That's a tough one. Do the FW dip, see if any flukes come off and count how many. We can go from there.
Red spot on Pyramid, treat now or wait?
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That's a tough one. Do the FW dip, see if any flukes come off and count how many. We can go from there.
Ok, did the FW dip this morning. Right before that, the fish was vigorously eating pellets. I didn't see any obvious flukes, but there were a few specs of white stuff floating in the bowl, but having seen small flukes before, I don't think there were any. If I missed any, there could not be many of them, and I think I can wait for the 10 days of meds to complete and then follow-up with Prazipro, right?
Before the dip, I did notice that the eye that was beginning to cloud up was clearer this morning. Could the two days of combined meds and acriflavine dips be showing results this quickly?
I am letting the fish recover from the FW dip, and will do a MB dip later today. Other than that, I'll just keep dosing meds and watching.
Before the dip, I did notice that the eye that was beginning to cloud up was clearer this morning. Could the two days of combined meds and acriflavine dips be showing results this quickly?
I am letting the fish recover from the FW dip, and will do a MB dip later today. Other than that, I'll just keep dosing meds and watching.
melypr1985
totally addicted
Yes, I'd say you can wait on the prazi. It's encouraging to see positive results this quickly with the eye infection.... it could simply be his own immune system handling it, but the antibiotics are likely helping some and will help more as the treatment goes on.
Eyes are both clear this morning, now on day 3 of meds. The other fish still appears to be fine. I skipped the MB bath yesterday, wanted to let both fish recover from the FW dip, and will do that MB bath today.
melypr1985
totally addicted
Don't stop the meds early even if they look 100% better by tomorrow. Keep them going for the full 10 days
Thanks Meredith, meds for full 10 days, and then if all is well, I will start the two rounds of prazi.
Since I am not running copper at the moment, I am also keeping a keen eye out for anything else that might show up ... then I will have to decide if I want to run copper, or sit out the rest of a 30-day observation period. What's your opinion on that?
Since I am not running copper at the moment, I am also keeping a keen eye out for anything else that might show up ... then I will have to decide if I want to run copper, or sit out the rest of a 30-day observation period. What's your opinion on that?
melypr1985
totally addicted
I don't like observation alone, but that's mostly because I tend to be too busy to sit and watch the fish like I should. If you have the time and are detail oriented enough for it, then you can certainly do that. It just never works for me... I have the detail oriented part, but not the time
I also no longer like observing-only, because I'm afraid of "carriers". Some fish (especially fish like wrasses and mandarins with thick slime coats) can carry parasites with little to no visible symptoms. For me, this was a lesson learned the hard way...
I didn't prophylactically treat two of my fish...a kole tang and a mandarin. I'm now in my second round of QT for ich Not 100% sure which fish it hitched in on originally, but I suspect the mandarin since the kole never had symptoms in QT but did develop some in the display.
Now every fish will be treated, and hopefully I can get the parasite out of my tank for good!
I didn't prophylactically treat two of my fish...a kole tang and a mandarin. I'm now in my second round of QT for ich
Not 100% sure which fish it hitched in on originally, but I suspect the mandarin since the kole never had symptoms in QT but did develop some in the display.Now every fish will be treated, and hopefully I can get the parasite out of my tank for good!
Thanks for the comments. I've been following your saga, and it is what has actually gotten me to question my approach. I've been stocking up a 220 DT over the last 6 months, and have done QT on everything for at least 30 days, with:I didn't prophylactically treat two of my fish...a kole tang and a mandarin. I'm now in my second round of QT for ich
Now every fish will be treated, and hopefully I can get the parasite out of my tank for good!
- FW dip for flukes
- metro added to the food for about two weeks
- two rounds of prazi
- careful observation
- treat with copper and meds if the need emerges (have had to do this about six times now, almost all in the last month)
- fatten them up with selcon soaked pellets, live blackworms, LRS reef frenzy, algae wafers
I've been reluctant to prophylactically treat with copper, mostly because I do not want to stress the fish that much, unless I have to. If I could find CP, I would do it. I did try the ebay CP after my first case of ich showed up during QT, but it didn't work and I had to resort to copper in that case.
