Reverse Mortgages - tell me what you know

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4FordFamily

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Obviously much of what was said here is pretty common.

I will address misconceptions separately.

1) You lose the home, the bank wants the house, you are not on title.

a. Completely inaccurate. You are on title, the bank does NOT want the home they can no longer sell the home for a dime of profit so they sell it for the lien amount, and the ONLY way to lose the home is to not pay your taxes, insurance, or let the home fall apart.

2) Reverse mortgages are for the destitute

a. 95% of my clientele have a net worth over 2 million. Financial advisors send many clients to me for these reasons. I will walk through the four most common uses for this product, the last being the least common.

i. Put cash tied up in the home to work for the homeowner to invest every dime and maximize the estate value come passing. Yes the loan balance increases but the home appreciates, the line of credit grows by 4% every year, and they are earning far more than the measly interest rate with the investments. Many of my clients buy investment properties and command a ridiculously high ROI (sometimes approaching 20%) notwithstanding the tax shield benefits of writing off expenses and lowering your taxable income. There are two ways to become more wealthy 1) Make more money and 2) Pay less taxes.

ii. Use the line of credit (reverse so no payment required) mentioned above instead to just hedge the market. Seniors often live off of their investment portfolios. When the market is down (like now) when you are taking cash out to live, you are recognizing losses and thus significantly decreasing the value and time that your assets will “live”. In a down market, seniors draw on their reverse LOC instead and wait for the bull market to return to withdraw funds and pay off the line of credit. This has been “monte carlo” (scenario tester) as an effective tool to maximize the $ value and lifetime of your retirement accounts.

iii. Even more conservative are the seniors that get the line of credit just as a safety net. Many do not use them. But with fixed incomes not increasing and cost of living skyrocketing, it provides an option available to them later. The unused balance grows by 4% every year regardless of what the economy does or the value of the home. They often eventually use it for health expenses, unforeseen circumstances, home repairs, etc. As with any reverse mortgage – you can always make a payment and treat it like a normal mortgage should you wish to. This only provides OPTIONS. If you do not use it, nothing is different than your current situation. It is a safety net you did not otherwise have short of selling your home which most seniors do not want to do because they love their home, neighbors, and area.

iv. Finally, others cannot afford their bills and are scared of losing their home. They opt for a reverse mortgage so they can continue to live in the home. You can set up a lifetime set aside for taxes and insurance in which we will pay it on your behalf – and you’re protected from increases in either as we foot the risk.

3) Reverse mortgages are expensive.

a. Honestly the fees are virtually identical to regular FHA fees worst case, and best case fees are nothing or close to. It depends on your unpaid balance, home value, and whether you are dealing with the end servicer or a broker. Brokers make their money on the front end (in fees) because they sell the loan (to us) after you close.

As some general information – this program is an entitlement program. When you were old enough to use social security, you had worked hard and paid in to it your whole life. You worked hard to pay down your home and make good decisions until this point. This is another program available solely to seniors to take advantage of. The worst part about reverse mortgages is that I cannot have one, honestly.
 

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IMO, it's a way out if you planned your retirement in a bad way.
A lot of ppl still live from pay-check to pay-check now days.
Even after a few market crashes, ppl still the attent to spent extra cash vs putting it towards the principal on the biggest investment.
Home equity is often the last resource to turn to in a financial emergency.
In some cases it's best to scale down and have lower payments or nothing at all if you still owe on the house.
It's awesome that there are ppl like you @3FordFamily to help the ones in need.
For the young ones here, one advice that always helped me in every way "if you got one dollar you can't spend two"
Far often I hear hobby related that they are forced to sell their setup in order to make payments on their CC.
A lot of ppl living still upside down, they had a nice home but had to move to that nicer neighborhood or newer sub-division.
As results they add another 15 years to their mortgage.
We paid our home off in less than 15 years and now we investing the extra in other properties.
It's a good feeling waking up knowing that you're not forced to go out to work to make a living.
 
