90 and the nitrates are 40ppm and phosphates are about 1 (literally one where it should be under .25). Yet his colors and growth are amazing.

Water changes to me accomplish a few things:
1 gives me one heck of a work out. Since I’m 85 pounds and the five gallon jugs weigh 45 pounds it kicks my rear. It’s not fun carrying them since I buy all my pro salt water and rodi from lfs. I go through five gallons of rodi a day. Not fun.
2.) it makes my water clearer and cleaner, yes I run a level 1 uv steralizer and I have option to run ozone as well but (onlt when needed).
3.) it does add trace elements and others that i
Have no clue what they are, but hey why not right.
4.) Yes it’s obvious if you drain dirty water and replace it your simply diluting the waste in your tank. You will remove some of it, but again my nitrates were 20ppm and 80 gallons did nothing.

Cons
1.) it’s an extra 500 a month (.no thanks)
2.) for me it’s not fun when I have to move 14 five gallon water jugs at 45 pounds each. Yes I’m in shape but I’m 85 pounds so they are really heavy for me, and lol that’s with all my clothes on.

In short it’s up to the individual on how to manage their tank and develop a consistent plan to keep it balanced. My way works for me, it may not for others but I do what’s needed for my tank. Bottom line solve one problem and then solve the next one and eventually you will have a gorgeous balanced reef.

 

[glennf]

Hello,

So after reading the whole thread I had to chime in. Now I’m known to go off topic but I promise its
Not on purpose. Topic of water changes is still a mystery to me.

Let’s use my tank as a test tank. Now it’s 240 gallons with a 40 breeder, it has eshopps s300 skimmer which is rated for 300 gallons heavy bio load. I have tons of corals and 14 fish which is naso tang, Lt tang, hippo tang , purple tang, tommini tang, one bellus angel and 5 blow green chromies, 1 clown, and a golden head goby to clean my sand bed. Now I feed five frozen cubes of mysis a day which 99% none hits the sand before they eat it. Now all my fish are under 3 inches except Lt tang which is maybe 4 inches and my naso is maybe 6-7 inches.

Now I use filter socks, on the drains, and then two filter pads before return pump and filter socks on my dual return pumps. So my flow is about 22,500 gph. All socks washed twice a week, (swapped out), and skimmer is dumped once a week.

Now I have issues with nitrates and phosphates and I was doing 80 gallon water changes a week. In which it didn’t even make a dent in lowering my nitrates which were at 20ppm and phosphates maybe .25 or less but still high.

The cost of me doing 80 gallons a week was ridiculously expensive. I then added phosguard but set it too 440 gallon load instead of 240 to reduce faster. I then realized I had a lack of options to bring these down. I
Then went to the redsea nopox and started at 30ml a day until it droppped then per redsea and further research shows redsea nopox is addictive to the corals (.not the fish), in short I am a terrible mother to my reef because now they are addicted to drugs lol. But once my nitrates were at 2 or below, I reduced nopox to bare min for water volume, which is 16ml. Now I still do 30 gallons every week sometime every two weeks. I also dose 1 ml of trace elements based on my dosage of calcium. Which generally (I dose everything by hand nothing is automated). Normally my tank needs 1.5 table spoons of alk and calcium a day, and usually 10ml of magnesium every Sunday.
Now crazy thing is if I go more than 4 days at 16ml my nitrates will spike and go up to 10-15 and I have to increase dosage yet there is no extra feeding etc. I stopped reef roids and spot feeding because that drastically increased my nitrates and phosphates. With these spikes (harms my corals) into back to 20-25ml because my corals sps especially do not like high nitrates at all nor does my lps. But yes I have not solved my nitrates probelm and honestly I’m fresh out of ideas other than what is working now. But it’s more of a bandaid than anything. Not fond of using chemicals.

So are water changes needed well in my case they don’t help with the problems I’m having by any means and they are expensive. They are about 4 times more than the nopox large bottle is 19.99, and trace elements is 14.99 and last close to 6-8 months. 80 gallons of salt water every week which is 1.75 a gallon is $140’a week or 560 a month compared to 34.99 every 6 months (lol yes my math is dead on). I’m saving plus 500 a month so yeah I’m going to limit my water changes. Now with that said I have other problems, aka I can’t for the life of me get phosphates close to 0 or .05 etc. Even running phosguard I still have more than I need. Which it hasn’t really affected my corals but I want it lower.

