Remote Live Rock - Continuous Cooking

[ChuzUThisDay]

I briefly mentioned this idea in response to another thread, but wanted to get opinions on the idea of plumbing in a remote container with live rock. The idea is based upon two ideas... 1) a remote deep sand bed for lowering nitrates and phosphates and 2) cooking live rock to remove nitrates and phosphates.

I figure if live rock can generate bacteria and stay in a "ready" state for years by simply being in a brute trash can with a heater, water circulation, and no light, what would happen if that was plumbed into a tank's filtration system?

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

Many folks do it yes. It works well.

 

[ChuzUThisDay]

Many folks do it yes. It works well.

Any idea about flow rate through the remote container? A slow turnover rate from a separate pump, returning back to the sump is my guess. However, a higher flow pump would allow more of the water to be exchanged.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

Ya know , I honestly don’t know the answer to that.
I’d assume it would run at the same rather as the return in the system

Let’s bump this and ask if anyone has more tech specs.
#reefsquad.

 

[Brew12]

It is a very interesting idea! I think it depends on setup and goals. If your goal is anaerobic zones for denitrification then you want slower non turbulent flow. I would start at around 1x water volume per hour at the most.

 

[ihavecrabs]

I briefly mentioned this idea in response to another thread, but wanted to get opinions on the idea of plumbing in a remote container with live rock. The idea is based upon two ideas... 1) a remote deep sand bed for lowering nitrates and phosphates and 2) cooking live rock to remove nitrates and phosphates.

I figure if live rock can generate bacteria and stay in a "ready" state for years by simply being in a brute trash can with a heater, water circulation, and no light, what would happen if that was plumbed into a tank's filtration system?

Adding a container of live rock to your existing system would help with filtration and would increase your filtration capacity; however, if your rock has a lot of bound phosphates and nitrates, adding it to your system would leach that into the system if the water has a lower phosphate/nitrate. Essentually, you would NOT want to "cook rock" or "cycle rock" attached to an established tank.

So essentially you would add a container full of live or cycled dry rock and plumb it into an existing tank. This would increase the total surface area for bacteria to colonize.

As far as turnover. I would shoot for a turnover rate that maintains temperature in the remote system. I would think 2-3x turnover an hour would be sufficient, depending on the location (i.e. not in a basement or garage as I would think you'd have to increase turnover or insulation of the container).

Hope this helps!

 

[dantimdad]

Years ago, when I had a big fish room, I plumbed in a kiddie pool with two shop lights over it with just NO actinic bulbs on it. I put in two MJ1200s and a 300 watt heater. It grew coralline like crazy on texas holey rock. This, I think was key to the long term success of my fish room.

I sent about 300gph to the pool from the sump. I had it up on cinder blocks so it would gravity feed back to the sump.

Once every six months, I would shut it off, take the rock out and rinse out the gunk and put the rock back in. As I sold rock, I just put in fresh dry rock that had been bleached and rinsed.

If I had the room, I would do it again in a heart beat.

EDIT: I also had two 6" diameter 6 foot tall air stone driven skimmers that were run off an air compressor in the shop I just ran a line in and put a pressure regulator on it. I was told this wouldn't work because it wasn't consistent enough but, I never had an issue with it. Just had to make a bunch of basswood stones.

 

[ChuzUThisDay]

Adding a container of live rock to your existing system would help with filtration and would increase your filtration capacity; however, if your rock has a lot of bound phosphates and nitrates, adding it to your system would leach that into the system if the water has a lower phosphate/nitrate. Essentually, you would NOT want to "cook rock" or "cycle rock" attached to an established tank.

So essentially you would add a container full of live or cycled dry rock and plumb it into an existing tank. This would increase the total surface area for bacteria to colonize.

As far as turnover. I would shoot for a turnover rate that maintains temperature in the remote system. I would think 2-3x turnover an hour would be sufficient, depending on the location (i.e. not in a basement or garage as I would think you'd have to increase turnover or insulation of the container).

Hope this helps!

What I have in mind is new dry rock that has already been "cleaned and cooking" and is already live with bacteria. I have a heater in one container already, so I'm guessing that leaving it in place would be fine. Using the slow turnover is what I'd guessed, so I appreciate the feedback!

 

[ChuzUThisDay]

It is a very interesting idea! I think it depends on setup and goals. If your goal is anaerobic zones for denitrification then you want slower non turbulent flow. I would start at around 1x water volume per hour at the most.

Keeping nitrates low is the goal, so I appreciate the feedback!

 

[ChuzUThisDay]

Years ago, when I had a big fish room, I plumbed in a kiddie pool with two shop lights over it with just NO actinic bulbs on it. I put in two MJ1200s and a 300 watt heater. It grew coralline like crazy on texas holey rock. This, I think was key to the long term success of my fish room.

I sent about 300gph to the pool from the sump. I had it up on cinder blocks so it would gravity feed back to the sump.

Once every six months, I would shut it off, take the rock out and rinse out the gunk and put the rock back in. As I sold rock, I just put in fresh dry rock that had been bleached and rinsed.

If I had the room, I would do it again in a heart beat.

EDIT: I also had two 6" diameter 6 foot tall air stone driven skimmers that were run off an air compressor in the shop I just ran a line in and put a pressure regulator on it. I was told this wouldn't work because it wasn't consistent enough but, I never had an issue with it. Just had to make a bunch of basswood stones.

It's awesome to hear of your success with this concept. Thank you! I'm hoping to give it a try in the near future.

 

[ihavecrabs]

What I have in mind is new dry rock that has already been "cleaned and cooking" and is already live with bacteria. I have a heater in one container already, so I'm guessing that leaving it in place would be fine. Using the slow turnover is what I'd guessed, so I appreciate the feedback!

I made the mistake of curing live rock in a garage in an Illinois winter.. That got expensive to heat so hopefully yours is somewhere less impacted by the weather lol.

 

[ChuzUThisDay]

I made the mistake of curing live rock in a garage in an Illinois winter.. That got expensive to heat so hopefully yours is somewhere less impacted by the weather lol.

East Tennessee isn't too bad come winter time. That's a good tidbit of info though!

 

[ectoaesthetics]

If you are going to be keeping it in a trash can anyway you might was well just call it a cryptic zone and run slower flow.... If you do run 1-2x flow (which I personally would) I might consider dropping a secondary heater into the container -especially if the can is in the basement or garage (which mine would be).

I would hands down go with the rock over a DSB. At least you can slowly remove rock if you decide to shut it down. Getting rid of a DSB (if something were to go wrong) would be a nightmare.

Reading the posts above using low lighting to essentially create a super large lighted refugium or rock grow out tank would be cool (3-5x turnover) OR creating a cryptic zone (1-2x turnover) would be super helpful as well.

 

[dantimdad]

The heater is a must on slower flow. You will never get the temp to match the system. I tried and after the first month put the heater in.

The pool held about 80 gallons of water after putting in about 250 pounds of dry rock. IIRC. It could have been a bit different than that.

Back then, you could get a pallet of 1000lbs delivered for $1000. It was a steal because you could sell "Cultured" live rock for $4 a pound.

 

[reefwiser]

You will do better using a 50 gallon Rubbermaid stock bin.
https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/p...ghwLL5QpgWJ3sTKzYv1WhgHDnMRgkYLhoCA_8QAvD_BwE
I have used them as cryptic refugium on my large system in the past. Seed with sponges and copepods and you will get a very healthy reef. Bacteria growth is limited to having enough food source.
The rock in the tank will consume all of that.