Recommendations please

[Shawn_epicurious]

I have a 200 gallon reef tank going. I am marching towards SPS. Everything I have and done so far is on my build thread.

this tank is 3 months old... mixed reef... mostly softies and fish. I have a good bio-load in it now... now I have to leave that part alone and allow it to mature. So... now I am refining my equipment. My next step is dosing, and a controller system.

my end goal for my tank is SPS dominant and a few clams.

I have a good budget for this and I don’t want to have to upgrade again in 6 months. I am going for full on digital control and testing. I have been googling what’s out there... Neptune’s look nice. But I want to hear from guys actually doing this if possible. What would you recommend?

 

[Webslinger]

wifi controlled power strips

 

[Shawn_epicurious]

wifi controlled power strips

....and electronic probes for continuos testing with control over dosing

 

[SuncrestReef]

I am probably a bit biased since I love my Apex setup so much that I wrote a whole Apex Tutorial Series here on Reef2Reef: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/neptune-apex-programming-tutorials.700483/

But seriously, it is a great product and has a very strong user base with community support.

There are a lot of people who prefer the GHL Profilux and there's a dedicated subforum here: https://www.reef2reef.com/forums/ghl-advanced-technology.900/

If you're really into DIY, the Reef-Pi project has tons of users and information here: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/r...tank-controller-based-on-raspberry-pi.289256/

Another option that should become available soon is the new CoralVue HYDROS Controllers. They look very promising. See https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/control-monitor-your-aquarium-for-199-99.687569/

Just be sure to do your research in advance so you know what types of equipment will be compatible with whatever controller you decide on.

 

[Shawn_epicurious]

I am probably a bit biased since I love my Apex setup so much that I wrote a whole Apex Tutorial Series here on Reef2Reef: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/neptune-apex-programming-tutorials.700483/

But seriously, it is a great product and has a very strong user base with community support.

There are a lot of people who prefer the GHL Profilux and there's a dedicated subforum here: https://www.reef2reef.com/forums/ghl-advanced-technology.900/

If you're really into DIY, the Reef-Pi project has tons of users and information here: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/r...tank-controller-based-on-raspberry-pi.289256/

Another option that should become available soon is the new CoralVue HYDROS Controllers. They look very promising. See https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/control-monitor-your-aquarium-for-199-99.687569/

Just be sure to do your research in advance so you know what types of equipment will be compatible with whatever controller you decide on.

This is exactly what I needed... focused research. (I think that is the article I was just about to read when I saw your response) Thank you for this : )

 

[User1]

While @SuncrestReef did a great job, no awesome job really, laying down the foundation. There is another one to throw down into the ring and that is the RA (Reef Angel). It is also considered DIY although not to the same level of the Reef PI's. It will have an "initial" cheaper entry point than the Neptune Apex or GHL products but as you grow it may equal out or close to cost in the end. However, I will say that it has the best open source libraries out of any controllers listed here or elsewhere. Things like true tides, geo location support, and weather patterns that are checked as part of your main code logic and not on a set time. I've used them and went a week without seeing storm effects than later back to back throughout a day. GHL or Neptune do not offer that level of programming wizard or not.

I've used Neptune products going back to 1999 when they had a smaller head unit that was more or less a data logger with probes and X10 relays. It worked, worked well. Heck, my GSD though the head unit was a chew toy and it still worked (my fault for leaving it on the ground during maintenance). Anyway after I took a break I had set up a 29 gallon bio cube and setup the Reef Angel. Really loved it and it worked awesome. Great community with some really talented men and women writing some of the functions and helping everyone out. Anyway I'm also biased towards Neptune as I said I' used it for a while. My recent 210 gallon upgrade is using the Apex and I'm happy.

One thing GHL and Neptune offer is automated testing support. I'm not going to get into which is better or offers X, Y, or Z but if that is something you are going for down the road factor that in. As I said I use the Apex so went with the Trident. It works amazingly well and one of the things I dislike most it does for me. Testing Alk, Ca, and Mag :). Base unit takes care of temp, ORP, and salinity so really don't need anything else.

TL;DR - Look at the RA if going open source as an option. Consider long term automated testing. May help route you to one product. Best of luck!