Now further because I started nopox I can never stop it, because my tank is a drug addict (thanks to me Urgh I’m so terrible), if I do probably my corals will suffer. Aka for non believers it’s printed very clearly on page 6 of their instructions etc. so either way there are probelms with water changes and not doing water changes. Not to mention every tank is unique and has different needs. Not to mention corals adapt to water conditions and it’s not unusual aka lfs here in Boise has an sps dominant 90 and the nitrates are 40ppm and phosphates are about 1 (literally one where it should be under .25). Yet his colors and growth are amazing.

Water changes to me accomplish a few things:
1 gives me one heck of a work out. Since I’m 85 pounds and the five gallon jugs weigh 45 pounds it kicks my rear. It’s not fun carrying them since I buy all my pro salt water and rodi from lfs. I go through five gallons of rodi a day. Not fun.
2.) it makes my water clearer and cleaner, yes I run a level 1 uv steralizer and I have option to run ozone as well but (onlt when needed).
3.) it does add trace elements and others that i
Have no clue what they are, but hey why not right.
4.) Yes it’s obvious if you drain dirty water and replace it your simply diluting the waste in your tank. You will remove some of it, but again my nitrates were 20ppm and 80 gallons did nothing.

Cons
1.) it’s an extra 500 a month (.no thanks)
2.) for me it’s not fun when I have to move 14 five gallon water jugs at 45 pounds each. Yes I’m in shape but I’m 85 pounds so they are really heavy for me, and lol that’s with all my clothes on.

In short it’s up to the individual on how to manage their tank and develop a consistent plan to keep it balanced. My way works for me, it may not for others but I do what’s needed for my tank. Bottom line solve one problem and then solve the next one and eventually you will have a gorgeous balanced reef.

Very nice said and shared from own experience[emoji106]
Can you share a few pictures of your tank?
I am very interested i the relation between the way of maintenance and the end results and population involved.

Carbon dosing has nothing to do with drugs.
It's about don't what's missing to keep your tank running.
For that matter Regular waterchanges is also a way off getting hooked on something[emoji6]
I rather prefer the automated dosings over hard labour, the space needed and mess involved with WC routines.

Read more about sustainable problem solving

Nutrients

How to solve excess nutrients problems (PO4/NO3/SiO3) . Many reefers battle against high nutrients, because they have a fundamental problem. The way to find the problem is by elimination. Here are are some basic steps to walk through. Use the right (accurate) testing tools: Not all test sold...

www.DSRreefing.com

 

[Hermie]

Hello,

So after reading the whole thread I had to chime in. Now I’m known to go off topic but I promise its
Not on purpose. Topic of water changes is still a mystery to me.

Let’s use my tank as a test tank. Now it’s 240 gallons with a 40 breeder, it has eshopps s300 skimmer which is rated for 300 gallons heavy bio load. I have tons of corals and 14 fish which is naso tang, Lt tang, hippo tang , purple tang, tommini tang, one bellus angel and 5 blow green chromies, 1 clown, and a golden head goby to clean my sand bed. Now I feed five frozen cubes of mysis a day which 99% none hits the sand before they eat it. Now all my fish are under 3 inches except Lt tang which is maybe 4 inches and my naso is maybe 6-7 inches.

Now I use filter socks, on the drains, and then two filter pads before return pump and filter socks on my dual return pumps. So my flow is about 22,500 gph. All socks washed twice a week, (swapped out), and skimmer is dumped once a week.

Now I have issues with nitrates and phosphates and I was doing 80 gallon water changes a week. In which it didn’t even make a dent in lowering my nitrates which were at 20ppm and phosphates maybe .25 or less but still high.

