Royal Gramma Rubbing Against Glass

[HerthaYid]

Hi All. My tank is around 4 months old and i've had my royal gramma for a couple months now. I recently noticed it rubbing against the back glass a lot, in quite a rapid motion. I've also seen him do it against rocks a couple times. I'm wondering if it could be gill flukes? I don't see any white spots or any other noticeable changes on him. He is still eating and no loss of colour at all. He does seem a little stressed and keeps opening his mouth at my bangai cardinal if he gets near.

0 ammonia
8 nitrate
0 nitrite
phosphates 0.05
7.7 ph
25c temperature
1.025 water salinity

Should I do a freshwater dip?

 

[JTP424]

The opening on the mouth and the Bangai is most likely him being territorial.
Regarding the "flashing" i.e. the rubbing against rocks/sand/glass, do you have any hydroids or bristle worms etc?
Maybe got poked by something small.

 

[MnFish1]

Hi All. My tank is around 4 months old and i've had my royal gramma for a couple months now. I recently noticed it rubbing against the back glass a lot, in quite a rapid motion. I've also seen him do it against rocks a couple times. I'm wondering if it could be gill flukes? I don't see any white spots or any other noticeable changes on him. He is still eating and no loss of colour at all. He does seem a little stressed and keeps opening his mouth at my bangai cardinal if he gets near.

0 ammonia
8 nitrate
0 nitrite
phosphates 0.05
7.7 ph
25c temperature
1.025 water salinity

Should I do a freshwater dip?

Did you QT the fish up front? Any other fish sick? Breathing normal? Could it be neurotic behavior? PS I can't see the video

 

[HerthaYid]

The opening on the mouth and the Bangai is most likely him being territorial.
Regarding the "flashing" i.e. the rubbing against rocks/sand/glass, do you have any hydroids or bristle worms etc?
Maybe got poked by something small.

Nope, I started out with dry rock and I don't think i've had any hitchhikers yet, so shouldn't be anything like that.

Did you QT the fish up front? Any other fish sick? Breathing normal? Could it be neurotic behavior? PS I can't see the video

I didn't QT. All other fish seem fine, breathing was normal but tonight (and in the video) his breathing appears to be fairly rapid.

 

[DCR]

Grammas are very prone to parasites and they are often difficult to see on them. The scratching might suggest ich or velvet, but it looks healthy from your pictures. I would not stress it out with a freshwater dip as it will not do anything for ich or velvet.

 

[MnFish1]

Nope, I started out with dry rock and I don't think i've had any hitchhikers yet, so shouldn't be anything like that.


I didn't QT. All other fish seem fine, breathing was normal but tonight (and in the video) his breathing appears to be fairly rapid.

I cannot see the video - can you estimate the rate? The mouth issue may be territorial - or could be a fluke symtpom.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Hi All. My tank is around 4 months old and i've had my royal gramma for a couple months now. I recently noticed it rubbing against the back glass a lot, in quite a rapid motion. I've also seen him do it against rocks a couple times. I'm wondering if it could be gill flukes? I don't see any white spots or any other noticeable changes on him. He is still eating and no loss of colour at all. He does seem a little stressed and keeps opening his mouth at my bangai cardinal if he gets near.

0 ammonia
8 nitrate
0 nitrite
phosphates 0.05
7.7 ph
25c temperature
1.025 water salinity

Should I do a freshwater dip?

I could view the video on my desktop computer - that is "flashing" and it is a prime symptom of flukes. Royal Gramma are really prone to gill flukes.

A FW dip would just be a temporary fix, the flukes would just come back.

You can dose the tank with Prazipro, 2x, 8 days apart with good aeration. Change 25% of the water prior to the second treatment.

Jay

 

[HerthaYid]

Ok so tonight he is even more erratic and is sometimes hiding in a cave which isn't normal for him. I can now also see lots of white spots on his fins and I think some on his head. See these pictures. Is it Ick?

 

[HerthaYid]

Struggled to find the right medicine for gill flukes here in Germany. I've found this, hopefully its the right stuff. https://www.aquaristikshop.com/aquaristic/Sera-Phyto-med-Tremazid/386922/

 

[DCR]

Those are not flukes. Most likely either ich or velvet (I am never sure which). Copper is the best treatment

 

[TheBear78]

My Royal Gramma is normally an aggressive feeder once the frozen food goes in but a couple of months after I got him he stopped eating. A couple of days later he looked like yours with fine glitter like spots.
Just after this my Foxface Rabbitfish also appeared to have a couple of spots but these were more pronounced.
My LFS suggested NT Labs Anti-bacterial treatment (in tank) followed by NT Labs Paratonical treatment for a few days afterwards.
I don't know the exact details of what is in these and how they compare to other medication available in the US or Germany but it worked. This was over a year ago and all is well.
The Foxface still shows occasional marks in the area where there were spots but these are definitely stress related and while they may show up after tank cleaning it's very occasional.
Other inhabitants at the time were 2 Clowns, a Convict Tang, an Orangespot Goby, 5 Chromis, some shrimp, hermits and snails. Some softies and LPS.
No ill effects for any.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Struggled to find the right medicine for gill flukes here in Germany. I've found this, hopefully its the right stuff. https://www.aquaristikshop.com/aquaristic/Sera-Phyto-med-Tremazid/386922/

So - your more recent pictures show ich spots. The fish could also have flukes (ich doesn't cause a fish to scratch as much as flukes will). However, these spots are clearly ich.

