Reef2Reef Pest algae challenge thread hydrogen peroxide

brandon429 · Dec 11, 2015

yes id say the quality of those laser clear jpegs is post gold, gracias!

mcarroll keeps finding great formal links!
http://www.apms.org/japm/vol22/v22p25.pdf

Peroxide on algae

VJV · Dec 11, 2015

A couple of notes:

- i did one structure per week, starting with the one on the left side. So this was treated 3 weeks ago.

- ahead of each treatment I syphoned out as much as I could.

- I used 3% peroxide non diluted. Took the structure out, Used a pipette and a small spray bottle to apply the peroxide, waited 10min, scrubbed out as much as I could with a brush, than dumped 10L of tank water over the piece and put it back again.

- my tank is currently fallow, so no nutrients are being added at this time. This possibly explains the small amount of grow back.

To my mind these results are amazing. I have been battling GHA for almost 2y now, using the traditional methods of nutrient control, with zero phosphates and nitrates (measured with highly accurate Hanna checkers that measure in parts per billion) and the algae still thrived. Used carbon dosing as well as GFO, oversized skimmer, everything. This is the first time in a long while I can see my rocks again.

Algae feed on dissolved organics before they have the chance to break down into Nitrates and phosphates, and when you have this much in the tank, the amount of junk they trap is enough for them to self perpetuate even with no phosphates or nitrates measurable. At least, this is my understanding (not a cientist).

I still have some small pockets. Still have not decided if I will hit it again with peroxide or give another try to Fauna Marin Ultra Dino X. Probably will try the latter first just because I'm lazy [emoji4].

VJV · Dec 11, 2015

The other reason is because I want to kill every last spore I can so that it takes longer to regrow. Furthermore I have some growing on the back glass and that I can not treat with peroxide (unless I completely empty the tank which I am not going to).

VJV · Dec 11, 2015

These guys we're posing for a shot

VJV · Dec 11, 2015

brandon429 said:
yes id say the quality of those laser clear jpegs is post gold, gracias!

[emoji4] actually, these are 18MB DSLR shots taken with a macro lens but unfortunately Tapatalk compresses them down to 1,5MB, so less than 10% of original resolution [emoji34]

brandon429 · Dec 11, 2015

that is outstanding. do you know how much id love to fly one of those around on my drone taking snapshots of hogs from the air, this is what some texas people find fun on a weekend. I bet that awesome crab starts becoming a fine grazer now that some steam cooking has taken place, the algae becomes so tasty at that point apparently ~

VJV · Dec 11, 2015

Drone hogging,... Nice[emoji1]

As for the fried algae, it is indeed very curious but after it was fried with peroxide the crabs and snails all love it... Go figure! The little buggers are gourmet [emoji1][emoji1][emoji1]

brandon429 · Dec 11, 2015

that response was pointed out by nano reef posters early on in that big thread, tangs went crazy, picking at the whitened areas constantly and this was -highly- repeatable phenomena among tanks, neat for sure.

**
http://www.lionfishlair.com/hitchhiker.shtml

came across a handy little ID page, algae types are building over time and the id for the motile hitchhikers and the corals really looks to be helpful

Coralz · Dec 11, 2015

Just thought I'd post. The rock that I cleaned with peroxide has been completely cleared of algae. It has also not return. Peroxide works! I'll post a picture of it tomorrow once I head downstairs.

brandon429 · Dec 16, 2015

ReefJar is not playing around here, 35%. This is the guy that if raced on a dark street at 2am he'd have nox and top fuel engine.

http://www.nano-reef.com/topic/367089-2-gallon-cookie-jar-pico-reef-by-reefjar/

3% has outcome variance and much safety. 35% does not, its used when someone isn't playing around. its equally unharmful to filtration bacteria, but it can blind you if you arent using proper lab technique, interesting point being 10x + stronger than 3% which already has 99% of people convinced it can recycle a tank.

Clearly this power fluid is for external tank work, or drains and treats + water change is what I do, not full tank dosing. Neomeris annulata was shown to be resistant even to 35%, count it as the sole outlier.