I have been lucky in that 80% of the fish that have arrived have had no issues that I know of; they went through QT just fine. I have tried to only source fish from DD, or my LFS, and I don't know how much that has helped. I do know that my success rate is lower for fish sourced from other places, but I don't know if that was just luck, or something else.
My recent experience has me wondering though. The last few new arrivals have almost all had problems. I'm nearing the end of my stocking phase, and I would kick myself if something entered the tank now, so I am considering taking the precaution of copper ...
I mean, I think that's a personal decision. And with butterflies and tangs I think you are more likely to see symptoms during observation. I will say, with the outbreaks I've had my leopard wrasse has NEVER had a single spot, no heavy breathing, no flashing, nothing. Neither has the mandarin. Many of the other fish only had very mild symptoms and maybe a spot or two at a time...easy to miss. So, if you do choose observation only be very careful and keep an eye out for behavioral symptoms as well as spots or appearance changes.
Thanks for that. I watch them like a hawk, since I work from home. What I am less comfortable about now is the fact that I absolutely know that I am getting sick fish delivered, whereas before, I watched and waited. It has worked out so far, and I am close to done stocking the majority of fish. And I have 5 QT tanks running that I can't wait to move out of the way. But then I read your story, and I think about what you are going through again, and I stop and think ...
Thanks again for taking the time to share your thoughts. Everyone here has been so helpful, I will be on the lookout for opportunities to contribute too.
Thanks again for taking the time to share your thoughts. Everyone here has been so helpful, I will be on the lookout for opportunities to contribute too.
Today is the 10th day of kanaplex/furan-2/metro. The fish is demonstrating healthy behavior, eating well. I've been feeding live black worms and vitamin-soaked pellets to boost the immune system. The spot has gotten a little smaller, but it's still there.
I know that antibiotics are notoriously slow acting on fish. I know that I can go 14 days with these meds. I'm not expecting the spot to be cleared by the end of the 14 day period. I'm trying to plan ahead a bit: what's the next course of action on this?
I found NGP in small quantities, and will have that in my hands in a couple of days - shall I try a round of that next? Or just wait and see what happens after the current meds are done, with the hope that the immune system will conquer it?
I know that antibiotics are notoriously slow acting on fish. I know that I can go 14 days with these meds. I'm not expecting the spot to be cleared by the end of the 14 day period. I'm trying to plan ahead a bit: what's the next course of action on this?
I found NGP in small quantities, and will have that in my hands in a couple of days - shall I try a round of that next? Or just wait and see what happens after the current meds are done, with the hope that the immune system will conquer it?
mcarroll
10K Club member
@foxt Something to think about – could make the treatment regime make more sense. If you're buying mostly online, following the typical stocking plan you'd be likely to find online, and you've got very little experience with fish, then you're starting off in what could be the worst possible situation. Arguably it's not possible for you to be conservative enough when you're in that position.
After you order your fish, you're committed to the quality they have in stock at that time for every single fish. Feels good because you pulled the trigger, but.... You have no ability to select a different individual, no ability to notice that his tank mates act funny, no ability to notice that little red spot, no ability to notice that the fish got trapped between the net and the aquarium during capture causing the bruise and infection....no ability for anything at all except to be there when they arrive. It's s tough position. Very limited. And I don't think most folks even know they're getting themselves into it, or that there are alternatives. Good to at least know!!
After you order your fish, you're committed to the quality they have in stock at that time for every single fish. Feels good because you pulled the trigger, but.... You have no ability to select a different individual, no ability to notice that his tank mates act funny, no ability to notice that little red spot, no ability to notice that the fish got trapped between the net and the aquarium during capture causing the bruise and infection....no ability for anything at all except to be there when they arrive. It's s tough position. Very limited. And I don't think most folks even know they're getting themselves into it, or that there are alternatives. Good to at least know!!
