Advice on recent RTN

[emart805]

I recently asked Randy Holmes in the chemistry section about the chemical parameters that could be causing RTN in my tank and he didn't see a chemical reason. So I'd like to know if someone in this forum can ID anything that my be causing some recent loses from my parameters below.

Phosphate = 0.12 (Hanna)
Ammonia = 0 (API)
Nitrate = 0 (API)
Nitrite = 0 (API)

I’m having trouble getting my alkalinity above 8 without increasing PH. My tank is about 8 months old and I have the following equipment (trying to build for SPS dominated mixed reef):

- Innovative Marine INT 112 Lagoon - DIMS: 35.4” x 35.4” x 19.7"
- 2x XR30 Pro Lights G6 - set to 60%
- 2x MP40 - set to 75%
- Coralife Turbo-Twist UV Fish Tank Sterilizer 6X, Up to 250 Gallons
- PaxBellum N24
- Red Sea Skimmer 300
- JBJ Arctica 1/3hp chiller
- 30g Trigger Systems sump (CRYS30S)
- about 75lbs marco dry rock (starting to encrust)
- I've added pod populations and have been feeding Reef Roids and phyto daily.
- I have a powder blue tang, a blue eyed tang and one clown fish (I had more fish but they caught a nasty virus that killed many overnight--the survivors made it through QT)

I'm currently dosing Two Little Fishies ATLCB4B C-Balance (A&B) 16ml per day, two hours apart. Part A is dosed between 17:00 and 21:00 and Part B is dosed between 00:00 and 05:00. I've had to use soda water to lower PH a few times and it works temporarily, but I can't seem to get ALK over 8.

I currently have only a 4 SPS frags in my tank and a couple of LPS frags, so I don't think the demands are necessarily high. However, I did lose a few frags and given the parameters I just can't explain why.

1. Can you give me advise on how to increase ALK without increasing PH (specific products I could use and in what quantities and intervals)?
2. Do you see anything in my current parameters that would explain past coral RTN?

Thanks in advance!

 

[Waters]

How long has the tank been set up? The high ALK demand (at this stage) is probably due to the sand bed. Every tank I have set up that wasn't BB used an unbelievable amount of ALK. If you stir the bed, is it starting to clump up and harden? Will often start under the rock.

 

[emart805]

How long has the tank been set up? The high ALK demand (at this stage) is probably due to the sand bed. Every tank I have set up that wasn't BB used an unbelievable amount of ALK. If you stir the bed, is it starting to clump up and harden? Will often start under the rock.

I've had the tank up about 8 months. I haven't noticed any hardening or clumping when stirring the sand bed (the rocks are flat on the bottom and sitting directly on the glass--so no sand underneath.

 

[Troylee]

I recently asked Randy Holmes in the chemistry section about the chemical parameters that could be causing RTN in my tank and he didn't see a chemical reason. So I'd like to know if someone in this forum can ID anything that my be causing some recent loses from my parameters below.

Phosphate = 0.12 (Hanna)
Ammonia = 0 (API)
Nitrate = 0 (API)
Nitrite = 0 (API)

I’m having trouble getting my alkalinity above 8 without increasing PH. My tank is about 8 months old and I have the following equipment (trying to build for SPS dominated mixed reef):

- Innovative Marine INT 112 Lagoon - DIMS: 35.4” x 35.4” x 19.7"
- 2x XR30 Pro Lights G6 - set to 60%
- 2x MP40 - set to 75%
- Coralife Turbo-Twist UV Fish Tank Sterilizer 6X, Up to 250 Gallons
- PaxBellum N24
- Red Sea Skimmer 300
- JBJ Arctica 1/3hp chiller
- 30g Trigger Systems sump (CRYS30S)
- about 75lbs marco dry rock (starting to encrust)
- I've added pod populations and have been feeding Reef Roids and phyto daily.
- I have a powder blue tang, a blue eyed tang and one clown fish (I had more fish but they caught a nasty virus that killed many overnight--the survivors made it through QT)

I'm currently dosing Two Little Fishies ATLCB4B C-Balance (A&B) 16ml per day, two hours apart. Part A is dosed between 17:00 and 21:00 and Part B is dosed between 00:00 and 05:00. I've had to use soda water to lower PH a few times and it works temporarily, but I can't seem to get ALK over 8.

I currently have only a 4 SPS frags in my tank and a couple of LPS frags, so I don't think the demands are necessarily high. However, I did lose a few frags and given the parameters I just can't explain why.

1. Can you give me advise on how to increase ALK without increasing PH (specific products I could use and in what quantities and intervals)?
2. Do you see anything in my current parameters that would explain past coral RTN?

Thanks in advance!

Why exactly are you trying to raise alk and not ph? Ideal ph in a sps reef would be 8.4. I top off with kalk and use all for reef and can’t get my ph over 8.15 lol.. I got a skimmer line ran outside also! Wish I had a high ph problem

 

[emart805]

Why exactly are you trying to raise alk and not ph? Ideal ph in a sps reef would be 8.4. I top off with kalk and use all for reef and can’t get my ph over 8.15 lol.. I got a skimmer line ran outside also! Wish I had a high ph problem

I want to stabilize my ALK at above 8, but when I dose ALK my PH goes past 8.4 quickly and my ALK barely moves.

