return flow-rate plumbing question for my new tank

[Projects with Sam]

Hi,
I am trying to plan out my plumbing for my Oceanic 120 and I am tossing around some ideas about what to do.

I have a Danner Mag Drive 9.5 @ 950 GPH (which came with the setup) and a Jerepet SND-7000 return pump ~1850GPH DC pump (probably too much flow)

The Danner has what is probably the correct amount of flow for the system.
I got the Jerepet while I was still in my freshwater mentality (maximize flow through the filter) and there was an insane black Friday deal on it.

My tank has two weirs with a 1" and a 3/4" bulkhead in each. (currently a Durso in one and a Stockman in the other)
Would it be insane to put the Jerepet (18500GPH) behind one of the weirs, plug the 3/4" bulkhead in that weir and make that weir strictly flow and the emergency drain?
The Danner would still be the return pump attached to the other 3/4" return line and the to-be-installed Herbie syphon drain.

I could also just go with 10x-12x flow through my sump or run the DC pump at 50% and get some energy savings.

I'm told my overflows are huge *wink* though and I dont have any decent flow pumps so this solution may be perfect provided I can get everything to fit...

Any thoughts?

 

[X-37B]

Way to much flow through the sump, imo.
My 120 runs a Tunze pump with ball valve and I only run 200gph through my sump.
Im not a fan of more than 3x tank volume through the sump.
I run an over size skimmer, 7" filter sock, media reactor and a carx in my sump.
Over the years I have found that slower flow through the sump is prefered over high flow.

 

[Adrift]

Couldn’t you just put a ball valve in to dial back the flow. It’s old school but worked for me a long time ago.

 

[Projects with Sam]

I was mainly asking people's opinions about putting the big pump in the overflow. has anyone done it?
Also, I was contemplating diverting some of the returned water to the pump section of the sump thereby allowing me to keep the return pump high flow yet keeping the sump dwell time reasonable.

Does anyone else do as described?

 

[Projects with Sam]

Couldn’t you just put a ball valve in to dial back the flow. It’s old school but worked for me a long time ago.

Its a DC pump so I could just lower the power. I am just trying to avoid having to put flow pumps in the tank when I can run a big pump in the stand and just direct water to different places.
Like drain 2/3 of the 1800 GPH to the pump section and 1/3 to the skimmer/fuge.

or, better yet, put the big pump in the tank behind rockwork (or the weir) and just use the small pump for the sump

 

[Projects with Sam]

Way to much flow through the sump, imo.
My 120 runs a Tunze pump with ball valve and I only run 200gph through my sump.
Im not a fan of more than 3x tank volume through the sump.
I run an over size skimmer, 7" filter sock, media reactor and a carx in my sump.
Over the years I have found that slower flow through the sump is prefered over high flow.

thanks, I didn't communicate that I was familiar with that concept well. My point was just that I have a big pump I'd like to use and I need to add flow to my tank. I'm trying to use the big pump for flow because I'm a stay at home dad trying to save on equipment and not tick off my wife buying $400++ pumps for my hobby that may or may not have gotten out of control even before I setup the tank .

I am hoping that with a little creative thinking about water flow management or pump placement I can surmount my problems without throwing money at the problem.

amazing looking setup by the way. so many controllers on the wings!

 

[csnmusic02]

Well the problem is the mag drive head loss what I did with my 180 is both overflows are just drains the 2 - 1 inch and the 2 a3/4 inch are drains and my dc pump returns comes over the top of the tank with a small hole to break syphon in case power outage, I just don’t think the 1 single 3/4 can cover the flow for the Danner

 

[csnmusic02]

Nm I just saw your pic but I don’t think the pump will fit in the overflow box

 

[Projects with Sam]

Nm I just saw your pic but I don’t think the pump will fit in the overflow box

Thanks for commenting! I wanted to be sure so I did a little trial fitting on the tank and took some photos. They're below:

This side, left while looking at the tank, will have the main siphon drain (6" below weir) and the 3/4" return from the Danner. The 3/4" pipe can flow 23gpm at 100psi so I don't think it will struggle returning the Danner's ~950gph.

This next side, right while looking at the tank, will have the emergency standpipe (angled for pump room.) I may also be able to have a secondary emergency standpipe if I use the 3/4" bulkhead for that instead of capping it.
In addition to the standpipes, I think there is room for the pump. see the pictures after this one.

The pump has a 1" Threaded output so thats no problem reducing it to 3/4" for the lock-line weir port. I have a 3D printer and I DIY CNC that I can use to either make a PETG or acrylic mount for the pump (if I'm uncomfortable just hanging it on the weir port.)