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Thanks for the comments, @mcarroll
I agree with everything you said. Buying online is not my preference, but my options are very limited. The closest LFS is Petco, and a very limited one at that (6 tanks of clown fish). The nearest quality LFS is more than two hours away, with a decent selection of fish, some of the time. They won't special order for me unless I commit to buying the fish, no matter how it looks when it comes in. For the specific species I want to keep, my only realistic option is to buy online.
I try to limit my online purchases to Divers Den, where I at least get to see what the fish looks like, and have some reasonable expectation that it's been cared for beyond whatever a wholesaler will do. I've actually had pretty good luck with DD, although the last few fish have come in with problems. This pyramid has that red spot, and a small bellus before that came in with a fuzzy spot which isn't responding to any meds so far. I've been stocking a 220G since April, QTing everything that comes in, and dealing with whatever issues have come up. I'd say 80% of the fish have been perfect, the rest have been routine ich and fluke issues.
It's the infections that make me nervous, since they seem to be a crap shoot in terms of what will work, and what won't. I've kept marine aquariums since the 80's, but took a break for several years (work, family, physical space just didn't work out). Back when I started, there were fewer treatment options, and no internet, so I'm thrilled to see the way that resources have developed, and am taking advantage of places like this to keep learning!
Speaking of which, you mentioned "that there are alternatives" - such as?
I agree with everything you said. Buying online is not my preference, but my options are very limited. The closest LFS is Petco, and a very limited one at that (6 tanks of clown fish). The nearest quality LFS is more than two hours away, with a decent selection of fish, some of the time. They won't special order for me unless I commit to buying the fish, no matter how it looks when it comes in. For the specific species I want to keep, my only realistic option is to buy online.
I try to limit my online purchases to Divers Den, where I at least get to see what the fish looks like, and have some reasonable expectation that it's been cared for beyond whatever a wholesaler will do. I've actually had pretty good luck with DD, although the last few fish have come in with problems. This pyramid has that red spot, and a small bellus before that came in with a fuzzy spot which isn't responding to any meds so far. I've been stocking a 220G since April, QTing everything that comes in, and dealing with whatever issues have come up. I'd say 80% of the fish have been perfect, the rest have been routine ich and fluke issues.
It's the infections that make me nervous, since they seem to be a crap shoot in terms of what will work, and what won't. I've kept marine aquariums since the 80's, but took a break for several years (work, family, physical space just didn't work out). Back when I started, there were fewer treatment options, and no internet, so I'm thrilled to see the way that resources have developed, and am taking advantage of places like this to keep learning!
Speaking of which, you mentioned "that there are alternatives" - such as?
melypr1985
totally addicted
I would wait it out, but it's a great idea to have NGP on hand especially with butterflies around. If, after the 14 days of antibiotics, the spot has continued to reduce in size but hasn't disappeared all the way yet, then I would continue the treatment for a few more days. If it hasn't changed at all or starts to get worse again, then go with the NGP.
mcarroll
10K Club member
Was speaking about alternative ways to stock a tank other than what you generally see. Again you're a little limited if you have to shop online...you have an implicit need to fill a box for shipping. As a result you get (at least in most cases) more fish than would really be good to add to a tank all at once. (Lots of folks do almost the same thing even if they shop locally.) There are inherent problems with the usual strategy, but in general we just repeat them and plow through the fixes everyone else needed too as best we can.
(I guess this is off-topic from red spots....PM me if you want!)
Ok, day 14 of kanaplex/furan-2/metro. The spot is not completely gone, but it has gotten smaller. Hard to tell from the pictures, but it is starting to look more like a scar or scab, than an infection.
Meredith suggested earlier that I can go a few more days beyond day 14, and I think I will do that, then pull the meds and wait and see what happens.
Meredith suggested earlier that I can go a few more days beyond day 14, and I think I will do that, then pull the meds and wait and see what happens.
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