Revising my daily consumption after 2yrs

ddc0715 · Sep 10, 2021

so I have not revised my consumption rate in a long time. now that I have my ph where I want it. I would like to fine-tune the alk dose.

was auto-dosing 45mls a day via a DOS. This amount was determined via a manual test (pre-apex). the alk range was 9.2 low to 9.5 high on average, running 4 tests daily.

I increased my dose amount to 55 MLS (randomly chose 10ml) to aid my ph. I like this alk range of 9.5-10. I then changed my dosing to 10 MLS each, for 24 hours, and here is what I see so far for my alk.

my light sch is as follows
07:00 =lights on (ramp up starts)
18:00 (6pm)=(ramp to lights off starts)
21:00 (9pm)= lights off
10hr dark period

9-7-21 (dosing 45 mls daily from 0:00 thru 23:00)
00:00= 9.52
06:00= 9.59
12:00= 8.97
18:00 (6pm)= 9.09

9-8-21 (dosing 55mls daily from 0:00 thru 23:00)
00:00= 9.4 .12 drop from 9-7-21 reading
06:00= 9.79 .20 increase from 9-7-21 reading
12:00= 9.65 .67 increase from 9-7-21 reading
18:00 (6 pm) = 9.99 .90 increase from 9-7-21 reading

9-9-21
00:00= 9.59 .19 increase from 9-8-21 reading
06:00= 10.04 .25 increase from 9-8-21 reading
08:00 = dosing change to 10 ml each from 0:00 thru 1:00
12:00= 9.69 .04 increase from 9-8-21 reading
18:00 (6 pm) = 9.63 .36 drop from 9-8-21 reading
i assume the increases after lowering the do amounts are due to my top off water haveing alk in it. its now back to clean rodi.

9-10-21
00:00= 9.35 .24 drop from 9-8-21 reading
06:00= 9.77 .27 drop from 9-8-21 reading
08:00 = from 4 upto 6 tests, dosing change to 1 ml each from 0:00 thru 1:00
12:00= ???
16:00= ???
20:00 = ?????

9-11-21
00:00= ???
04:00= ???
08:00 = ???
12:00= ???
16:00= ???
20:00 = ???

so my questions are:
how long should I run at 1ml daily to determine my consumption, before readjusting it back to 9.5-10 and setting the needed daily dose?

if I determine my consumption to be say 2 dkh daily drop, how many mls is needed?
can you point me to a good calculator?

arking_mark · Sep 10, 2021

I'm not sure what advice you are seeking and the information you are providing is unclear.

What is the size of your tank?

What are you dosing?

If you are trying to assess you Alk/Ca consumption you should take measurements for at least a week. There is no need to stop dosing to take measurements as the dosing should provide a specific amount of Alk/Ca (i.e. 45ml of product raises Alk/Ca by # for your tank size).

Also be aware that unbalanced dosing will eventually lead to ionic imbalance in tank parameters.

Randy Holmes-Farley · Sep 10, 2021

I agree that it is better and easier to get the demand from what you dose as opposed to stopping dosing, since alk and calcium demand decline as alk declines.

ddc0715 · Sep 10, 2021

yeah know it seems every time I ask a question people don't see a question. I'm sorry but I'm not sure how to ask a question that one will understand I mean they seem pretty straightforward questions to me

how long should I run at 1ml daily to determine my consumption, before readjusting it back to 9.5-10 and setting the needed daily dose?

if I determine my consumption to be say 2 dkh daily drop, how many mls is needed?
can you point me to a good calculator?

150g tank, dosing ALK,soda ash, white powder looking material, mixed with rodi water

if my alk never falls to say between 8.5 -9 for a day or two I do not see the ionic imbalance being impacted to Tank killing levels. if you do not agree with my approach that is fine I respect it.

Wiskey · Sep 10, 2021

I don't calculate that way because the lower level throws off the measurement.

I will set the doser somewhere safe, say 50 ML/Day and test Alk regularly. If I see 3 consecutive days where the ALK level drops, then I will dose it back to where I want it and slightly increase dosing and repeat the process. I will keep doing this until the ALK level stays somewhat stable over a week or more, then I will let it settle where it wants provided it's in the acceptable window and go back to weekly testing to make sure it stays there over time.