Is it just convention stopping me? The pump has an awesome wave maker setting where it blends between random flow levels.

 

[Projects with Sam]

I guess the emergency standpipes could be useless if the maximum flow rate of the weir is under the flow-rate I have the DC pump set at.

 

[csnmusic02]

I mean really you could try it and see how it goes before you set it up cause I think the pump being in there will also make a lot of vibration

 

[Lbrdsoxfan]

I'm kinda lost, are you trying to use the DC pump as a puller from the sump? Or is it a redundancy issue? I'd just run the DC pump in the sump and dial back as needed. Less electricity and less heat.

Nm, I learned to read ALL of the posts, lol. What your doing is a good idea, but the powerheads seem to be easier. Jebao is your friend to keep cost down for those.

 

[Projects with Sam]

I'm kinda lost, are you trying to use the DC pump as a puller from the sump? Or is it a redundancy issue? I'd just run the DC pump in the sump and dial back as needed. Less electricity and less heat.

Nm, I learned to read ALL of the posts, lol. What your doing is a good idea, but the powerheads seem to be easier. Jebao is your friend to keep cost down for those.

After going and getting all the fittings and dry-fitting it all and then seeing csnmusic02's comment and re-watching the BRS video on return pumps and how they're actually pretty open about how one approaches it has also brought me to your same conclusion.
I'll stick with standard plumbing - can run the big pump at 20% power (and noise) and I'll just bide my time till I can get some fancy flow pumps. The super reliable Danner I'll clean and keep ready for if/when this cheap DC pump fails.

 

[csnmusic02]

That how my return pump comes in my tank so I can handle the more volume for drains but also makes it quieter

 

[Projects with Sam]

Ahh. nice. great idea to have multiple heads on it. I would do something similar but I'm looking forward to being able to push this tank up against the wall. My last tank had an external overflow box.
I suppose I could run 2 1" drains and 1 3/4" inch drain (so an odd Bean Animal) then force the return through one 3/4" line (with multiple lock lines like yours).

This is one of the best flow rate tables I could find:

How Much Water Can Flow Through A Pipe (GPM/GPH)?

Three tables to get a general understanding of water flow capacity through a pipe or roof drain. If you have questions, contact our roof Drain Wizard.

hy-techroofdrains.com

I don't think I'd have an issue with anything, even if I turned the pump to 11.

I'm also leaning towards standard everything because this is my first saltwater tank - I should save the shenanigans for my third or fourth tank...

 

[csnmusic02]

Yea I have a Jebao Dsp 10000 on my 180 so mine with head loss is still 10x turn over and straight 1 1/4 inch pipe so no pressure loss minus the 2 90s that feed it over the top

 

[Projects with Sam]

nice. ok. so its not such a big deal to post big flow numbers. I've seen folks say skimming is harder with high flow but I don't understand why it would be. Only reason I can think to keep flow slow is so we don't blow the refugium all over the place.
according to those charts, with the two 1" drains I should be able to run full bore with my pump so guess I'll get todo some experiments.
I suppose I can always redirect some of the overflowed water directly to the pump section of the sump so only a fraction of the water flows to the skimmer and refugium.

Thanks for your comments; nice to know others use high-flow return pumps.

 

[theMeat]

With the two overflow boxes with two pipes in each you have 4 pipes from tank to sump. Would use 3 of them for herbie style drain and the 4th for return at around 5x tank volume. Will also say a mag pump puts out a lot of heat

 

[Projects with Sam]

Will also say a mag pump puts out a lot of heat

Ahh thanks! I've not run it for too long so not too knowlegeable of the 9.5. My experience with Danner comes from a smaller pump (350GPH) I bought ~17 years ago and its still a little workhorse with a ton of head pressure.
Thanks for your comment. I like the idea of 3 standpipes.

 

[theMeat]

Ahh thanks! I've not run it for too long so not too knowlegeable of the 9.5. My experience with Danner comes from a smaller pump (350GPH) I bought ~17 years ago and its still a little workhorse with a ton of head pressure.
Thanks for your comment. I like the idea of 3 standpipes.

Oops, herbie is two pipe drain.
With herbie (2 pipe) drain, or bean animal (3 pipe) drain one of those pipes does most of the drainage with full siphon and runs virtually silent when compared to a stockman or durso. The difference between herbie and bean animal is bean animal has an addition pipe as an emergency back up.
Yeah mag drives are good work horses for the price but definitely put out a lot of heat. A great pump to use for mixing new water when water changing