 

[Shawn_epicurious]

While @SuncrestReef did a great job, no awesome job really, laying down the foundation. There is another one to throw down into the ring and that is the RA (Reef Angel). It is also considered DIY although not to the same level of the Reef PI's. It will have an "initial" cheaper entry point than the Neptune Apex or GHL products but as you grow it may equal out or close to cost in the end. However, I will say that it has the best open source libraries out of any controllers listed here or elsewhere. Things like true tides, geo location support, and weather patterns that are checked as part of your main code logic and not on a set time. I've used them and went a week without seeing storm effects than later back to back throughout a day. GHL or Neptune do not offer that level of programming wizard or not.

I've used Neptune products going back to 1999 when they had a smaller head unit that was more or less a data logger with probes and X10 relays. It worked, worked well. Heck, my GSD though the head unit was a chew toy and it still worked (my fault for leaving it on the ground during maintenance). Anyway after I took a break I had set up a 29 gallon bio cube and setup the Reef Angel. Really loved it and it worked awesome. Great community with some really talented men and women writing some of the functions and helping everyone out. Anyway I'm also biased towards Neptune as I said I' used it for a while. My recent 210 gallon upgrade is using the Apex and I'm happy.

One thing GHL and Neptune offer is automated testing support. I'm not going to get into which is better or offers X, Y, or Z but if that is something you are going for down the road factor that in. As I said I use the Apex so went with the Trident. It works amazingly well and one of the things I dislike most it does for me. Testing Alk, Ca, and Mag :). Base unit takes care of temp, ORP, and salinity so really don't need anything else.

TL;DR - Look at the RA if going open source as an option. Consider long term automated testing. May help route you to one product. Best of luck!

I am googling the Reef Angel now... but it sounds like you both prefer the Neptune - Trident combination.

 

[User1]

I am googling the Reef Angel now... but it sounds like you both prefer the Neptune - Trident combination.

Well, this isn't about what "we" like. It is more about your goals, budget, and long term plans. Personally I don't think you can go wrong with any of the products listed here. @SuncrestReef and I mentioned we are both biased and use Neptune. I just noted another controller that I've used with success as a possibility.

As a fellow hobbyist it is in our best interest that I call out what I own, have used, and if i have any bias (in a good way) in the controller replies :). We don't need fanboy or fangirl thrown around, right? All jokes aside here is another recommendation.

If you haven't done so make a pro / con list then maybe it will help guide you to one of the them. Things you must have, things for growth as you work your way through the hobby, starting budget, ending budget, tank equipment you want to control, the products you have bought, going to buy, automated testing, etc.

Once you have that you can bring up two browsers with each product page and compare. Things start to get crazy as you look at integrating things like power heads, return pumps, and say lights when controlled by controllers. This isn't the PC, phone, or tablet market where they have standards.

Sadly saltwater equipment manufactures do not want to play nice no matter how some have tried to make integration API's. Everyone wants their own phone app, dongle, wifi adapter, or chip to enable connectivity. It is, in my opinion, killing this hobby.

So anyway another long post - sorry. Just wanted to say it really is your choice. These are not cheap by any means (not saying that matters to you) so hopefully we can get it right.

 

[Shawn_epicurious]

Well, this isn't about what "we" like. It is more about your goals, budget, and long term plans. Personally I don't think you can go wrong with any of the products listed here. @SuncrestReef and I mentioned we are both biased and use Neptune. I just noted another controller that I've used with success as a possibility.

As a fellow hobbyist it is in our best interest that I call out what I own, have used, and if i have any bias (in a good way) in the controller replies :). We don't need fanboy or fangirl thrown around, right? All jokes aside here is another recommendation.

If you haven't done so make a pro / con list then maybe it will help guide you to one of the them. Things you must have, things for growth as you work your way through the hobby, starting budget, ending budget, tank equipment you want to control, the products you have bought, going to buy, automated testing, etc.

Once you have that you can bring up two browsers with each product page and compare. Things start to get crazy as you look at integrating things like power heads, return pumps, and say lights when controlled by controllers. This isn't the PC, phone, or tablet market where they have standards.

Sadly saltwater equipment manufactures do not want to play nice no matter how some have tried to make integration API's. Everyone wants their own phone app, dongle, wifi adapter, or chip to enable connectivity. It is, in my opinion, killing this hobby.

So anyway another long post - sorry. Just wanted to say it really is your choice. These are not cheap by any means (not saying that matters to you) so hopefully we can get it right.

