Relocated tank

OP
Dan McNertney

Dan McNertney

Valuable Member
View Badges
Joined
Apr 21, 2016
Messages
1,755
Reaction score
2,254
Location
Akron Ohio
Are you running the lights on a regular schedule, have you tried a blackout? Have you tried any water clarification products or bacteria in a bottle. Can you borrow someones UV.
Uggggg.
Yea. The algae seems to subside when lights are out so I can try that. Haven’t tried and products. I asked a couple friends but no one runs one. I would love to borrow one for a couple weeks.

I would buy a cheap canister filter and start filtering like mad. Changing filter media daily and possibly a dose or two of coral snow.
I have an old reactor from Spectrapure. It’s a two canister. I think I should try and run carbon in one and gfo in the other.
 
Corals.com

islander84

Island Member
View Badges
Joined
Feb 17, 2011
Messages
1,024
Reaction score
87
Location
Clarksville TN
I had this issue a while back.... heterotrophic bacteria bloom. I tried literally everything and the only thing that worked was running a UV 18W. My tank is 150 Display and 40 Sump. It cleared up within a few days but I had to leave it on to keep it gone. I still run it to this day just to keep bad things out of the water column...
 

Mical

Valuable Member
View Badges
Joined
Aug 7, 2017
Messages
2,559
Reaction score
4,032
Location
Montrose, Minnesota
Please stop, this thread is ripping at my guts...

First off give us your current params - SG, Temp, alk,Cal Mag, Phos & Nitrate. (not doubting your abilities but something is awry going on this long)

I moved two tanks last year and expected a nightmare (as what you're going through) and my only loss was a tuxedo urchin. I move 15 fish, 11 nems, umpteen corals and all during a house move.

I'm suspecting something you moved in the process didn't survive and is the cause of your cloudy (toxic maybe) tank. Let's start with your current params.
 

tripdad

Valuable Member
View Badges
Joined
Feb 9, 2014
Messages
1,459
Reaction score
3,066
Location
Chicago suburbs
I have an old reactor from Spectrapure. It’s a two canister. I think I should try and run carbon in one and gfo in the other. [/QUOTE said:
I would skip the gfo and run carbon and filter media, like floss, changing it daily may be neccessary on the floss. I don't think the gfo would be of any benefit now. UV could help but I get that they are expensive and you have more important concerns, a new little one, right now. If I was closer I'd loan you my UV
 

Tahoe61

Valuable Member
View Badges
Joined
Mar 2, 2012
Messages
12,795
Reaction score
14,825
Location
AZ
That dKH can not be right.
 

Mical

Valuable Member
View Badges
Joined
Aug 7, 2017
Messages
2,559
Reaction score
4,032
Location
Montrose, Minnesota
Couple things I see (personally low) I'ld try to bring Alk up slowly closer to 8 (which should raise Ph) and I'ld bring temp up closer to 78-79.
 
Corals.com
OP
Dan McNertney

Dan McNertney

Valuable Member
View Badges
Joined
Apr 21, 2016
Messages
1,755
Reaction score
2,254
Location
Akron Ohio
Couple things I see (personally low) I'ld try to bring Alk up slowly closer to 8 (which should raise Ph) and I'ld bring temp up closer to 78-79.
I thought the same and I will do so. I need to investigate Phosphate and Magnesium, unfortunately, I don't have a test kit for them. What are your thoughts on high nitrate? I was doing water changes every other day, but couldn't make a dent in the number.
 

Mical

Valuable Member
View Badges
Joined
Aug 7, 2017
Messages
2,559
Reaction score
4,032
Location
Montrose, Minnesota
Re: Nitrate - I try to not overfeed - my first indication of that is an algae bloom on the glass & sand. Phosphates (at least in my case) I found came when my RODI membranes & prefilters were nearing replacement or I was overfeeding. In your case I believe it was from disturbing sand and sump when you moved it. (My nitrates soared for the first couple of weeks when I moved my two tanks.) I rarely test for either these days unless I see more algae than I normally see. Nitrates are a funny thing and when they make a swing towards the "bad" (in my experience) I've always do a water change and cut back feedings. I'm not a big fan of throwing NoPox or chemical remedies at it. I have done the GFO route and again it's a very fine line of enough vs too much & sadly it takes days before you see the results - it's like shooting in the dark. One thing this hobby has taught me - slow & minor changes then WAIT, and not react to quickly.

