"Reef Safe" Vendors

[Daniel@R2R Verified Admin]

Ok, a few things.

1) The discussion about the vendor who was at the show needs to end. We don't need to know more about that individual.
2) The discussion in this thread needs to stay on the topic of keeping kids safe and the proposed plan.

Thanks everyone! I know emotions run high, but we've got to keep it focused and respectful.

 

[helen ann]

What’s the criteria to be a safe attendee? Do I qualify? I got a parking ticket once. Hopefully they let me in :eek:

I am not trying to infringe on anyone’s rights. I am sorry if you feel I am.

It is apparently a bad idea and not needed based off the responses and I am ok with that.

Happy Reefing!

 

[Silver14SS]

Ok, a few things.

1) The discussion about the vendor who was at the show needs to end. We don't need to know more about that individual.
2) The discussion in this thread needs to stay on the topic of keeping kids safe and the proposed plan.

Thanks everyone! I know emotions run high, but we've got to keep it focused and respectful.

It sounds like they may already do a great job of keeping kids safe if there have been no incidences at these Florida Frag Swap events. Hopefully that stays the case with or without implementing additional programs.

 

[Daniel@R2R Verified Admin]

In the spirit of helping to remind everyone how this discussion needs to proceed, the following is from our terms of service:

Please think before you post and keep your comments limited to the topic at hand and above all be nice. If you come across any violations to these guidelines or have any problems navigating the site, do not hesitate to let us know through the Forums Contact Form or the Report Post button. We'll be happy to address your concerns. We encourage everyone to participate in and enjoy the Community while at the same time adhering to these rules:

Be Courteous:

• We aim to ensure that the forum is an enjoyable place that you want to visit time and time again. Our underlying philosophy is that the strength of the member relationships we build here is what sets us apart from the other boards - we are friendlier, more civil, more insightful, more mature and more fun.
• R2R encourages the beneficial exchange of information, ideas, and opinions and we expect members to do so respectfully and thoughtfully. Personal attacks on others will not be tolerated.
• Do not post unsubstantiated gossip, libelous remarks or directly misleading information.
• Trolling or cyber-bullying are NOT allowed and are grounds for account restriction or banishment. Harassment, stalking or predatory behavior will result in account suspension.
• The language of this forum is English. If you are not a native English speaker, do your best. We are glad to have you as a member and will be supportive and polite.
• Be mindful of yourself and others. This forum is not a democracy; it is privately owned. If rules are violated we retain the right at our discretion to remove, edit or delete posts and, if necessary, ban or remove members. Any abuse toward our staff may/will result in immediate suspension of your account. Complaints about moderator decisions may not be made in posts; instead send a private message to a moderator. If a moderator deletes or edits one of your posts and you disagree with the action, contact the moderator concerned. Do not repost deleted material.
• We take the "be nice" rule VERY seriously! We do not tolerate ANY rudeness.

Like I said, this discussion evokes high emotions. I completely understand, but the staff has had to remove more than a few comments that have been accusatory and disrespectful of other members. Please help us by keeping the conversation moving in the right direction.

 

[helen ann]

I think I've asked 3 or 4 times now, if there was no incident, why were they even researched after the fact?

And what's the criteria to be accepted into the safe squad to get the "not a felon" badge?

I am not proposing that badges identifying a vendor as a felon or not a felon. I am asking that a certain area(s) be marked as a safe place, that those people working that area be checked. Will it make a difference having that area, I don’t know but what does it hurt? People posted that this would attract people to that area ... guess the same could be said of all the other places that do it, right? ‍

 

[tripdad]

As far as your idea of a safe place to go to is concerned, what about a uniformed officer? Kids are taught to trust/go to police officers and they have been vetted. I would pay a few extra bucks to put an officer at the door for this purpose.

 

[TheHarold]

As far as your idea of a safe place to go to is concerned, what about a uniformed officer? Kids are taught to trust/go to police officers and they have been vetted. I would pay a few extra bucks to put an officer at the door for this purpose.

That is what I suggested as well. Isn’t it required at events with over a certain amount of people to hire a security Guard?

 

[Silver14SS]

I am not proposing that badges identifying a vendor as a felon or not a felon. I am asking that a certain area(s) be marked as a safe place, that those people working that area be checked. Will it make a difference having that area, I don’t know but what does it hurt? People posted that this would attract people to that area ... guess the same could be said of all the other places that do it, right? ‍♀

I was being hyperbolic about the signage and stickers for individuals, but am genuinely curious what the passing criteria is. I assume anyone without a sticker will be somewhat ostracized for not having one. Maybe a common space not associated with specific vendors would accomplish the same thing. It may also lead to confusion having multiple spaces instead of one easily accessed, managed, and monitored space.

