Recommendations please

[vetteguy53081]

I have a 200 gallon reef tank going. I am marching towards SPS. Everything I have and done so far is on my build thread.

this tank is 3 months old... mixed reef... mostly softies and fish. I have a good bio-load in it now... now I have to leave that part alone and allow it to mature. So... now I am refining my equipment. My next step is dosing, and a controller system.

my end goal for my tank is SPS dominant and a few clams.

I have a good budget for this and I don’t want to have to upgrade again in 6 months. I am going for full on digital control and testing. I have been googling what’s out there... Neptune’s look nice. But I want to hear from guys actually doing this if possible. What would you recommend?

I have three mixed reefs and I utilize dosing, Calcium reactor and skimmer. I highly recommend chemiPure Blue as softies WILL release toxins that affect the tissue of SPS. Learned this one the hard way. I use Apex controllers although not to the best capabilities but as outlet management, water flow, and light schedules.

 

[SPR1968]

Hi Shawn, I might be able to add some more food for thought here.

Firstly I love the principle of Neptune Apex control, the interface is very user friendly and the whole idea is very good. I have 2 completely independent systems on my 2 tanks, and am very happy with them for basic control. And Neptune customer support I’ve found excellent, because I've used it......

Now I think you’ve seen my system, especially the new 530usg one, and I went for full out control with Apex from the very design stages of the system, and have many pieces of equipment and add on sensors etc.

The interface with Vortechs and Radions is very good infact excellent

The problem I have found personally, that for basic functions like monitoring, turning things on and off from your phone etc, anywhere in the world its fine. But the additional sensors are just unreliable.

I get leak detectors triggering on a brand new system just filled with 2000 litres of water and switching a £1600 Abyzz a200 on/off every second or so for no reason other than possible moisture in the air, despite being sat on some paper towel to mitigate this. I now have a camera to monitor the leak detector to see if it’s actually wet. Basically a monitor to monitor the controller and the leak detector no longer controls anything other than an alarm.

I could go on and on here, optical sensors, FMM module, ATK but I’m not going to because I basically like Apex, but as and when the add on sensors fail or need replacement I won’t be replacing them unless critical to the basic system.

So my personal opinion is I wouldn’t want to be without Apex for monitoring, but would I trust it to automatically control critical functions, absolutely not.

 

[Shawn_epicurious]

Not at all the more things you can automate the better. I'm not putting you down at all, it's just amazing what a 30$ wifi powerstrip (controller haha) can do. If they could add a temp probe... it would put the overpriced apex out of business.

Apex's are nice don't get me wrong.

Thank you for that! I wish I had your experience : )

 

[Shawn_epicurious]

I'm not certain I fully understand your question, but there's nothing I'm not allowed to say. I have no affiliation with any of the controller companies, and I don't see any legal implications. The only reason I don't gush more about how much I like my Apex is so I don't get attacked as being a "fan boy" which happens a lot on various forums. And since I don't have any first-hand experience with the other brands of controllers, I can't say anything more about them than saying I know they are popular with a lot of users, and pointing you to resource links I'm aware of.

That wasn’t a rude comment. I loved your responses!!! I just got to thinking about this...

”Your honor... these two guy on a professional website told me to buy this specific set of gear... I did, everything died.... it’s their fault.... pay me”

 

[Shawn_epicurious]

Hi Shawn, I might be able to add some more food for thought here.

Firstly I love the principle of Neptune Apex control, the interface is very user friendly and the whole idea is very good. I have 2 completely independent systems on my 2 tanks, and am very happy with them for basic control. And Neptune customer support I’ve found excellent, because I've used it......

Now I think you’ve seen my system, especially the new 530usg one, and I went for full out control with Apex from the very design stages of the system, and have many pieces of equipment and add on sensors etc.

The interface with Vortechs and Radions is very good infact excellent

The problem I have found personally, that for basic functions like monitoring, turning things on and off from your phone etc, anywhere in the world its fine. But the additional sensors are just unreliable.

I get leak detectors triggering on a brand new system just filled with 2000 litres of water and switching a £1600 Abyzz a200 on/off every second or so for no reason other than possible moisture in the air, despite being sat on some paper towel to mitigate this. I now have a camera to monitor the leak detector to see if it’s actually wet. Basically a monitor to monitor the controller and the leak detector no longer controls anything other than an alarm.