 

[Dburr1014]

I want to stabilize my ALK at above 8, but when I dose ALK my PH goes past 8.4 quickly and my ALK barely moves.

Do you know your magnesium number?
And 8 DKH of alk is a fine number to be at.

 

[emart805]

Do you know your magnesium number?

1435mg. Other stats on the screenshot in my original post (wondering if it's showing up for you at this point).

 

[Dburr1014]

1435mg. Other stats on the screenshot in my original post (wondering if it's showing up for you at this point).

Oh, duh. Sorry, I always forget to look at the 3 shape things at the top. Lol.
I was asking about the mag cuz that sometimes interferes with the alk number if to low.

Do you have enough fish for the tank? I see you have 0 nitrate but API can't really give you that hard number. Don't worry about ammonia and nitrite anymore.
Coral need p and n. The best way is to feed the fish. But you may not have enough. 3 fish in therr is tough, maybe think about dosing n? Sorry about your losses.

I will say it's hard in young tanks for hard corals. Did you start with dry rock or some live established rock? Dry rock will take longer to set that complete biome. A piece of established live rock will be quicker.

 

[Troylee]

I want to stabilize my ALK at above 8, but when I dose ALK my PH goes past 8.4 quickly and my ALK barely moves.

The ph rise from kalk is temporary… with all that being said if you wanted to, get a high alk salt mix like reef crystals “that’s what I use” and do a decent size water change it would get it up and then start dosing all for reef to keep your target numbers inline without affecting your ph.

 

[emart805]

Oh, duh. Sorry, I always forget to look at the 3 shape things at the top. Lol.
I was asking about the mag cuz that sometimes interferes with the alk number if to low.

Do you have enough fish for the tank? I see you have 0 nitrate but API can't really give you that hard number. Don't worry about ammonia and nitrite anymore.
Coral need p and n. The best way is to feed the fish. But you may not have enough. 3 fish in therr is tough, maybe think about dosing n? Sorry about your losses.

I will say it's hard in young tanks for hard corals. Did you start with dry rock or some live established rock? Dry rock will take longer to set that complete biome. A piece of established live rock will be quicker.

I started with dry rock. I think the fish issue is real for me, I've been hesitating to add more fish since my last fish exodus--waiting the requisite period of time for any diseases to go away. I like the idea of adding a piece of established rock--I was wrestling with that thought myself, but hesitated because I didn't want to introduce any surprise pests.

 

[emart805]

The ph rise from kalk is temporary… with all that being said if you wanted to, get a high alk salt mix like reef crystals “that’s what I use” and do a decent size water change it would get it up and then start dosing all for reef to keep your target numbers inline without affecting your ph.

Gonna have to get a larger salt mix container for this!

 

[David_CO]

I would recommend testing parameters with some higher quality test kits. 0 nitrate is bad but api is notoriously inaccurate. Would also be good to confirm accurate salinity and confirm the trident readings.

 

[reef_ranch]

I don't think your issues are related to you alk or Ph, both are fine. The tank may just need a bit more time before some sps are happy. Unless there is an issue with the quality of your top off water (high chloramine in the municipal water supply, if not properly removed with a carbon block is in my experience an sps killer), I would stay the course and try another frag.

 

[emart805]

Since I started this post I sent for an ICP test and wanted to share the results and ask for advise on how to course correct and next steps. SPS still RTNing but LPS and softies doing OK. All help is appreciated:

Tank water

Loading…

lab.atiaquaristik.com

RO

Analysis result

ATI Aquaristik - Lab

lab.atiaquaristik.com

 

[Joekovar]

I'm trying to understand how your RO zinc level is 40x the tank level.

 

[emart805]

*shrug*

 

[emart805]

Any advise on the test results?

 

[Pod_01]

So some opinion, from the test you might want to increase Iodine.
Going forward maybe consider dosing Tropic Marin A and K elements.

Before you add more sps sticks and they RTN maybe consider other corals.
Zoas are nice:

Chalice are nice as well:

If you really want to try sps consider Montipora or Setosa:

They are all relatively fast growing corals and they should help make your reef stable so sps sticks can thrive.

Good luck,

 

[emart805]

Thanks for the recommendation, and it sounds like what you're saying is to stay away from SPS for now? I appreciate the recommendation. However, that wasn't my original question. I was hoping to get a recommendation on how to course correct the water parameters or my tank set-up in order to be able to keep SPS right now (as a reminder all my equipment and parameters are listed in the original post). Thanks in advance!

 

[Pod_01]

I was hoping to get a recommendation on how to course correct the water parameters or my tank set-up in order to be able to keep SPS right now (as a reminder all my equipment and parameters are listed in the original post).

Hmmm…. Let’s try another way. There is no way to course correct a tank so suddenly it will support SPS corals. SPS are some of the most difficult corals to keep and even seasoned reefers struggle to keep them.
I wish there were couple of dials to tune and suddenly you get full SPS tank. If you find them, please do share.

Over time the reef tank matures and if it can support easier corals eventually it will support SPS. Since your SPS frags RTN your tank has not matured yet, and best path forward is to try other corals.
Alternatively you can explain to the corals that since you have top of the line equipment they should grow. Maybe that works!!!

I did state that you should increase Iodine and consider dosing TM A and K ( trace elements). Alternatively you can try Moonshiners method.

Good luck,