I'm sure there are studies out there that discuss how effective approaches like this are to answer your question of "what does it hurt" but I'm ignorant about the data. To rephrase your question, what does it help if there are no incidences to date? Sounds like whatever is in place already is working wonderfully.

 

[helen ann]

Yes, an officer at the door is a great idea, are shows willing to pay that? I don’t know as when I suggested that people to got upset; show host didn’t want to pay nor did attendees want raised ticket prices.

That being said, having a guard there won’t stop someone from removing a child without the bands.

 

[helen ann]

I was being hyperbolic about the signage and stickers for individuals, but am genuinely curious what the passing criteria is. I assume anyone without a sticker will be somewhat ostracized for not having one. Maybe a common space not associated with specific vendors would accomplish the same thing. It may also lead to confusion having multiple spaces instead of one easily accessed, managed, and monitored space.

I'm sure there are studies out there that discuss how effective approaches like this are to answer your question of "what does it hurt" but I'm ignorant about the data. To rephrase your question, what does it help if there are no incidences to date? Sounds like whatever is in place already is working wonderfully.

The thought with multiple stations is some of the shows are quite large and are like a maze, so having a child wondering around trying to find one was my concern.

 

[helen ann]

I was being hyperbolic about the signage and stickers for individuals, but am genuinely curious what the passing criteria is. I assume anyone without a sticker will be somewhat ostracized for not having one. Maybe a common space not associated with specific vendors would accomplish the same thing. It may also lead to confusion having multiple spaces instead of one easily accessed, managed, and monitored space.

I'm sure there are studies out there that discuss how effective approaches like this are to answer your question of "what does it hurt" but I'm ignorant about the data. To rephrase your question, what does it help if there are no incidences to date? Sounds like whatever is in place already is working wonderfully.

There is nothing currently nothing in place at any show that I am aware of and I have been to at least 9 shows this year and I know at those shows nothing was in place.

 

[CheckeredPants]

It’s always been my outlook that murderers, rapists, and child molesters are a group that should be held accountable for their actions indefinitely. Hearing the counter arguments like “what’s next, I got a parking ticket, does that mean I can’t be a vendor” is counterproductive to the conversation.

In my initial post I brought up Magic the Gathering expos. Because of the awareness that was brought to national attention that there were sex offenders among their vendors at conventions, they now have background checks conducted on all vendors that participate in such events and anyone deemed a sex offender by a court of law is no longer allowed to work at their events. They are not excluded from attending since there events are open to the public much like reefing conventions, but there is now an added layer of safety in knowing that at least there aren’t sexual predators hosting/working at them.

 

[mrpizzaface]

We should be ca

In the spirit of helping to remind everyone how this discussion needs to proceed, the following is from our terms of service:

Please think before you post and keep your comments limited to the topic at hand and above all be nice. If you come across any violations to these guidelines or have any problems navigating the site, do not hesitate to let us know through the Forums Contact Form or the Report Post button. We'll be happy to address your concerns. We encourage everyone to participate in and enjoy the Community while at the same time adhering to these rules:

Be Courteous:

• We aim to ensure that the forum is an enjoyable place that you want to visit time and time again. Our underlying philosophy is that the strength of the member relationships we build here is what sets us apart from the other boards - we are friendlier, more civil, more insightful, more mature and more fun.
• R2R encourages the beneficial exchange of information, ideas, and opinions and we expect members to do so respectfully and thoughtfully. Personal attacks on others will not be tolerated.
• Do not post unsubstantiated gossip, libelous remarks or directly misleading information.
• Trolling or cyber-bullying are NOT allowed and are grounds for account restriction or banishment. Harassment, stalking or predatory behavior will result in account suspension.
• The language of this forum is English. If you are not a native English speaker, do your best. We are glad to have you as a member and will be supportive and polite.
• Be mindful of yourself and others. This forum is not a democracy; it is privately owned. If rules are violated we retain the right at our discretion to remove, edit or delete posts and, if necessary, ban or remove members. Any abuse toward our staff may/will result in immediate suspension of your account. Complaints about moderator decisions may not be made in posts; instead send a private message to a moderator. If a moderator deletes or edits one of your posts and you disagree with the action, contact the moderator concerned. Do not repost deleted material.
• We take the "be nice" rule VERY seriously! We do not tolerate ANY rudeness.