That medication is a herbal tonic, it won't be 100% effective against flukes, and it won't work for ich at all.

Getting proper medications in the EU, Canada and Great Britain is a huge issue. In the US, we would dose it with coppersafe and praziquantel.

Gyrodol Plus, eSHA gdex or Dactymor will work on flukes.

There are not a lot of good options for ich:

Oodinol Plus has copper in it, but you need to have a good copper test kit and measure it daily.
Can you get Seachem products? If so, you could use Cupramine.
Can you get chloroquine from a veterinarian?

Jay

 

[HerthaYid]

So - your more recent pictures show ich spots. The fish could also have flukes (ich doesn't cause a fish to scratch as much as flukes will). However, these spots are clearly ich.

That medication is a herbal tonic, it won't be 100% effective against flukes, and it won't work for ich at all.

Getting proper medications in the EU, Canada and Great Britain is a huge issue. In the US, we would dose it with coppersafe and praziquantel.

Gyrodol Plus, eSHA gdex or Dactymor will work on flukes.

There are not a lot of good options for ich:

Oodinol Plus has copper in it, but you need to have a good copper test kit and measure it daily.
Can you get Seachem products? If so, you could use Cupramine.
Can you get chloroquine from a veterinarian?

Jay

Thanks Jay. I’ve cancelled that one and ordered dactymor for the potential flukes.

Microbe lift is an american brand that is popular in Germany. Would this work to treat the ich or is it more of a preventative?

https://microbelift.com/product/herbtana-fresh-and-saltwater/

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Thanks Jay. I’ve cancelled that one and ordered dactymor for the potential flukes.

Microbe lift is an american brand that is popular in Germany. Would this work to treat the ich or is it more of a preventative?

https://microbelift.com/product/herbtana-fresh-and-saltwater/

That is another "herbal" remedy. I haven't used it (I don't use remedies like that) but the reports I've heard back from other people are mixed at best.

Jay

 

[HerthaYid]

That is another "herbal" remedy. I haven't used it (I don't use remedies like that) but the reports I've heard back from other people are mixed at best.

Jay

ah ok, i’ve found seachem cupramine on amazon and gone with that for the ich. Thanks for the help.

I don’t have a QT tank though, i’ll need to buy one right? I see you have to remove all invertebrates before using this.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

ah ok, i’ve found seachem cupramine on amazon and gone with that for the ich. Thanks for the help.

I don’t have a QT tank though, i’ll need to buy one right? I see you have to remove all invertebrates before using this.

Yes, you need to remove all the invertebrates, but also remove all of the calcium based rock and sand. Some people find a QT much easier to deal with.

What about move the invertebrates out and run hyposalinity?

Hyposalinity

Hyposalinity Jay Hemdal 2021 This term refers to a long-term bath treatment for marine fishes in which the salt content of the water is lowered and held below the point that certain parasites can survive. The salt level reached, and the time of the treatment are the two variables...

www.reef2reef.com

Jay

 

[HerthaYid]

Yes, you need to remove all the invertebrates, but also remove all of the calcium based rock and sand. Some people find a QT much easier to deal with.

What about move the invertebrates out and run hyposalinity?

Hyposalinity

Hyposalinity Jay Hemdal 2021 This term refers to a long-term bath treatment for marine fishes in which the salt content of the water is lowered and held below the point that certain parasites can survive. The salt level reached, and the time of the treatment are the two variables...

www.reef2reef.com

Jay

Yeah i think i'll try hyposalinity, seems like an easier option if I don't have to move sand and rock out the DT.

 

[Chris Long]

My Royal Gramma is normally an aggressive feeder once the frozen food goes in but a couple of months after I got him he stopped eating. A couple of days later he looked like yours with fine glitter like spots.
Just after this my Foxface Rabbitfish also appeared to have a couple of spots but these were more pronounced.
My LFS suggested NT Labs Anti-bacterialAnti-bacterial treatment (in tank) followed by NT Labs Paratonical treatment for a few days afterwards.
I don't know the exact details of what is in these and how they compare to other medication available in the US or Germany but it worked. This was over a year ago and all is well.
The Foxface still shows occasional marks in the area where there were spots but these are definitely stress related and while they may show up after tank cleaning it's very occasional.
Other inhabitants at the time were 2 Clowns, a Convict Tang, an Orangespot Goby, 5 Chromis, some shrimp, hermits and snails. Some softies and LPS.
No ill effects for any.

Hi looking at dosing the same treatment nt labs anti bacterial followed by nt labs Paratonical how long did you wait till you but the Paratonical in please?