To be honest, everything I am looking at right now is adding up to less than I thought it would be. I have begun to understand the industry dilemma with “matching“ equipment and softwares. I am CPA... my IT skills are limited, but not non-existent. It looks to me like I would need help with initial set up on any of them. (Which I am fine with). Should I factor in level of knowledge of setting these up my LFS guy has?

I went thru with this with Control 4 (if you know that one) ...home automation... I like what it can do, I don’t like that they have to do everything for you... no self programming.
None of these products seem to be set up like that. But, “plug and play” doesn’t mean simple.

You asked about my goals... I can see my tank already ... a year from now...2 years from now... 20 - 25 species of SPS and 2 or 3 clams. I like exotic... rare and I always “play in the deep end of the pool” when I do anything lol

Popularity of products also plays in... it usually mean higher levels of support and growing future product lists.

I am doing side by side comparisons right now : )

 

[Shawn_epicurious]

I just wanted to take a quick moment to say thank you to both of you. You guys focused my research exactly to where I need to be. So... : ) Thank you both!

I’ll drop a note in here when I make a decision

 

[Shawn_epicurious]

I think I just had a realization.... lol The way you guys both wrote those responses. There are things you “can’t“ come right out say aren’t there? Legal implication....

 

[sarcophytonIndy]

I have an Apex Classic and love it. Never given me any trouble.

 

[Webslinger]

my $30 wifi powerstrips are the best piece of equipment I have. They control my whole tank. I don't test water so apex must rock if you need it!

 

[Shawn_epicurious]

my $30 wifi powerstrips are the best piece of equipment I have. They control my whole tank. I don't test water so apex must rock if you need it!

not everything is about need... most of this hobby is about desires... right?

 

[sarcophytonIndy]

my $30 wifi powerstrips are the best piece of equipment I have. They control my whole tank. I don't test water so apex must rock if you need it!

I am using my Apex as a temperature controller and an ATO system as well. But otherwise I like your idea of the wifi controllable power strips

 

[Shawn_epicurious]

my $30 wifi powerstrips are the best piece of equipment I have. They control my whole tank. I don't test water so apex must rock if you need it!

I wasn’t being rude : ) I don’t have to guess... I already “know” you can dance circles around me on these tanks. My god you have been a member here since 2014! I’d like to say I’ll catch up to you someday. The truth is, I prolly won’t. Cuz youll still be doing it too : ) I have to travel professionally. I like the added benefit that my tank would be taken care of while I am gone.

I am a little curious about one thing though. This thread is dedicated to giving advice on Controllers. While I understand the things you said “are advice about controlling things” it’s almost like you want me to feel bad for wanting one...?

Thoughts?

 

[User1]

I think I just had a realization.... lol The way you guys both wrote those responses. There are things you “can’t“ come right out say aren’t there? Legal implication....

No, not really. Honestly. I can't speak for @SuncrestReef but I believe we both try and answer these questions objectively and fairly. We also call out that we are Apex users and may be biased. I believe that lets you know as you go through the answers.

I sort of see it like this. Both Apex and GHL are the main players in the market today. Neptune you probably have figured out is the two ton heavy thing in the US. GHL is second fiddle. It doesn't mean one is better than the other as they both have their respected places.

Here is an example. Let us say your question was different instead of a controller you are asking which automation testing unit would we recommend. My first reply would be this:

@Shawn_epicurious do you already own a controller?

If you replied yes, Apex, then my reply would be for you to consider the trident. Why? Because you are already invested in the controller so it would be a lower cost entry point. I would then tell you my experience with it, the pro, the cons, etc. It uses reagents which some hate, others don't care, and some like.

On the other hand if your reply was no, you don't have one. Then I would reply differently. Apex has the trident, here is what it does, pros, cons, etc. Then I would say GHL is introducing their system and it they are using probes with reference fluids. I'd give you the link and say if you are shopping for controllers this is something to consider.

Then I would also include a third choice which is the Reef Bot. It is a reagent / test kit based system that automates the manual steps. There is a hobbyist list of which test kits work the and companies like Tropic Marin are packing up a specific test just for it due to its popularity while saving the hobbyist money. I think that is cool and have since moved from Two Part dosing (Alk/Cal) to their DIY tropic marin all for reef because of their support of our hobby.

So you see while I am an Neptune customer I can also step back and answer a question somewhat objectively. Hopefully this makes sense. Both are good and I don't think you can go wrong with either.