Like I said, this discussion evokes high emotions. I completely understand, but the staff has had to remove more than a few comments that have been accusatory and disrespectful of other members. Please help us by keeping the conversation moving in the right direction.

I think this “reef safe” thread is misleading in its premise.
I don’t think it is intentionally misleading.
When one proposes rules to keep children safe, they are also making the implication that the current situation isn’t safe or safe enough.

I would like to here examples of how this event wasn’t safe.
If examples are unable to be provided I have a hard time seeing this thread as anything but misleading, and contributing to the culture of fear mongering, so pervasive in our society.

 

[helen ann]

It’s always been my outlook that murderers, rapists, and child molesters are a group that should be held accountable for their actions indefinitely. Hearing the counter arguments like “what’s next, I got a parking ticket, does that mean I can’t be a vendor” is counterproductive to the conversation.

In my initial post I brought up Magic the Gathering expos. Because of the awareness that was brought to national attention that there were sex offenders among their vendors at conventions, they now have background checks conducted on all vendors that participate in such events and anyone deemed a sex offender by a court of law is no longer allowed to work at their events. They are not excluded from attending since there events are open to the public much like reefing conventions, but there is now an added layer of safety in knowing that at least there aren’t sexual predators hosting/working at them.

Correct. I looked them up when researching and while I personally agree with their approach, I knew the backlash would be far greater going that route. I am just trying to do something rather than sitting back and doing nothing. Why wait for an incident? If this approach isn’t the answer what is? I am open to any suggestions and the goal is just try to do what we can.

 

[helen ann]

We should be ca

I think this “reef safe” thread is misleading in its premise.
I don’t think it is intentionally misleading.
When one proposes rules to keep children safe, they are also making the implication that the current situation isn’t safe or safe enough.

I would like to here examples of how this event wasn’t safe.
If examples are unable to be provided I have a hard time seeing this thread as anything but misleading, and contributing to the culture of fear mongering, so pervasive in our society.

So, we just wait for something to happen? That is a serious question not being a brat about it but shouldn’t we try and be proactive?

 

[TheHarold]

So, we just wait for something to happen? That is a serious question not being a brat about it but shouldn’t we try and be proactive?

More or less.

When someone gets convicted of stealing, do you ban them from ever entering a store?

When one is convicted of assault, do you ban them from ever leaving their house?

No. That is not how society works. The court system decides on consequences and rehabilitation. You can work to create preventative measures, such as security, but you cannot single out someone due to their history.

We are talking about selling coral at an event. Not being a gym teacher. There is zero relation.

 

[mrpizzaface]

So, we just wait for something to happen? That is a serious question not being a brat about it but shouldn’t we try and be proactive?

The implication that we are waiting for something to happen, makes the assumption that something is going to happen. I haven’t heard of any indications that something is going to happen. We live in a very safe society. The welfare of children is taken very seriously. There are countless rules and regulations in place. The addition of more rules will never account for the anomaly.
The illusion of control is a powerful elixir, an elixir I refuse to partake in.

 

[TheHarold]

The implication that we are waiting for something to happen, makes the assumption that something is going to happen. I haven’t heard of any indications that something is going to happen. We live in a very safe society. The welfare of children is taken very seriously. There are countless rules and regulations in place. The addition of more rules will never account for the anomaly.
The illusion of control is a powerful elixir, an elixir I refuse to partake in.

I agree with you so much, about the illusion of control. There is a significant fallacy in the argument “we could prevent 1 incident from occurring”. That is why the legal and prison system exists, as opposed to just hanging everyone like the old days.

 

[helen ann]

I am not trying to prevent him or anyone else from being there.

Clearly, I was incorrect in my assumption that we should do something. The original intention was to bring this to reefing community and it was and I respect everyone’s stance.

 

[jayala12]

i am a father of 3 and nothing is out of the question when it comes to my children’s safety. Arm bands are a good idea just like Chuck E. Cheese. If u don’t have one and are with children trying to leave we get an officer to check out the situation. Just to make sure all is well. I really hope a parent wouldn’t refuse extra safety when it comes to wearing them. Heck people proudly wear them at theme parks and carnivals to get on the rides. Also a designated area for lost children isn’t a bad idea. It only takes a second for things to go sideways. Not a flawless plan but a plan to build on and get the discussions going. Things can’t change without getting them out in the open.