***very helpful thread with postings from Randy in here*****
ideally one should set up a tank to not need peroxide or any other cheat, if that's a goal (and we are here if you miss it) the very first step is making prep water, and topoff water, that doesn't begin the chain of nutrient input into your tank (TDS discussion)
http://reef2reef.com/threads/what-is-tds-really-is-0-tds-water-necessary.226110/#post-2618530

RMS18 · Dec 21, 2015

I had to take the plunge and preform the peroxide treatment as i was losing the battle. I was using Tech M for 1 month, my levels were around 2000. The Tech M slowed the growth but did not kill it off at all for me. I had the bryopsis growing out of rocks, zoas, acans, lps, spofites and the sand. Took me 4 hours, i pulled each rock out that was affected and brushed the area off as best as i could, then treated that area and surrounding area with 100% peroxide and let it sit for 5-10 min then placed it back into the tank. I placed acans, zoas, shrooms, scolly, open brain, and a favia, into a bath of 100% peroxide for about 5 min once i brushed the area affected, then rinsed off and placed back into the tank. I knew this was a risk but made sure to not fully submerge the corals only the bottom where the bryopsis was growing from. This morning everything looks good (as good as it would after being ticked off). I then cleaned the sand and removed many clumps of this crap, my concern is how it was growing in the sand and if it will come back or if it will ever stop (dam fiji pink sand). I did remove a little to much at once as i affected the biological filter in the system, after i feed the fish i had a .25 reading on a api test kit. Last time i had a reading on that kit was during the tank cycle. This morning i tested it again and it was reading 0, so after feedings it rises a bit. I am making sure my feedings are light and nothing goes to waste. Being someone who was having a problem having any reading of po4 in their tank, now i can not get it down, it is always between .02-.04. my target is .010-.015 i am running carbon and BRS HC GFO. My equipment did need a good cleaning which it all got yesterday, my skimmer was gross. I changed out 20% of the water yesterday as well. I plan to do 2 more 10% changes this week. Last night after the cleaning i was still reading .03 po4, hoping this will drop soon. I am not sure what i will do if this crap grows back, i have this feeling it will but i hope i get a couple of months before it does. It was growing about .25 inches a day once i pulled the Tech M out. I do not have pictures as i was to focused on what i was doing, sorry!

brandon429 · Dec 21, 2015

hey can you snap a cell pic of the after effects, full prediction all those corals survive just fine none are on the sensitives list. in the rare event some did stress or die, system preservation takes simply priority but our safety rate is stellar if not dealing with lysmata, hermodice etc

totally appreciate any feedback on the system even without pics, the point of this technique is simply arresting an overgrowth and not killing things, if possible. nice prep, you at least prioritized keeping it off the fleshy parts as possible, well done I bet it looks great. these seated-in invaders, wiry types and bryopsis, tend to get down into the rocks its not a scare if little whiskers come back, the tank should be re aquascaped anticipating this for easy access, after a few rounds then it can be beaten. overall I think you'll like the outcome of even the first run.

RMS18 · Dec 21, 2015

brandon429 said:
hey can you snap a cell pic of the after effects, full prediction all those corals survive just fine none are on the sensitives list. totally appreciate any feedback on the system even without pics, the point of this technique is simply arresting an overgrowth and not killing things, if possible. nice prep, you at least prioritized keeping it off the fleshy parts as possible, well done I bet it looks great. these seated-in invaders, wiry types and bryopsis, tend to get down into the rocks its not a scare if little whiskers come back, the tank should be re aquascaped anticipating this for easy access, after a few rounds then it can be beaten. overall I think you'll like the outcome of even the first run.

Yup ill take some pictures tonight when i get home. The patches i had were about 2-2.5 inches long and about 1-3 inches round in diameter and thick bunches. It became very bad once the Tech M came out like i stated, prior to that i could have lived with the amount there was but mag levels were at 2000 ppm.

brandon429 · Dec 21, 2015

agreed fully. The entire legitimate algae attack industry is strictly through the water, attacking snails and shrimps too, we are opposite. This is why I like to write that if someone still wants to use tech m as the direct additive paste, outside tank, they'll get worlds better response from targets and non targets alike. in numerous threads we've read of tech m snail loss and benthic growth loss at 1800 much less 2. You were on the verge of loss of nontargets and preservation of target, nice reversal to gain ground.