The cost of me doing 80 gallons a week was ridiculously expensive. I then added phosguard but set it too 440 gallon load instead of 240 to reduce faster. I then realized I had a lack of options to bring these down. I
Then went to the redsea nopox and started at 30ml a day until it droppped then per redsea and further research shows redsea nopox is addictive to the corals (.not the fish), in short I am a terrible mother to my reef because now they are addicted to drugs lol. But once my nitrates were at 2 or below, I reduced nopox to bare min for water volume, which is 16ml. Now I still do 30 gallons every week sometime every two weeks. I also dose 1 ml of trace elements based on my dosage of calcium. Which generally (I dose everything by hand nothing is automated). Normally my tank needs 1.5 table spoons of alk and calcium a day, and usually 10ml of magnesium every Sunday.
Now crazy thing is if I go more than 4 days at 16ml my nitrates will spike and go up to 10-15 and I have to increase dosage yet there is no extra feeding etc. I stopped reef roids and spot feeding because that drastically increased my nitrates and phosphates. With these spikes (harms my corals) into back to 20-25ml because my corals sps especially do not like high nitrates at all nor does my lps. But yes I have not solved my nitrates probelm and honestly I’m fresh out of ideas other than what is working now. But it’s more of a bandaid than anything. Not fond of using chemicals.

So are water changes needed well in my case they don’t help with the problems I’m having by any means and they are expensive. They are about 4 times more than the nopox large bottle is 19.99, and trace elements is 14.99 and last close to 6-8 months. 80 gallons of salt water every week which is 1.75 a gallon is $140’a week or 560 a month compared to 34.99 every 6 months (lol yes my math is dead on). I’m saving plus 500 a month so yeah I’m going to limit my water changes. Now with that said I have other problems, aka I can’t for the life of me get phosphates close to 0 or .05 etc. Even running phosguard I still have more than I need. Which it hasn’t really affected my corals but I want it lower.

Now further because I started nopox I can never stop it, because my tank is a drug addict (thanks to me Urgh I’m so terrible), if I do probably my corals will suffer. Aka for non believers it’s printed very clearly on page 6 of their instructions etc. so either way there are probelms with water changes and not doing water changes. Not to mention every tank is unique and has different needs. Not to mention corals adapt to water conditions and it’s not unusual aka lfs here in Boise has an sps dominant 90 and the nitrates are 40ppm and phosphates are about 1 (literally one where it should be under .25). Yet his colors and growth are amazing.

Water changes to me accomplish a few things:
1 gives me one heck of a work out. Since I’m 85 pounds and the five gallon jugs weigh 45 pounds it kicks my rear. It’s not fun carrying them since I buy all my pro salt water and rodi from lfs. I go through five gallons of rodi a day. Not fun.
2.) it makes my water clearer and cleaner, yes I run a level 1 uv steralizer and I have option to run ozone as well but (onlt when needed).
3.) it does add trace elements and others that i
Have no clue what they are, but hey why not right.
4.) Yes it’s obvious if you drain dirty water and replace it your simply diluting the waste in your tank. You will remove some of it, but again my nitrates were 20ppm and 80 gallons did nothing.

Cons
1.) it’s an extra 500 a month (.no thanks)
2.) for me it’s not fun when I have to move 14 five gallon water jugs at 45 pounds each. Yes I’m in shape but I’m 85 pounds so they are really heavy for me, and lol that’s with all my clothes on.

In short it’s up to the individual on how to manage their tank and develop a consistent plan to keep it balanced. My way works for me, it may not for others but I do what’s needed for my tank. Bottom line solve one problem and then solve the next one and eventually you will have a gorgeous balanced reef.

I'm 175 and I can't imagine what it would feel like hauling 5 gallon jugs with 100 less lbs of bodyweight!!!!!!! That's intense, your level of dedication.

Do you have a refugium in your sump? JW because based on BRS's study, a super powered refugium light and tumbling chaeto will drastically reduce both phosphates and nitrates, or rather nitrates and phosphates.

 

[Sarah24!]

Very nice said and shared from own experience[emoji106]
Can you share a few pictures if your tank?
I am very interested i the relation between the way of maintenance and the end results and population involved.

Carbon dosing has nothing to do with drugs.
It's about don't what's missing to keep your tank running.
For that matter Regular waterchanges is also a way off getting hooked on something[emoji6]

Read more about sustainable problem solving

Nutrients

How to solve excess nutrients problems (PO4/NO3/SiO3) . Many reefers battle against high nutrients, because they have a fundamental problem. The way to find the problem is by elimination. Here are are some basic steps to walk through. Use the right (accurate) testing tools: Not all test sold...

www.DSRreefing.com

Hello,

Thank you for the kind words and of course ill
Post some pics they are maybe a week old. But my main thread is about how my 240 has grown. In addition thanks for the source refermce it will be nice to read it. My tank is or will be 2 years old this coming December so it’s roughly 20 months old which I did a 90 day cycle period.

