Royal gramma with Ich?.. what do I do

[JFinlay]

Hey guys, very upset but I believe my gramma has Ich. It has been flashing and now has some pretty large white dots all over it’s body. I thought I saw them a week ago but they must’ve went away and came back stronger.

My question is what do I do? I don’t have a QT, my one LFS does QT and doesn’t run copper in tanks etc so I never bothered. I haven’t added any fish in 3 months or so. My most recent addition was a conch snail from another LFS predator tank about a month ago, could that have carried Ich?

I have selcon, garlic guard and Vitachem already that food gets soaked in daily.

The reason I debate running and grabbing a QT tank is first my DT is only a 40 breeder, and I plan on purchasing a 120-150 gallon tank during Black Friday. Should I try and do some “Ich management” and hope for the best until Black Friday and I can just use my 40 as a QT and move everything else over? Or do you think I can manage to fit 7 fish in a 20 gallon QT? because of how stressful it would be to move them all and then cram them in a new tank. Idk what to do..

 

[Pickle_soup]

It's your call what you will do, but the idea of "ich management" in my opinion is a myth. Once fish have it, there is nothing that can "manage" it. You will have to QT these fish anyway at this point. 7 small fish in a QT is not the end of the world. You have to assume that you will bring ich with your corals and LR to your new tank, so those corals and LR have to go fallow anyway. I would go with a new QT. You can use it later for fish, and keep your 40g for coral and invert Qt if you have room.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Treatment in a QT with Coppersafe is your best bet, next best would be hyposalinity. The third choice would be ich management.

I can't confirm that the fish has ich from those photos, I only can see one distinct spot. However, your note that there were spots and then they went away and then returned is exactly what ich does in the early stages.

If you want to explore ich management, here is a write-up I did about that:

Starting Ich Management during an active infection only works if the number of trophonts on the fish is below a certain number. Above that number and the trophonts themselves become stressors and the parasite gains a foothold, despite your attempts to manage it. So what is that number? It depends on too many variables - but I start to expect Ich Management to fail if the number of spots on any one fish is above 30 or so.

Here is my protocol for ich management. Please understand that I am NOT presenting this as an optimum method for controlling ich, just putting it out there for people who want to try it. Also, do not pick and choose which items you want to follow - you need to go with all guns blazing and use them all.

“Ich Management” Because many aquarists mix fish and invertebrates, they are ill-prepared to then treat for marine ich, as the two best treatments, amine-based copper or hyposalinity, cannot be used with invertebrates. A popular technique has then arisen, “ich management”. It is popular not because it works well, but because it is an easier alternative. Be forewarned, it often fails if applied during moderate infections. The reason that it exists as a technique at all is because people find themselves in situations like this and are desperate to try anything.

The basic idea is to reduce the infective propagules (tomites) of the ich parasite to the point where the fish's acquired immunity can fight the infection off. This is done through a series of techniques for stress reduction and tomite limiting. Unfortunately, the ich tomites themselves cause stress to the fish, so if the fish have more than 30 or so trophonts on them, the method often fails.

1) Install a powerful UV sterilizer on the aquarium.
2) Ensure that the fish's diet and water quality are the best you can make them.
3) Keep the water temperature close to 78 degrees F.
4) Siphon off the tank floor nightly to remove as many tomonts as possible.
5) Employ strong filtration to trap as many tomites as possible.
6) Try a proprietary "reef safe" marine ich medication. These rarely cure ich infections on their own, but some may have benefit when combined with other management methods. Avoid the herbal remedies, focus on those that contain peroxide salts. There is, however, some evidence that using peroxides with UV does not work, as the UV can break down the peroxides.

Jay

 

[JFinlay]

Treatment in a QT with Coppersafe is your best bet, next best would be hyposalinity. The third choice would be ich management.

I can't confirm that the fish has ich from those photos, I only can see one distinct spot. However, your note that there were spots and then they went away and then returned is exactly what ich does in the early stages.

