Miami Reef
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Red Sea Pro vs Hanna vs API for Nitrates
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brandon429
what, exactly, are you doing in your avatar
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This is a good one to save for future examples. In 100% of diagnostic threads, be it cycling diagnostics, dinos battles / bleaching issues, the reefer reports a parameter level and the umpires make a diagnostic call from those offers. Check the threads, nobody challenges stated levels they are accepted by all parties (the last few years we’ve lightened up on accusing cycles of being stalled based on what api ammonia says, it only took forty years)
same thing happens with phosphate tweaking
Go check, it’s underway right now. Threads like these show the actual unimportance of testing in reefing in my opinion.
Little known to us: we’ve been horseshoeing this game the whole time. You’re hitting the majors like temp, specific gravity if you’re lucky and calibrated, but past those two params I honestly think we just confirmation bias our way through this
Readers of this thread, watch this week how many times you see a fixer accept a stated level without any issues. It’s 99% of any troubleshooting thread for any topic in reefing. These threads that show massive disparity in hobby kits only have a short effect, by next week we will be back to accepting any stated levels.
same thing happens with phosphate tweaking
Go check, it’s underway right now. Threads like these show the actual unimportance of testing in reefing in my opinion.
Little known to us: we’ve been horseshoeing this game the whole time. You’re hitting the majors like temp, specific gravity if you’re lucky and calibrated, but past those two params I honestly think we just confirmation bias our way through this
Readers of this thread, watch this week how many times you see a fixer accept a stated level without any issues. It’s 99% of any troubleshooting thread for any topic in reefing. These threads that show massive disparity in hobby kits only have a short effect, by next week we will be back to accepting any stated levels.
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Scottiemac
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No, I use Fauna Marin Balling for alkalinity. They say no sodium nitrate in that.
Miami Reef
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I asked because if you did, you could make a nitrate standard and see which kit is most accurate.
When it is flashing, do not stop it, let it sit for as long as it wants to do its thing. It is trying to calibrate/zero the cuvette, as someone has already written in this thread. It stores the calibration value for the cuvette with sample (no reagent) in the memory as reference, and next time you want to run the tests, if it sees a significant difference, it will try to re-run this calibration again. If you don't let it do its flashing to completion, it may give a wrong reading when you do the test, and it will try to calibrate again every next time. If you let it complete, next time it should not be trying to do that again.
Having said this - what color is the sample when you take it out from the checker after completion of the test? For 5ppm it should be light pink-orange, whereas for 50ppm range it will be very dark
Having said this - what color is the sample when you take it out from the checker after completion of the test? For 5ppm it should be light pink-orange, whereas for 50ppm range it will be very dark
Scottiemac
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The action the checker takes going from C1 to C2 is the same whether I let it take 25 seconds or four seconds.
If I let it run for 25 seconds or more, it means it's having trouble finding that calibration/zero point. If it runs for 4 seconds it didn't have trouble finding it.
It's like Where's Waldo. Sometimes it takes me a few minutes to find him. Other times I find him right away. Either way, I've found him.
Letting it take the full 25 seconds (or more, as I don't wait for it) just means the entire test will take 21 more seconds than if it took 4 seconds.
I should be getting new reagents later today and we'll see what they say.
No, it's not. When doing 4 seconds, it quickly checks whether it is getting a similar reading as the stored value. If it sees there is a significant difference, it wants to update the stored value, and since this is a sort of calibration, it wants to take thousands readings before it stores the result for future comparisons. Just let it complete this stage.
You didn't reply about the sample color after completion of the test. Is it dark, or light? You could check it against the same color scale as with your manual test
You didn't reply about the sample color after completion of the test. Is it dark, or light? You could check it against the same color scale as with your manual test
Silly clownfish
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Maybe check Hanna corvette is really clean and not stained? I have found that sometimes when it is having a hard time zeroing there are some solids in the water, or the vial is otherwise not perfectly clear. So it struggles to zero. That could also impact the reading.
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Most aquarium Nitrate Test kits including Hanna use a fine zinc powder to convert nitrate into nitrite for detection. Bottle #2 of the API test contains the suspended powder. Their instruction, “Vigorously shake the Nitrate Test Solution #2 for at least 30 seconds. This step is extremely important to insure accuracy of test results.”