Note: I've not used GHL products but do like their aesthetics and build quality. I like Neptunes user interface and wizards to control. Probably the best selling feature along is the heatbeat monitor. That alone is worth the price which more or less lets Fusion application (web / cloud portal) ping your controller and if it is offline will email you. That could mean power failure (major) or network issue (minor). So you can act on it.

If you are a coder - I think you said a CPA - Reef Angel is going to require some basic understanding of code. The forums they have are very helpful and you will be able to get it going with little effort. They also have a wizard to get you going. But things like tidals, geo location, and more will require some work.

Hope this helps - have a great evening. And welcome to the controller club. Not mandatory but helpful. And as you grow so do the options to grow such as dosing and automatic water changes to name two.

 

[Shawn_epicurious]

No, not really. Honestly. I can't speak for @SuncrestReef but I believe we both try and answer these questions objectively and fairly. We also call out that we are Apex users and may be biased. I believe that lets you know as you go through the answers.

I sort of see it like this. Both Apex and GHL are the main players in the market today. Neptune you probably have figured out is the two ton heavy thing in the US. GHL is second fiddle. It doesn't mean one is better than the other as they both have their respected places.

Here is an example. Let us say your question was different instead of a controller you are asking which automation testing unit would we recommend. My first reply would be this:

@Shawn_epicurious do you already own a controller?

If you replied yes, Apex, then my reply would be for you to consider the trident. Why? Because you are already invested in the controller so it would be a lower cost entry point. I would then tell you my experience with it, the pro, the cons, etc. It uses reagents which some hate, others don't care, and some like.

On the other hand if your reply was no, you don't have one. Then I would reply differently. Apex has the trident, here is what it does, pros, cons, etc. Then I would say GHL is introducing their system and it they are using probes with reference fluids. I'd give you the link and say if you are shopping for controllers this is something to consider.

Then I would also include a third choice which is the Reef Bot. It is a reagent / test kit based system that automates the manual steps. There is a hobbyist list of which test kits work the and companies like Tropic Marin are packing up a specific test just for it due to its popularity while saving the hobbyist money. I think that is cool and have since moved from Two Part dosing (Alk/Cal) to their DIY tropic marin all for reef because of their support of our hobby.

So you see while I am an Neptune customer I can also step back and answer a question somewhat objectively. Hopefully this makes sense. Both are good and I don't think you can go wrong with either.

Note: I've not used GHL products but do like their aesthetics and build quality. I like Neptunes user interface and wizards to control. Probably the best selling feature along is the heatbeat monitor. That alone is worth the price which more or less lets Fusion application (web / cloud portal) ping your controller and if it is offline will email you. That could mean power failure (major) or network issue (minor). So you can act on it.

If you are a coder - I think you said a CPA - Reef Angel is going to require some basic understanding of code. The forums they have are very helpful and you will be able to get it going with little effort. They also have a wizard to get you going. But things like tidals, geo location, and more will require some work.

Hope this helps - have a great evening. And welcome to the controller club. Not mandatory but helpful. And as you grow so do the options to grow such as dosing and automatic water changes to name two.

Absolutely it helps! Thank you for taking the time to write this : )

 

[Webslinger]

I wasn’t being rude : ) I don’t have to guess... I already “know” you can dance circles around me on these tanks. My god you have been a member here since 2014! I’d like to say I’ll catch up to you someday. The truth is, I prolly won’t. Cuz youll still be doing it too : ) I have to travel professionally. I like the added benefit that my tank would be taken care of while I am gone.

I am a little curious about one thing though. This thread is dedicated to giving advice on Controllers. While I understand the things you said “are advice about controlling things” it’s almost like you want me to feel bad for wanting one...?

Thoughts?

Not at all the more things you can automate the better. I'm not putting you down at all, it's just amazing what a 30$ wifi powerstrip (controller haha) can do. If they could add a temp probe... it would put the overpriced apex out of business.

Apex's are nice don't get me wrong.

 

[SuncrestReef]

I think I just had a realization.... lol The way you guys both wrote those responses. There are things you “can’t“ come right out say aren’t there? Legal implication....

I'm not certain I fully understand your question, but there's nothing I'm not allowed to say. I have no affiliation with any of the controller companies, and I don't see any legal implications. The only reason I don't gush more about how much I like my Apex is so I don't get attacked as being a "fan boy" which happens a lot on various forums. And since I don't have any first-hand experience with the other brands of controllers, I can't say anything more about them than saying I know they are popular with a lot of users, and pointing you to resource links I'm aware of.