Re: Magnesium - after reading some of Randy Holmes stuff, I bought a mag tester but only test like once a month. Mag moves slowly but it's a "binder" that helps manage & balance Alk & Cal. I try to keep my mag around 1300
 
OP
Dan McNertney

Dan McNertney

Valuable Member
View Badges
Joined
Apr 21, 2016
Messages
1,755
Reaction score
2,254
Location
Akron Ohio
Here's my best attempt at addressing some of the responses...

i would skip the gfo and run carbon and filter media, like floss, changing it daily may be neccessary on the floss. I don't think the gfo would be of any benefit now. UV could help but I get that they are expensive and you have more important concerns, a new little one, right now. If I was closer I'd loan you my UV
I decided to hook up the media reactor to run carbon an gfo more efficiently. I am looking into filter floss currently. I have been asking around the area to see if I can get my hands on a UV, will keep you updated.

Re: Nitrate - I try to not overfeed - my first indication of that is an algae bloom on the glass & sand. Phosphates (at least in my case) I found came when my RODI membranes & prefilters were nearing replacement or I was overfeeding. In your case I believe it was from disturbing sand and sump when you moved it. (My nitrates soared for the first couple of weeks when I moved my two tanks.) I rarely test for either these days unless I see more algae than I normally see. Nitrates are a funny thing and when they make a swing towards the "bad" (in my experience) I've always do a water change and cut back feedings. I'm not a big fan of throwing NoPox or chemical remedies at it. I have done the GFO route and again it's a very fine line of enough vs too much & sadly it takes days before you see the results - it's like shooting in the dark. One thing this hobby has taught me - slow & minor changes then WAIT, and not react to quickly.

Re: Magnesium - after reading some of Randy Holmes stuff, I bought a mag tester but only test like once a month. Mag moves slowly but it's a "binder" that helps manage & balance Alk & Cal. I try to keep my mag around 1300
You and I seem to be a lot a like. I will focus on not overfeeding to keep nitrates and phosphates down. I just replaced my RODI from spectrapure previous to the move, so I think I am good there. I am slated to do a water change this Wednesday. I will see what results I can get from that. After a week of letting it run, I think a WC will help a lot.

Dan its time to rip clean and save the tank, other methods had a chance, they produced no example threads we linked page one. Its harming animals to leave them in this water, but you can easily just skip cycle clean the system and make it instantly behave, with the current bacteria in place. no extra purchases or dosers required, these bacteria self manage when you forcefully reset their numbers.

There are no other work threads linked that show outcomes in this thread for a reason, intervention last month was the only acceptable action. lets fix it real quick, make up a full water change and clean the rocks correctly, and the tank, and your whole reef will look like Jon's example linked for you.
Is it accurate to say this tank is being killed on purpose

a slow, extended death over months where remaining life has no chance?


don’t get too mad at me. Harsh truths are not mean, redirect me if I’m way off base. ***The tank is too large to be cared for correctly**



It seems to do nothing as it descends when a 100% fix has been shown on first post leaves solely the choice to save it or kill it. If I’m missing a mid ground let me know, but I’m 100% sure that simple choice kills or saves reef animals it doesn’t seem to be a matter of chemistry whatsoever. we will continue tracking willingness to simply save the system or hands off kill it dead from our sand rinse thread, proceed as you will.


You can save your tank right now, last month, do that action above. Even though it’s not my cash or tank dying, I’m mad you’d just kill it on purpose. Your thread here will be used to save a thousand tanks though by direct example of simple willingness. Don’t think I’m flaming or being mean, we are simply watching you dig your heels in regarding inaction until it is dead and to try and save a reef by pointing that out isn’t bad it’s tough aquarium love.
There is a lot to absorb and try to understand from what you are trying to tell me. I am not on board with doing a rip clean on my tank, yet. I sill feel very confident that I can make this turn around and get it back to where it should be. I am NOT KILLING of my tank, so please don't say that. It hurt a lot when I read that. I will figure this out, and when I do, I will be able to share my experience with the others here on R2R. Thank you.
 
OP
Dan McNertney

Dan McNertney

Valuable Member
View Badges
Joined
Apr 21, 2016
Messages
1,755
Reaction score
2,254
Location
Akron Ohio
Remaining coral and fish seem to be doing very well. The fish are eating well. The coral seem to be coming back alive, and if it weren't for the poor water clarity, they would look great. I am scheduled to do a 30 gallon water change on Wednesday. I will clean as much as I can previous to that water change. I also order filter floss and will apply it to my baffles in my sump, hopefully I can catch some of this green and red slime. I think it will help tremendously.
 