I could go on and on here, optical sensors, FMM module, ATK but I’m not going to because I basically like Apex, but as and when the add on sensors fail or need replacement I won’t be replacing them unless critical to the basic system.

So my personal opinion is I wouldn’t want to be without Apex for monitoring, but would I trust it to automatically control critical functions, absolutely not.

This does make sense to me, and yes I have seen your tank : ) It’s friggin amazing!

Actually, I am not a fan of the optical sensors. I am looking for dosing control, temperature control and continuous testing of the water parameters. I really don’t like the test kits I have been using... ”add six drops, shake, add 6 different drops... wait three minutes.... now compare to a color... really? How can that be considered a “good” test? Also need to be able to travel occasionally... my son can handle feeding, he can’t handle the rest.

And to be perfectly honest, I know that I am inexperienced... it just seems like the controller can do things better than me... as long as I monitor what to it’s doing.

 

[Shawn_epicurious]

So... I have made a decision. I am going with the Neptune-Trident combination. : )

Can’t thank you guys enough!!!!

 

[Shawn_epicurious]

I have three mixed reefs and I utilize dosing, Calcium reactor and skimmer. I highly recommend chemiPure Blue as softies WILL release toxins that affect the tissue of SPS. Learned this one the hard way. I use Apex controllers although not to the best capabilities but as outlet management, water flow, and light schedules.

Oooohhhhh... that’s excellent advice! I had not read that anywhere yet (googling that right now)

 

[southerntnreefer]

I personally just bought a reef angel. I just couldn't sell my soul, and I like to tinker.

 

[Shawn_epicurious]

I personally just bought a reef angel. I just couldn't sell my soul, and I like to tinker.

I did look at the Reef Angel

 

[User1]

I personally just bought a reef angel. I just couldn't sell my soul, and I like to tinker.

With regards to the RA. There are some functions in the libraries that are just not possible with either GHL or Apex. Not knocking them but the whole checking for tides, locations, and storms based on the main loop is just too powerful.

Take Kessil for example, again not bashing, but if you look at their cloud or storm options they are at set intervals, daily. RA checks as part of the main loop and you may go a few days without clouds, storms, or lightning as an example.

You will like it - it is a great product. I switched two years back to Apex because I was interested in the Trident. If I wasn't using that chances are high I would still be using the RA. Still have it and may put it to control some lighting over my sump or a nano tank just for fun.

To the OP - you will like the Trident. It is a solid little unit. Best of luck!

 

[southerntnreefer]

With regards to the RA. There are some functions in the libraries that are just not possible with either GHL or Apex. Not knocking them but the whole checking for tides, locations, and storms based on the main loop is just too powerful.

Take Kessil for example, again not bashing, but if you look at their cloud or storm options they are at set intervals, daily. RA checks as part of the main loop and you may go a few days without clouds, storms, or lightning as an example.

You will like it - it is a great product. I switched two years back to Apex because I was interested in the Trident. If I wasn't using that chances are high I would still be using the RA. Still have it and may put it to control some lighting over my sump or a nano tank just for fun.

To the OP - you will like the Trident. It is a solid little unit. Best of luck!

I almost got apex, just for trident, but for the same reason I use Android, I just wanted more control, and reef angel will do that. I have Hanna checkers, and salifert, and I'm good with that. I actually bought reef octopus octopulse 2 powerheads just for the 0 to 10 capability for reef angel to do some tidal stuff there. The only thing I won't be able to control will be my AI hydra 32s but, no big deal.

I plan to harness the Alexa control too so I can setup feed modes water changes etc. I'm excited to get my hands dirty, as an IT guy by day, I'm generally curious, and want to know how it all works etc.

 

[Shawn_epicurious]

With regards to the RA. There are some functions in the libraries that are just not possible with either GHL or Apex. Not knocking them but the whole checking for tides, locations, and storms based on the main loop is just too powerful.

Take Kessil for example, again not bashing, but if you look at their cloud or storm options they are at set intervals, daily. RA checks as part of the main loop and you may go a few days without clouds, storms, or lightning as an example.

You will like it - it is a great product. I switched two years back to Apex because I was interested in the Trident. If I wasn't using that chances are high I would still be using the RA. Still have it and may put it to control some lighting over my sump or a nano tank just for fun.

To the OP - you will like the Trident. It is a solid little unit. Best of luck!

Lightning over your sump! That’s hilarious!