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IMO, it's a way out if you planned your retirement in a bad way.
A lot of ppl still live from pay-check to pay-check now days.
Even after a few market crashes, ppl still the attent to spent extra cash vs putting it towards the principal on the biggest investment.
Home equity is often the last resource to turn to in a financial emergency.
In some cases it's best to scale down and have lower payments or nothing at all if you still owe on the house.
It's awesome that there are ppl like you @3FordFamily to help the ones in need.
For the young ones here, one advice that always helped me in every way "if you got one dollar you can't spend two"
Far often I hear hobby related that they are forced to sell their setup in order to make payments on their CC.
A lot of ppl living still upside down, they had a nice home but had to move to that nicer neighborhood or newer sub-division.
As results they add another 15 years to their mortgage.
We paid our home off in less than 15 years and now we investing the extra in other properties.
It's a good feeling waking up knowing that you're not forced to go out to work to make a living.

Actually the loan isn't for the destitute anymore most of those people cannot get them now. FHA went upside down on these because people didn't pay their taxes and they changed the guidelines and many new products emerged. If you think you own something, try not paying taxes on it! :D

All those stories of people losing their homes were predominantly these people. FHA had enough of it. Truth is these people couldn't afford to stay in their home no matter what.

You should read through the above my friend

I would say my average customer has 4 million liquid, and does not NEED anything. They do it to make their home asset work for them like their other assets. Financial advisors send many to me for these reasons.

As with all government programs, the original intent (to help those in need) gets negated. There's bearly zero reason anyone over 62 should get any mortgage other than a reverse. I can make a business case, crunch numbers, and explain why 9 ways to Sunday.

I absolutely agree with you that the younger generations need to save about 10% or more of their earnings starting at 25-30. By save I mean invest. Aggressively.
 
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Just saw this today, 3FordFamily. I'm an FA for one of the majors. One the one hand I consider a Reverse Mortgage to be an act of last resort, but on the other it's a very good/effective act of last resort. I agree with you that much of the poor perception is based on really outdated or inaccurate assumptions. I definitely have some clients, either on their own or by my recommendation, who decided to go with a reverse mortgage and are very happy they did so. My father has one too, and he was a CFP. In his case, the company stock in his 401(k) was above $100/sh when he retired, but it was around $43 when HR finally freed up his shares for liquidation (this was during the bubble burst in '00-'01), so it is safe to say his retirement did not go according to plan. He decided to go with a reverse mortgage a few years ago because 100% of his income was coming from his IRA and therefore taxable, which was driving him crazy. He wasn't destitute, he just wanted less of his cash flow distributions to be taxable.

We're in CA and there is a $600,000 limit on the amount you can put into a reverse mortgage, and his house is worth about twice that, so it would not be safe to say that the bank will take his home. Having said that, I don't have that much lying around to pay off the bank so the house will still be sold by his heirs (me) rather than staying in the family. We are all OK with that. :)

Hope this helps.
 
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Just saw this today, 3FordFamily. I'm an FA for one of the majors. One the one hand I consider a Reverse Mortgage to be an act of last resort, but on the other it's a very good/effective act of last resort. I agree with you that much of the poor perception is based on really outdated or inaccurate assumptions. I definitely have some clients, either on their own or by my recommendation, who decided to go with a reverse mortgage and are very happy they did so. My father has one too, and he was a CFP. In his case, the company stock in his 401(k) was above $100/sh when he retired, but it was around $43 when HR finally freed up his shares for liquidation (this was during the bubble burst in '00-'01), so it is safe to say his retirement did not go according to plan. He decided to go with a reverse mortgage a few years ago because 100% of his income was coming from his IRA and therefore taxable, which was driving him crazy. He wasn't destitute, he just wanted less of his cash flow distributions to be taxable.