Whiskey

Randy Holmes-Farley · Sep 10, 2021

The changes from 9/7 to 9/10 indicate that it is basically stable within your ability to test. Whatever you were dosing is meeting the demand.

Since you were messing with it during this time, it's hard to get an exact number.

My suggestion is to dose 45 or 50 mL per day for a week and track alk once a day and see if it needs changing after that time.

DO NOT TRY TO CORRECT daily for tiny changes.

arking_mark · Sep 10, 2021

david campbell said:
yeah know it seems every time I ask a question people don't see a question. I'm sorry but I'm not sure how to ask a question that one will understand I mean they seem pretty straightforward questions to me

how long should I run at 1ml daily to determine my consumption, before readjusting it back to 9.5-10 and setting the needed daily dose?

if I determine my consumption to be say 2 dkh daily drop, how many mls is needed?
can you point me to a good calculator?

150g tank, dosing ALK,soda ash, white powder looking material, mixed with rodi water

if my alk never falls to say between 8.5 -9 for a day or two I do not see the ionic imbalance being impacted to Tank killing levels. if you do not agree with my approach that is fine I respect it.

Run 1ml per day of what?

What concentration are you creating with the soda ash? This determines how much Sodium Carbonale is being added per ml.

If you are only dosing Soda Ash (Sodium Carbonate), you are adding Na and CO3 to you tank. The CO3 increases Alkalinity and the Na increases the concentration of Na and consequently your salinity. Additionally, your tank consumes Allk and Ca almost equally to form abiotic and biological Calcium Carbonate. So by not dosing appropriate levels of Ca, your Ca levels are slowly dropping. In the long term, your Na and Ca levels will be out of ionic balance with your target levels.

ddc0715 · Sep 10, 2021

Thanks.i don't mess with tiny changes either. I have been running 45 ml of alk an ca for about 1 year. I will go back to the first of mid july an post those numbers shortly, that should aid us in determing if an adjustment needs to be made to my tank. Side note: do people not adjust their dosing levels when corals start growing more? I don't think this is an odd or strange question but maybe I'm wrong.

Wiskey · Sep 10, 2021

david campbell said:
Thanks.i don't mess with tiny changes either. I have been running 45 ml of alk an ca for about 1 year. I will go back to the first of mid july an post those numbers shortly, that should aid us in determing if an adjustment needs to be made to my tank. Side note: do people not adjust their dosing levels when corals start growing more? I don't think this is an odd or strange question but maybe I'm wrong.

I make adjustments when I see a long term trend. If my alk is 7.6 yesterday, and 7.5 today I don't touch it, but if I see it drop over a month to 7.4, then 7.3, then 7.2, then 7.1 then I would add 1 ML to the daily dose and do one manual dose to get me back to 7.5 then see if it's still falling after another month. When it stays in my window of 7-8 and it does not have a consistent trend I don't touch it.

These test kits have some amount of variability, so the difference in 7.6 and 7.5 can be a testing error, but if it continues down week after week I know my dosing is out of balance with consumption.

Whiskey

arking_mark · Sep 10, 2021

Wiskey said:
I make adjustments when I see a long term trend. If my alk is 7.6 yesterday, and 7.5 today I don't touch it, but if I see it drop over a month to 7.4, then 7.3, then 7.2, then 7.1 then I would add 1 ML to the daily dose and do one manual dose to get me back to 7.5 then see if it's still falling after another month. When it stays in my window of 7-8 and it does not have a consistent trend I don't touch it.

These test kits have some amount of variability, so the difference in 7.6 and 7.5 can be a testing error, but if it continues down week after week I know my dosing is out of balance with consumption.

Whiskey

I'm more of a control freak. I use GHL and automate dosing (with safeties). I'm currently doing ionically balanced dosing with Kalkwasser and All-for-reef. Without going into details, my GHL measures 3x a day and adjusts my AFR dosing accordingly (dosing is done 6x a day). Kalkwasse is continuously dosed at near evaporation limit.