 

[Shawn_epicurious]

I almost got apex, just for trident, but for the same reason I use Android, I just wanted more control, and reef angel will do that. I have Hanna checkers, and salifert, and I'm good with that. I actually bought reef octopus octopulse 2 powerheads just for the 0 to 10 capability for reef angel to do some tidal stuff there. The only thing I won't be able to control will be my AI hydra 32s but, no big deal.

I plan to harness the Alexa control too so I can setup feed modes water changes etc. I'm excited to get my hands dirty, as an IT guy by day, I'm generally curious, and want to know how it all works etc.

That’s why you went with the Reef Angel... you are already an IT guy! That makes sense. I was actually a bit afraid of my own “IT” abilities with it.

 

[southerntnreefer]

That’s why you went with the Reef Angel... you are already an IT guy! That makes sense. I was actually a bit afraid of my own “IT” abilities with it.

My understanding is most of the "basics" though the portal, but I'm hoping to get deeper than. That. We shall see. Congrats o. The trident. It was a hard choice for me not to, but I'm holding out for GHL standalone options .

 

[User1]

Lightning over your sump! That’s hilarious!

:). Well, I should clarify a bit. I grow macro algae for my tangs. Maybe more like trying to establish a supply on my own. A bit of nutrient export while also feeding my Scopas and Lavender tang. I have been feeding tang heaven red (gracilaria parvispora) from indo pacific sea farms and they love it. They suggested that I look at my lighting and adjust based on the algae color and response so I don't burn or otherwise harm it. So the reef angel would allow me to plug and play my DIY led bar and adjust intensity or duration or both if needed.

 

[Shawn_epicurious]

:). Well, I should clarify a bit. I grow macro algae for my tangs. Maybe more like trying to establish a supply on my own. A bit of nutrient export while also feeding my Scopas and Lavender tang. I have been feeding tang heaven red (gracilaria parvispora) from indo pacific sea farms and they love it. They suggested that I look at my lighting and adjust based on the algae color and response so I don't burn or otherwise harm it. So the reef angel would allow me to plug and play my DIY led bar and adjust intensity or duration or both if needed.

And here I was imaging lighting bolts going off under my cabinet!! Lol (thinking... does he have a speaker under there too? )

I have not gotten around to a refugium yet. Imma run outta room under there if I’m not careful. I already had to put my water barrel and RODI system in the laundry room

 

[southerntnreefer]

:). Well, I should clarify a bit. I grow macro algae for my tangs. Maybe more like trying to establish a supply on my own. A bit of nutrient export while also feeding my Scopas and Lavender tang. I have been feeding tang heaven red (gracilaria parvispora) from indo pacific sea farms and they love it. They suggested that I look at my lighting and adjust based on the algae color and response so I don't burn or otherwise harm it. So the reef angel would allow me to plug and play my DIY led bar and adjust intensity or duration or both if needed.

What LED are you using for Macros if i might ask? my plan was to employ the Tunze ecochic as my sumps built in chamber is small, so any bigger light and im asking for light bleed, and a nasty sump, but i like control!

 

[User1]

What LED are you using for Macros if i might ask? my plan was to employ the Tunze ecochic as my sumps built in chamber is small, so any bigger light and im asking for light bleed, and a nasty sump, but i like control!

I'm using a DIY multi channel from blue acro. I had a spare Mega3Z 20K pro sitting around so I mounted it on a 6 x 4 inch heat sink. I was going to use it for a nano tank I'm working but but figured this would be better. I can use the Reef Angel to adjust both intensity or spectrum which I think would help me from damaging the algae.

If that didn't work out I was going to try the tunze 6500k led fixture. It seems to be able to provide enough light to maintain healthy algae without nuking / burning it. That is my main concern with some of the other lights typically used.

Not sure of the end result as this is something I'm just now working out to test.

 

[mitch91175]

So... I have made a decision. I am going with the Neptune-Trident combination. : )

Can’t thank you guys enough!!!!

Great you have narrowed down to getting this combo, but I will through out some concerns with this combo. If your Apex unit dies, you’ll loose all functionality, everything. If you have a bad Apex module, you’ll loose everything.