 

[Sarah24!]

I'm 175 and I can't imagine what it would feel like hauling 5 gallon jugs with 100 less lbs of bodyweight!!!!!!! That's intense, your level of dedication.

Do you have a refugium in your sump? JW because based on BRS's study, a super powered refugium light and tumbling chaeto will drastically reduce both phosphates and nitrates, or rather nitrates and phosphates.

Hello,

Lol oh yeah it’s very exhausting to say the lease. I kinda cheat though when I have maybe 5-6 I can just grab one and carry it in. Still hard but what can you do right lol? But when I have all 14-18 jugs and it fills up the back of my Jeep, lol i use my nephews huge tonka dump truck and then I place them in the back of the tonka truck. Amazingly enough they fit but have to push the jug and if I let go the truck will fall over backwards do to the weight. Then I have a little wooden ramp I push them up from the garage to my inner door. Oddly it’s kinda of a long ways away. (Terrible design). Then I have to roll across my hard wood floors (which I’m not fond of (love the floors, not so much with a 50 pound tonka truck lol. But it works, and getting them into my Jeep isn’t fun at all.

 

[glennf]

Hello,

Thank you for the kind words and of course ill
Post some pics they are maybe a week old. But my main thread is about how my 240 has grown. In addition thanks for the source refermce it will be nice to read it. My tank is or will be 2 years old this coming December so it’s roughly 20 months old which I did a 90 day cycle period.

Beautifull and proud owner[emoji106]

Thanks for sharing.
I see Great potential. if you learn some more about basic waterchemistry you can become a even greater reefer. You've got the drive and passion for you tank.

Next time you do some scaping try to use less rock. Nowadays we want to fill out tank with corals rather than rock formation.

Once corals start to grow you need more space for corals and fish to swim in.
Otherwise you get flow and light limitation and they start knocking down corals[emoji23]

 

[glennf]

I'm 175 and I can't imagine what it would feel like hauling 5 gallon jugs with 100 less lbs of bodyweight!!!!!!! That's intense, your level of dedication.

Do you have a refugium in your sump? JW because based on BRS's study, a super powered refugium light and tumbling chaeto will drastically reduce both phosphates and nitrates, or rather nitrates and phosphates.

The dedication is there[emoji106]
Once a refugium is set up properly it will reduce a good part of NO3. But still you need to find the source of the problem and find a way to control the NO3/PO4 Balance. Feeding habit introduce the wildchart in reefing.

Imo keeping algea alive and healthy is another problem to be introduced in our maintenance shedule. It also require more space, energy trace elements and pruning to be maintain properly.

 

[glennf]

Hello,

Lol oh yeah it’s very exhausting to say the lease. I kinda cheat though when I have maybe 5-6 I can just grab one and carry it in. Still hard but what can you do right lol? But when I have all 14-18 jugs and it fills up the back of my Jeep, lol i use my nephews huge tonka dump truck and then I place them in the back of the tonka truck. Amazingly enough they fit but have to push the jug and if I let go the truck will fall over backwards do to the weight. Then I have a little wooden ramp I push them up from the garage to my inner door. Oddly it’s kinda of a long ways away. (Terrible design). Then I have to roll across my hard wood floors (which I’m not fond of (love the floors, not so much with a 50 pound tonka truck lol. But it works, and getting them into my Jeep isn’t fun at all.

Start reading about system without waterchanges. It can save you back and your hobby once you manage things like some of us who don't do WC.

Read about my story
http://www.reefhobbyistmagazine.com/magazine-tiled-q1-2014-41.html

And the sequel: #EZ550reef featuring on Reef Hobbyist Magazine, issue Q2 2019.

Q2 2019

Read Q2 2019 by Reef Hobbyist Magazine on Issuu and browse thousands of other publications on our platform. Start here!

issuu.com

 

[Timfish]

A significant portion of DOC is refractory and resists being metabolized by anything. Dr. Haas, et al, found the only times DOC dropped to zero around reefs was in highly eutrophic systems completely taken over by algae and heterotrophic bacteria (presentation to our local reef club). The only other way I know of to remove the refractory DOC in our systems is with water changes.

My bad! I miss remembered Dr. Haas' presentation. In a recent converstion he corrected me and pointed out there's a background amount of about 70 micromoles DOC.