Robotank. Drain solenoid fail

CSremo

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I’ve been building out a Robotank controller for a little while now. I have basic functions working great.
I’m using 1/4” tub with a solenoid on the downhill side under siphon in the built in sump on my Red Sea Max nano tank. It drains down into my basement in a drain. The tub is in the last chamber of the sump near or at the bottom.
this line is how I do auto water change. The RT is set up to turn on the solenoid and drain out 1/2 gallon per day trough a timer and a macro that then fills it back up with premixed salt waterusing non contact sensors on my tank. It has been working great for a few months.
last night apparently the drain solenoid failed a little. It was dripping when I woke up and the ato chamber was empty. Approximately 3 gallons went into the 20 gal reef tank. now my water is at 1.022 instead of 1.025. Not a huge issue, I’ll gradually raise it back up with top off from the sat chamber instead of makeup water.

my question is what do I do to keep a new solenoid from failing? I assume it failed because it’s draining non-pure water. Salt, debris, who knows what from the sump. I know I need to raise up the tube in the sump to keep it off the bottom.

What else can/ should I do?

some kind of filter?
I’m using a timer on the drain function so if the filter gets a little clogged or slows down, it won’t drain the appropriate amount of water.

a second solenoid in line as a failsafe?
Good as a failsafe but I won’t know that the first one is failing until they both fail and it may not really buy much time?

some kind of flush loop to flush the solenoid before closing with the second solenoid option?
Seems overly complicated.
I don’t have much room to use a pump and a pump from my sump to my lower drain will still siphon without a siphon break.

any ideas?
 

Larry L

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I'm not sure but maybe a plastic electric actuated ball valve would be more resistant to clogging/sticking than the solenoid you are using. They sell them at e.g. Grainger.com.

Like you mentioned you could always try to figure out a way to fit in a pump with a siphon break - I think that would be safest overall.
 

theatrus

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Would second actuated ball valve.

Solenoid valves are usually a diaphragm type, so they depend on a rubber or other plastic surface mating flush with the seat closing the port.

(Image shamelessly borrowed off the google image search)

1602466019799.png


Any bit of debris sticking into the interface would cause a leak. And our tanks are full of debris, little organisms, etc. A filter would help, but may defeat the automation aspect as all the stuff you would drain would instead be stuck in the filter (so would require changing that as well). I'd lean to just going overkill and using a larger pore sediment filter for RO systems (5-10 micron or more).

Actuated ball valves solve the leak problem as they slide the sealing surface against the gasket and "brush off" any accumulated debris.

Making the drain active with a peristaltic pump is another option, but the tubing interface may also leak. Siphon breaks would help, but it gets more complicated to set that up and siphon intakes sometimes seal themselves with salt residue.
 
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CSremo

CSremo

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Would second actuated ball valve.

Solenoid valves are usually a diaphragm type, so they depend on a rubber or other plastic surface mating flush with the seat closing the port.

(Image shamelessly borrowed off the google image search)

1602466019799.png


Any bit of debris sticking into the interface would cause a leak. And our tanks are full of debris, little organisms, etc. A filter would help, but may defeat the automation aspect as all the stuff you would drain would instead be stuck in the filter (so would require changing that as well). I'd lean to just going overkill and using a larger pore sediment filter for RO systems (5-10 micron or more).

Actuated ball valves solve the leak problem as they slide the sealing surface against the gasket and "brush off" any accumulated debris.

Making the drain active with a peristaltic pump is another option, but the tubing interface may also leak. Siphon breaks would help, but it gets more complicated to set that up and siphon intakes sometimes seal themselves with salt residue.

Thanks for taking the time on this.
any idea where to get a pvc ball valve like this?
Not finding anything but brass and steel.
 

theatrus

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https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/w...ode-red-raspberry-pi-controller-build.716452/ used some really fancy models with lots of independent fail safes

Problem is lots of the actuated ball valve pricing will make your eyes water ($300-500):

etc etc
 

Larry L

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something like this?

 

theatrus

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something like this?


Looks like the price winner here :)
 
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CSremo

CSremo

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Man, lot of money for 1 valve. Bummer. I am finding the same prices everywhere.
thank you all for your help on this.

Maybe a pump is gonna be the option.
Any pumps with built in siphon breaks? I’m thinking an in-line pump will be the way to go. 12v dc. Could just replace the solenoid same location and everything with an inline pump.
Suggestions?
 

theatrus

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Man, lot of money for 1 valve. Bummer. I am finding the same prices everywhere.
thank you all for your help on this.

Maybe a pump is gonna be the option.
Any pumps with built in siphon breaks? I’m thinking an in-line pump will be the way to go. 12v dc. Could just replace the solenoid same location and everything with an inline pump.
Suggestions?

Thought:

Use a peristaltic pump _and_ the solenoid you have now (the BRS peristaltic dosers maybe? the faster 50ml/minute version). The solenoid is on a T to the intake (vacuum side) of the pump, and above the pump and water level of the sump. When the pump is running, you close the valve. To "shut off" the pump, open the solenoid to allow air into the intake, which will drain the portion of intake tubing. This is even better if you can reverse the solenoid to be normally open instead of normally closed.

You could do the same with a normal pump (non-peristaltic) but would need to put the drain solenoid at the pump output side above water level. The solenoid would get wet on one side (when the pump is running), but have a chance of cleaning out when it opens to let air into the high output tube. I like this idea less well since the failure of the valve means the siphon will not break, or the pump will spray backwards out of the solenoid valve if it fails to close. The peristaltic pump has two fail saves (the pump rollers clamping the tubing closed, and the siphon break)

Since the solenoid is above the tank water level it will probably be 90% dry inside.
 

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