We're in CA and there is a $600,000 limit on the amount you can put into a reverse mortgage, and his house is worth about twice that, so it would not be safe to say that the bank will take his home. Having said that, I don't have that much lying around to pay off the bank so the house will still be sold by his heirs (me) rather than staying in the family. We are all OK with that. :)

Hope this helps.

Glad an FA chimed in! Did you read the uses my customers use this product for? Things are entirely different these days. Most of my clients as I said have several million in assets (liquid) and do it to invest further to maximize the value of their estate come passing.

My company actually has a reverse "jumbo" product available in some states that I do a lot of as well. The ceiling for home values for this is 26 million. The ceiling for non proprietary products is 625,500 currently you are correct.

I help my FA friends make a lot more money, as well as their client ;)

Thanks for chiming in!
 
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ssdawood

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OK simple questions.

What's the catch. Why I ask. There has to be one.

We know the bank is not in it for the greater good. It is in it to make money for its investors.

So what the catch. If this program is so good for consumers why is the bank doing it.
 

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So for the bank to make any money it is counting on the misfortune of people who apply for these.

In your example of wealthy using it to increase assets the bank looses.

In order for the bank to make money the proportion of wealthy people using this to their advantage should be small.
And the proportion of destitute people making wrong decisions should be large.
 
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OK simple questions.

What's the catch. Why I ask. There has to be one.

We know the bank is not in it for the greater good. It is in it to make money for its investors.

So what the catch. If this program is so good for consumers why is the bank doing it.

I hear this every single day.

The true answer is there isn't really a catch depending on your definition. I guess the closest thing to it is that when you die, statistically there will be a balance with accrued interest that the banks make. I'm not a bank we are a service banks don't like reverse mortgages because they have to wait a long time to get paid. Big banks got out of reverse mortgages and that's when a lot of the positive changes came about... Coincidentally...? Lol

The reason it seems too good to be true is because remember this is an entitlement program. When you are old enough to draw SS you earned it and paid in to it and you're old enough to take advantage.

With reverse mortgages you've paid in to the FHA if you've had any government insured mortgages (most) and you paid down your home and worked hard to be able to utilize this tool.

The FHA has lost its you know what with this tool in the past but those who already have them are never at risk. They will honor them. If the program remains as it currently is for much longer remains to be seen. I suspect it will. The FHA makes a ton of money on FHA loans now with ridiculously high mortgage insurance. That program too was initially there to help the poor with lesser credit and less money get in to a home. Now people that have no other choice often use it and will pay mortgage insurance premium monthly perpetually (unless they refinance to a conventional loan) and at a higher rate than ever before. Like any business, the FHA has to make money too. (Yes the FHA is a government enterprise but they won't lose their rears for long.)

So we make money when you die I guess.
 
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So for the bank to make any money it is counting on the misfortune of people who apply for these.

In your example of wealthy using it to increase assets the bank looses.

In order for the bank to make money the proportion of wealthy people using this to their advantage should be small.
And the proportion of destitute people making wrong decisions should be large.

Not necessarily - For every client that uses the line of credit and pays it back as in one of the scenarios above, 5 more people max it out and put as much as possible in investments. When you have a 1-10 million dollar investment "portfolio" it is VERY easy to attract the top talent to manage it. These guys and gals share with me that they earn 8,9,10, even 12% on it. Others buy investment properties which provide even more if done right, notwithstanding the tax shield benefits. (To grow wealth you have to either make more money, or pay less taxes - rentals allow you to do both).

Most of my clients invest their equity. Any earnings above and beyond their interest rate is money in the bank. The bank wins because it has 5-15 years of compounding interest it collects when they die. The wealthy reverse holder is happy because they left a lot more money for their heirs because they left a larger estate value to them when they died (they put their home asset to work for them like the rest of their assets), and their heirs are happy because they have more money and if they want the house they can pay cash for it when they pay us back.

Remember they also have up to a year to sell, buy, or refinance their parents reverse mortgage if they both die. With any other mortgage they have 30 days to work it out. Nobody wants to deal with that fun during the loss of a parent.
 
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