I like to attack the water when a water borne invader is present, and only then. Water attacking for waste control after total forced removal is an ideal preventative, and water attacking as a remover as we see does not work all the time, and in fact contributes to total take eutrophication in many cases. it is perfectly ok to do water only work, but if it fails, know when to attack direct! lol

RMS18 · Dec 21, 2015

brandon429 said:
agreed fully. The entire legitimate algae attack industry is strictly through the water, attacking snails and shrimps too, we are opposite. This is why I like to write that if someone still wants to use tech m as the direct additive paste, outside tank, they'll get worlds better response from targets and non targets alike. in numerous threads we've read of tech m snail loss and benthic growth loss at 1800 much less 2. You were on the verge of loss of nontargets and preservation of target, nice reversal to gain ground.

I like to attack the water when a water borne invader is present, and only then. Water attacking for waste control after total forced removal is an ideal preventative, and water attacking as a remover as we see does not work all the time, and in fact contributes to total take eutrophication in many cases.

Yes i was lucky to only lose 2 turbo snails. Shrimps, crabs, and many other snails lived. I was also lucky, by attacking outside the tank i was able to rid the favia of some nasty critters that were living in it. I killed 5 red looking bristle worms, the ones people take pictures of that can grow to 4-6 inches. I have never seen them in the tank anywhere, even at night. But they were living in the underside of the favia in holes in the rock. I know they are not harmful to an extent but i do not want them in my tank they gross me out. Moving forward i am going to dip any new coral in peroxide as it was dipped in coral rx but it didn't kill them. They came crawling out very fast and died a quick and painful death as it looked. Luckily everything else that was dipped had no critters on them.

brandon429 · Dec 21, 2015

those worms aren't corallivores by design like some fishes are, but 100% sure ive seen them eating the guts out of my hammer coral before as the filaments were full of fresh cyclopeeze after a feeding and this brought the scavenging worms out, which was literally eating the food-stuck guts so I killed them too.

Clean up crews are diverse in the reef tank and choosing less impactful ones over these hermodice worms is fully ok. if someone else has hermodice and they don't eat corals that's ok too, but a reef tank free of fireworms still functions just fine and we still need to be removing detritus on our own anyway. this is all very helpful details and feedback! I used to use boxer crabs, lyssmata in my tanks those guys pummel the fireworms lol within 5 mins of tank addition he'd pulled out 3.

RMS18 · Dec 21, 2015

brandon429 said:
those worms aren't corallivores by design like some fishes are, but 100% sure ive seen them eating the guts out of my hammer coral before as the filaments were full of fresh cyclopeeze after a feeding and this brought the scavenging worms out, which was literally eating the food-stuck guts so I killed them too.

Clean up crews are diverse in the reef tank and choosing less impactful ones over these hermodice worms is fully ok. if someone else has hermodice and they don't eat corals that's ok too, but a reef tank free of fireworms still functions just fine and we still need to be removing detritus on our own anyway. this is all very helpful details and feedback! I used to use boxer crabs, lyssmata in my tanks those guys pummel the fireworms lol within 5 mins of tank addition he'd pulled out 3.

One last note that just came to mind, if i have to do this again where i have to handle multiple ticked off corals, gloves will be used. By the end of the 4 hours my hands and fingers were feeling a bit weird. I had some slight red-ish areas and a very slight numb feeling in some areas. I am not allergic to anything so i know my tolerance is higher than most but after a while i think it was starting to affect me. The slime the corals give off after being touched and peroxide on my hands for so many hours, plus the amount of bites i had to endure from my female clown, every time my hand goes into the tank she has to give me a couple of bites to let me know she loves me :) The best is when she bites, holds on and shakes her head like a dog does. O the patience required for this hobby.

brandon429 · Dec 21, 2015

I had -no- idea clowns could nip their owners ha~! I figured a giant hand would make them hustle away to the safety of an anem in cowering fear.

twilliard · Dec 21, 2015

Remember peroxide is an oxidizer even on your skin :-)

RMS18 · Dec 21, 2015

Had my gf send me pics so the corals pictured were dipped in peroxide this time yesterday. In some pictures you can see some bryopsis that I missed with the brush and you can see its white.