If you want to explore ich management, here is a write-up I did about that:

Starting Ich Management during an active infection only works if the number of trophonts on the fish is below a certain number. Above that number and the trophonts themselves become stressors and the parasite gains a foothold, despite your attempts to manage it. So what is that number? It depends on too many variables - but I start to expect Ich Management to fail if the number of spots on any one fish is above 30 or so.

Here is my protocol for ich management. Please understand that I am NOT presenting this as an optimum method for controlling ich, just putting it out there for people who want to try it. Also, do not pick and choose which items you want to follow - you need to go with all guns blazing and use them all.

“Ich Management” Because many aquarists mix fish and invertebrates, they are ill-prepared to then treat for marine ich, as the two best treatments, amine-based copper or hyposalinity, cannot be used with invertebrates. A popular technique has then arisen, “ich management”. It is popular not because it works well, but because it is an easier alternative. Be forewarned, it often fails if applied during moderate infections. The reason that it exists as a technique at all is because people find themselves in situations like this and are desperate to try anything.

The basic idea is to reduce the infective propagules (tomites) of the ich parasite to the point where the fish's acquired immunity can fight the infection off. This is done through a series of techniques for stress reduction and tomite limiting. Unfortunately, the ich tomites themselves cause stress to the fish, so if the fish have more than 30 or so trophonts on them, the method often fails.

1) Install a powerful UV sterilizer on the aquarium.
2) Ensure that the fish's diet and water quality are the best you can make them.
3) Keep the water temperature close to 78 degrees F.
4) Siphon off the tank floor nightly to remove as many tomonts as possible.
5) Employ strong filtration to trap as many tomites as possible.
6) Try a proprietary "reef safe" marine ich medication. These rarely cure ich infections on their own, but some may have benefit when combined with other management methods. Avoid the herbal remedies, focus on those that contain peroxide salts. There is, however, some evidence that using peroxides with UV does not work, as the UV can break down the peroxides.

Jay

I haven’t read much into hyposalinity, is that able to be done with corals/inverts in tank? How long does a healthy fish typically last after it’s first signs of Ich? My best option would obviously be to just wait for a new tank but he looks bad today.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I haven’t read much into hyposalinity, is that able to be done with corals/inverts in tank? How long does a healthy fish typically last after it’s first signs of Ich? My best option would obviously be to just wait for a new tank but he looks bad today.

Sorry, no - hyposalinity cannot be done with invertebrates/corals in the same tank. Here is a post I made about that:

Hyposalinity

Hyposalinity Jay Hemdal 2021 This term refers to a long-term bath treatment for marine fishes in which the salt content of the water is lowered and held below the point that certain parasites can survive. The salt level reached, and the time of the treatment are the two variables...

www.reef2reef.com

Jay

 

[Pickle_soup]

I haven’t read much into hyposalinity, is that able to be done with corals/inverts in tank? How long does a healthy fish typically last after it’s first signs of Ich? My best option would obviously be to just wait for a new tank but he looks bad today.

Depends on how severely it's infected and location. If it's in the gills its chances to survive are greatly reduced.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Hey guys, very upset but I believe my gramma has Ich. It has been flashing and now has some pretty large white dots all over it’s body. I thought I saw them a week ago but they must’ve went away and came back stronger.

My question is what do I do? I don’t have a QT, my one LFS does QT and doesn’t run copper in tanks etc so I never bothered. I haven’t added any fish in 3 months or so. My most recent addition was a conch snail from another LFS predator tank about a month ago, could that have carried Ich?

I have selcon, garlic guard and Vitachem already that food gets soaked in daily.

The reason I debate running and grabbing a QT tank is first my DT is only a 40 breeder, and I plan on purchasing a 120-150 gallon tank during Black Friday. Should I try and do some “Ich management” and hope for the best until Black Friday and I can just use my 40 as a QT and move everything else over? Or do you think I can manage to fit 7 fish in a 20 gallon QT? because of how stressful it would be to move them all and then cram them in a new tank. Idk what to do..

Jays advice is what you want to follow. Ich management is often a short cut and a gamble and while it appears easier is often ineffective. Coppersafe as mentioned will be most effective and regarding 40b tank, If youre waiting until Black Friday, I would not plan on any fish until they can be properly quarantined and you are prepared for treatment moving forward.