I’ve owned a Trident and will say it was easy to setup. Measured the 3 parameters ok. The things that made me get rid of mine were:

1. If my Apex died, no more measurements until the Apex was replaced
2. I was gonna be locked into the task of sourcing the limited supply of the reagent
3. Overall long term cost for my setup didn’t really make much sense. I run a calcium reactor and there wasn’t that need to measure calcium/magnesium nearly as much
4. The Trident just felt like a cheap piece of plastic that was thrown together.
5. Any bubbles in your sump will through off measurements. It is very sensitive
6. Design wise makes it difficult to mount so it has to be placed appropriately

You might ask why I purchased it, well just wanted to compare it to my Alkatronic. The Alkatronic might have its flaws just like the next device, but you have so much more flexibility with that unit in comparison for the long term cost associated with testing. Now I even make my own reagent (using HCL muriatic acid you can buy from Lowe’s or HomeDepot) plus if my Apex does decide to take a crap I still can run it without the Apex.

Someone mentioned using smart outlets in the thread. Even if you are purchasing an Apex, I’d also recommend getting some of those as well. They are super easy to setup and they can be used in conjunction with the Apex. I have a bunch of equipment on my system and didn’t want to need to run the amount of EB832s necessary for things like MP40 power when I use the WXM to connect them to the Apex. So I have those plugged into a smart outlet for power.

I learned the hard way about putting everything into the Apex basket. Bad module completely erased my Apex programming and after that I told myself never again. Yeah I do have a lot of programming still today, but I can easily remove everything from the Apex and plug them into a smart outlet and not think twice. I would miss the Apex UI, but that isn’t the deal breaker for me personally.

Also later this year Focustronic will come out with the Mastertronic. It’ll measure calcium, magnesium, phosphates, and alkalinity if you choose to and Urea utilizing off-the-shelf reagents.

With the Alkatronic I can leave for months and as long as I don’t have any issues with the tank or unit itself, it’ll maintain my dKH since I determine how much reagent I want to have in the container. Not a predetermined amount that has to be sourced.

Just a little bit more for you to digest.

 

[Shawn_epicurious]

Great you have narrowed down to getting this combo, but I will through out some concerns with this combo. If your Apex unit dies, you’ll loose all functionality, everything. If you have a bad Apex module, you’ll loose everything.

I’ve owned a Trident and will say it was easy to setup. Measured the 3 parameters ok. The things that made me get rid of mine were:

1. If my Apex died, no more measurements until the Apex was replaced
2. I was gonna be locked into the task of sourcing the limited supply of the reagent
3. Overall long term cost for my setup didn’t really make much sense. I run a calcium reactor and there wasn’t that need to measure calcium/magnesium nearly as much
4. The Trident just felt like a cheap piece of plastic that was thrown together.
5. Any bubbles in your sump will through off measurements. It is very sensitive
6. Design wise makes it difficult to mount so it has to be placed appropriately

You might ask why I purchased it, well just wanted to compare it to my Alkatronic. The Alkatronic might have its flaws just like the next device, but you have so much more flexibility with that unit in comparison for the long term cost associated with testing. Now I even make my own reagent (using HCL muriatic acid you can buy from Lowe’s or HomeDepot) plus if my Apex does decide to take a crap I still can run it without the Apex.

Someone mentioned using smart outlets in the thread. Even if you are purchasing an Apex, I’d also recommend getting some of those as well. They are super easy to setup and they can be used in conjunction with the Apex. I have a bunch of equipment on my system and didn’t want to need to run the amount of EB832s necessary for things like MP40 power when I use the WXM to connect them to the Apex. So I have those plugged into a smart outlet for power.

I learned the hard way about putting everything into the Apex basket. Bad module completely erased my Apex programming and after that I told myself never again. Yeah I do have a lot of programming still today, but I can easily remove everything from the Apex and plug them into a smart outlet and not think twice. I would miss the Apex UI, but that isn’t the deal breaker for me personally.

Also later this year Focustronic will come out with the Mastertronic. It’ll measure calcium, magnesium, phosphates, and alkalinity if you choose to and Urea utilizing off-the-shelf reagents.

With the Alkatronic I can leave for months and as long as I don’t have any issues with the tank or unit itself, it’ll maintain my dKH since I determine how much reagent I want to have in the container. Not a predetermined amount that has to be sourced.

Just a little bit more for you to digest.

Nice write up! You did put some new thoughts in my head : ) I do understand the risks of putting all my eggs in one basket. I honestly have not decided yet how deep into putting “everything” on it I want to go. It is tough resisting that urge... I don’t want my heaters on it. I’ve read they can burnout the plugins. I am still undecided on Kalk. It’s the testing capabilities that I really like more than anything else. And considering my level of experience, having the dosing system connected to it just made sense.