In my opinion, this does not go far enough, especially when the bottle has been sitting for a while. Many moons ago when I used API, I discovered that a poorly performing kit had a layer of metallic material stuck to the bottom of Bottle #2. Getting that material back into suspension required about 5 minutes of vigorous shaking and banging of the bottle on a hard surface. With the material back into suspension, the sensitivity of the test improved greatly.
Give bottle #2 a good mix, and try the test again. Hopefully this will give you a result closer to Hanna.
I’m not sure why your Hanna wants to keep recalibrating, but I think your Hanna tester result is probably correct. It’s quite subjective, but as a sanity check the Hanna cuvette at 55ppm should have a distinct red color at the end of the test. At 5-8ppm, the cuvette would only have a slight pale red color.
FM uses a similar testing method, and their instructions state, “Shake the bottle with test reagent B vigorously in a horizontal direction for approx. 30 seconds (the reagent must be wellshaken).”
I don't know exactly how the Mastertronic tester works. But keep in mind that when these Nitrate reagents are used in an automated tester where they are not shaken per the instructions during the test, it’s simply not possible to get an accurate Nitrate reading.
In my opinion, this does not go far enough, especially when the bottle has been sitting for a while. Many moons ago when I used API, I discovered that a poorly performing kit had a layer of metallic material stuck to the bottom of Bottle #2. Getting that material back into suspension required about 5 minutes of vigorous shaking and banging of the bottle on a hard surface. With the material back into suspension, the sensitivity of the test improved greatly.
Give bottle #2 a good mix, and try the test again. Hopefully this will give you a result closer to Hanna.
I’m not sure why your Hanna wants to keep recalibrating, but I think your Hanna tester result is probably correct. It’s quite subjective, but as a sanity check the Hanna cuvette at 55ppm should have a distinct red color at the end of the test. At 5-8ppm, the cuvette would only have a slight pale red color.
FM uses a similar testing method, and their instructions state, “Shake the bottle with test reagent B vigorously in a horizontal direction for approx. 30 seconds (the reagent must be wellshaken).”
I don't know exactly how the Mastertronic tester works. But keep in mind that when these Nitrate reagents are used in an automated tester where they are not shaken per the instructions during the test, it’s simply not possible to get an accurate Nitrate reading.
I think follow you and yes, most of us assume test results shared in trouble shooting threads are reasonable except magnesium. The one I always question is Hanna alkalinity if results and dosing don’t make sense. That’s because I’ve been burned (corals, actually) by alkalinity reagent going bad. It has a shorter shelf life after opening than people realize.
People who really know what they are doing don’t sweat specific numbers in hobby test kits, with a few exceptions. Stability anywhere in a fairly broad range is usually the right answer.
I avoid conflicting test data by only using one kind of test :)
Yes, there is a thread here about Hanna checker alkalinity reagent going bad. The trick is to store it in the fridge immediately after opening and only take out for the duration of the test. It is still going bad even in the fridge, but much slower. Providing you are doing at least one test per week, the deviation is still tolerable by the time the bottle is empty.
Yes, I store in the fridge now, and all the all other stuff. But I just got 3 alkalinity tests in a row exactly 8.7, so I am highly suspicious and will open a fresh bottle. Not screwing things up again….
This is a digression from the topic, but yes, the Alkalinity checker is probably worst in the whole range (at least in what I am using, i.e. phosphate ULR, Nitrate HR, magnesium, and silica). Much better to use a titration-based test for alkalinity, either manual or automatic. I also did not buy their calcium checker, as I find the test procedure too complicated. IMO it's much easier to do the titration based test, the color change is sharp and clear and the results are always consistent (I have been using Red Sea Pro)
Yes, alk color change is not as sharp. I switched over to automatic testing. I had actually started designing my own tester as I didn't like what was available (different reasons for all if the many different models) but then realized that I will not be able to fund sufficient time to finish it in this lifetime, and purchased KH Director. I am still unhappy with GHL on the ways how they do things, but it does the job, and mostly without intervention (which includes occasional pH electrode calibration and refilling the reagent - which is very cheap if you DIY it). Still would like to design my own - perhaps when I retire (although I am sure there will be much better ways to handle that by that time).
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