Last edited:
https://www.omegasea.net/

islander84

Island Member
View Badges
Joined
Feb 17, 2011
Messages
1,024
Reaction score
87
Location
Clarksville TN
Dan its time to rip clean and save the tank, other methods had a chance, they produced no example threads we linked page one. Its harming animals to leave them in this water, but you can easily just skip cycle clean the system and make it instantly behave, with the current bacteria in place. no extra purchases or dosers required, these bacteria self manage when you forcefully reset their numbers.

There are no other work threads linked that show outcomes in this thread for a reason, intervention last month was the only acceptable action. lets fix it real quick, make up a full water change and clean the rocks correctly, and the tank, and your whole reef will look like Jon's example linked for you.
I had this same exact cloudiness in my tank and running UV fixed the problem..... i cleaned the tank and did massive water changes, the stuff came back within a few days. Do a large water change, run carbon and UV
 

tripdad

Valuable Member
View Badges
Joined
Feb 9, 2014
Messages
1,459
Reaction score
3,066
Location
Chicago suburbs
I also am positive that the state of microbiological science in reefing is partly to blame for thousands of tank losses. I killed my first pico reef being hands off...my tank would be twenty now were it not for reef advisors who never told me in 2000 that you can simply kill algae outside the tank and not have to jack with water until corals starve and die. Everybody told me that big changes harm bacteria, cause mini cycles, so they froze us out of action with mis truths.

The hands on method is born solely of the refusal to lose another reef tank, ever.


These retailers, speakers, sages, are constantly telling us made up limitations for filter bacteria (guess what they sell)


you kept old water, and didn’t rinse rocks understandably because our hobby is built on a $ false science that bac are harmed by flushing events (which are free other than cost of new water)


the truth is, filter bacteria boon in the harsh times, the upwelling storm events. The hands off time period is counterproductive to filtration because by necessity, hands off means accumulation. Reef rocks by rule pump out detritus from living organisms by the minute, put some in a white bucket of saltwater and wait two hours-proof. Algae coating the rocks stops expression, eutrophication begins specifically in the rock * which is your only surface area* in a tank with no sand. You must restore its efficiency by force, by storm.

Accumulation by rule reduces surface area in a reef tank, we thrive on clear surface area that exposes water waste to hungry bacteria. Accumulation reduces surface area for good bac, provides substrate for bacteria and pathogens that specifically put tanks in a eutrophic state which this tank is in. With a sandbed it would already be dead, having no sandbed is why it won’t be that hard to save.


consider the process zoos and professional large aquariums use to maintain their filters. search out on professional zoo exhibit articles the sixty year science called “backflushing” for massive aquarium filters.


Why do zoos and million dollar public aquariums backflush? What happens if they stop? What is the compounding material requiring a backflush?

what Jon did is a backflush. His tank is the filter, so we back flushed it.

even though UV can zap your water clear, or carbon filtration, that doesn’t remove compounds associated with bacterial rot nor do those methods backflush, so they won’t really work they’ll be treating only a symptom.

that above is the ecological analysis for your system along with the fix. It is not too late. if you are willing to clean this aquarium it can be saved.
.
I believe you have stated your opinion clearly. I believe the OP is capable of making informed decisions including , if he so chooses a " rip clean" . I don't see the need to constantly restate your opinion. On another note to Dan, hang in there.
 

islander84

Island Member
View Badges
Joined
Feb 17, 2011
Messages
1,024
Reaction score
87
Location
Clarksville TN
My hetertrophic bacterial bloom was not from the same cause as the OP. Mine was caused from something I introduced through dosing fish emulsion. But the steps I tried to correct the issue are as follows... All of these methods were done separately so that I could find the true correction, with exception of the filter socks as I ran them the entire time.... Bacteria doses were based on bottle recommended quantities. My setup is 150 Gal DT / 40 Gal Sump

-Filter socks
-Multiple water changes
-Running carbon
-Dosing Microbacter7
-Dosing Fritz Turbo
-Dosing Biospira

After several weeks of trial/error and the bloom reappearing( the only time it would subside slightly was from water changes) I finally bought a UV and within a few days the heterotrophic bacteria cloud started disappearing....
 

Tahoe61

Valuable Member
View Badges
Joined
Mar 2, 2012
Messages
12,795
Reaction score
14,825
Location
AZ
Brandon it's not Dan's first rodeo. I think it's time to redirect your focus.

Dan I am certain this will turn around in the near future.
 
Last edited:
Top Shelf Aquatics

The worst paradigm to hit the hobby is getting your nutrient levels as low as possible?

  • Yes

    Votes: 250 53.9%
  • No

    Votes: 87 18.8%
  • Other (please explain)

    Votes: 15 3.2%
  • Not Sure

    Votes: 112 24.1%

Online statistics

Members online
2,115
Guests online
4,653
Total visitors
6,768
Top