Wiskey · Sep 10, 2021

arking_mark said:
I'm more of a control freak. I use GHL and automate dosing (with safeties). I'm currently doing ionically balanced dosing with Kalkwasser and All-for-reef. Without going into details, my GHL measures 3x a day and adjusts my AFR dosing accordingly (dosing is done 6x a day). Kalkwasse is continuously dosed at near evaporation limit.

I tried that at first with my Trident, Triton, and DOS on Apex but I found that it kept chasing levels that were probably testing errors and were only small deviations. This is what my last week looks like:

I found when I let the Apex react on it's own the tendency is to exaggerate these little fluxuations, but when I set it at a level and then observe readings over a week for trends I'm able to keep things more consistent.

Whiskey

ddc0715 · Sep 10, 2021

well here is what I pulled out of my apex. I have clearly tried this 1ml dose idea and clearly, there was a drop. (yellow). I assume it was because the 10+ plus alk levels, I was in had me concerned. oddly there was no disturbance in the force by me going to 1ml for three days it was a slow descent back to comfortable alk levels. so I can tell that 45 is too much because they started climbing again on 8-21-21.

I prefer the 9.5-10 range (orange) so 45 is too much.

in the beginning of the hobby, I told understand just picking a number, wait, record, then pick another number. I just assumed 2 things
1. with the addition of the apex trident that one could use real data to fine-tune your dose and not just pick another random (higher or lower) number and observe.
2. there was some mathematical formula using real data to derive a more accurate dosing figure. I LOVE THAT KINDA STUFF.

I'm just going to set the dose amount to forty and see what happens.BORING!!!! Thanks, everyone. I guess the microscope I ordered is a bit much to have hanging around?

arking_mark · Sep 10, 2021

Wiskey said:
I tried that at first with my Trident, Triton, and DOS on Apex but I found that it kept chasing levels that were probably testing errors and were only small deviations. This is what my last week looks like:

I found when I let the Apex react on it's own the tendency is to exaggerate these little fluxuations, but when I set it at a level and then observe readings over a week for trends I'm able to keep things more consistent.

Whiskey

I set mine not to chase. It has a nominal dose set and is only allowed to adjust the dose by 0.1 dKH from nominal. Since pH has a moderate impact on abiotic and biological CaCO3 consumption, enabling the doser to account for that improved my stability. If overall consumption increases or decreases beyond what the doser can account for, then like you, I adjust the nominal dose. This approach also means that if there is an error in measurement, which does happen, there is little to no impact to the tank.

arking_mark · Sep 10, 2021

david campbell said:
well here is what I pulled out of my apex. I have clearly tried this 1ml dose idea and clearly, there was a drop. (yellow). I assume it was because the 10+ plus alk levels, I was in had me concerned. oddly there was no disturbance in the force by me going to 1ml for three days it was a slow descent back to comfortable alk levels. so I can tell that 45 is too much because they started climbing again on 8-21-21.

I prefer the 9.5-10 range (orange) so 45 is too much.

in the beginning of the hobby, I told understand just picking a number, wait, record, then pick another number. I just assumed 2 things
1. with the addition of the apex trident that one could use real data to fine-tune your dose and not just pick another random (higher or lower) number and observe.
2. there was some mathematical formula using real data to derive a more accurate dosing figure. I LOVE THAT KINDA STUFF.

I'm just going to set the dose amount to forty and see what happens.BORING!!!! Thanks, everyone. I guess the microscope I ordered is a bit much to have hanging around?

Mature tanks will typically consume 0.5 - 4.5 dKH per day.

If you are using BRS Soda Ash and mixing to their instructions, then 9ml should raise your 150gal tank by roughly 0.5 dKH. (If my math is right)

45 ml would be supplementing the tank by 2.5 dKH per day.

2.5 dKH is probably right for a mature mixed reef. Others can share their thoughts on what they typically see.

So if you want a more scientific way to dial in your dosing, use the math. Roughly 1.8 ml per 0.1 dKH. What's cool is that you can dose and then shortly thereafter test to see the change. Dose 1.8mI and see if my calculation is right (+/- 0.05 for Apex precision).