Salt Water Mix

[jsker]

Planning to go with this fella: https://www.seahorseaquariums.com/Red-Sea-Coral-Pro-Salt-7-kg/5295?search=Red Sea CoralPro

Honestly I should've probably already started the research before buying and it's already dispatched so waiting for it. Hopefully it doesn't take so long to mix

I used to be a Red Sea person, and nothing else. Once I tried the Aquaforest, I have been very happy.

 

[Bohemian Waxwing]

RODI shouldn't be a deal breaker in my opinion.

One option for tap water would be to go with a fish only tank with less intense lighting. You will still have algae growth but it won't kill off expensive coral. When you do not have coral in the tank, it opens up a world of harsher algae control methods that you normally wouldn't be able to consider.

Another option is to look for bottled RO or distilled - these stores sell water in jugs that are used for water coolers. This water is going to only be RO with no de-ionization stage, but I have run a reef with softies and less intense lighting using bulk RO from a water store. My tank was around your size and I just lugged a couple jugs home a couple times a month for top off and water changes. Grocery stores here in North America also sell these jugs, sometimes they are RO and sometimes they are distilled.

My local grocery store has an exchange program where you pay about $.80/US gal Canadian to exchange these jugs, and the distilled water within hovers around 20 TDS (lower is better, RODI is 0).

The best option would be an at home, faucet connected RODI system. These are nice because you don't need to do any plumbing - they just screw on to a standard faucet fitting and screw off when you are done. Normally I would not suggest a system like RO Buddie, because the cartridges only fit their systems and therefore you have to pay whatever price they set (larger units use universal media). However, considering how small your tank is, the media will last a long, long time.

 

[Jedi1199]

Your simply wrong here, mixing highly concentrated saltwater WILL cause precipitation of elements. Unless you are saying that the salt manufacturers and BRS are giving wrong information.

"If you add water to the dry salt or make a concentrated solution it causes crusty precipitation and creates an inconsistent mix."

BRS is a highly questionable source here as their goal is to sell you what makes them the most money.

Mixing a high concentration of salt to water will cause a level of precip, yes, but when diluted to a proper level, the precip, (assuming you get it all) will also dilute.

There is nothing wrong with mixing water this way for a startup.

 

[Jedi1199]

How do I know this? Because when I first set up my 180g tank, I realized that my salinity was quite low. I fixed this by making 5 gallons of water to about double the normal salinity should be. I used this highly concentrated water for my ATO bucket until I reached the desired level of 1.025 or 35 ppm

I did this 3 times to reach that goal.

 

[PotatoPig]

Hi there @PotatoPig and @Mr. Mojo Rising good stuff here

i'm evaluating this two little guys:

https://www.theaquariumsolution.com/product/3046/152

Amazon product

I really need them to be something I can save after using. I noticed a lot of people having a complete lab just from preparing salt-water; unfortunately can't afford to take up so much space and re-thinking my decision of going marine out of this

I live close to the sea in Dublin and I believe the water is very polluted in the coast so I don't think I'm going that way. I don't own a car also

Searching a ro system I can save after using; researching researching researching :)

Ideally a home water system would include the De-ionization stage, but I understand you’re only planning on FOWLR for now so something like you show should be OK.

Don’t worry too much about the folks with entire mixing stations - a lot of these are for much larger tanks with much more demanding occupants so have regular and hefty water change schedules where they’d otherwise be lugging 200+ liters around their house once a week, so have it all plumbed in and out of huge buckets with secondary systems for pre-purified water storage along with automatic top off systems hooked up. For a 30 gallon FOWLR this would be using a cannon to kill a mosquito.

For your 30 gallon system your average water change will be ~10 to 20L so can be managed with a single utility bucket, and a compact RODI you can just hook up to your bathtub/kitchen sink faucet and run the line into a bucket for an hour or so once a week should be plenty.

 

[Jedi1199]

Hi Team,

Newbie to reefing here

So, I'm getting my 30g tank these days and need to prepare to make it cycle

I realised yesterday that before that i need 30g of marine water though, quack!

I just don't have space enough at home to have a separate container that big (or several smaller) with a pump running for 24hs

But i also read mixing the salt with water in the tank is not the best idea due to the residue

I've spent some time thinking and reading but found all kind of opinions on this

Should I do it in batches? I have a 20 liters (~5ish g) bucket there that I can use but I'd take me 6 long days to do that (6 batches or more even)

And if I do so, should I start cycling the tank as soon as the first batch "arrives"

Also, is it absolutely madness thinking about doing a double-higher concentration batch and then mix it with freshwater?

( not the most brilliant chemistry student here )

Thanks all!

Mariano

Guys.. lets go back to the source here!!

There is NO mention whatsoever about what he plans to stock. He simply asked about STARTING a NEW TANK!!!

I think the more important question that needs to be answered here is this: "And if I do so, should I start cycling the tank as soon as the first batch "arrives""

The simple answer is yes and no.. haha.. Modern cycling science says that as soon as the water hits a surface, cycling begins.

Commercial cycling products will help speed the process, just as active dry yeast will speed the process of making bread. Even if you don't have access to that, you can still make bread or cycle a tank with the active bacteria that is airborne. This is fact and indisputable.

It will take longer for sure, but it WILL happen!!

So.. Should you start cycling the tank as soon as the first batch arrives? No, it's already happening. Yes, cause it's already happening!!

Now, that said. I despise commercial cycling products! A chunk of rock the size of a Cricket ball, if taken from an established tank, will give you everything you need to skip-cycle a tank.

Beyond that a filter sponge squeezed out in a bucket of saltwater will do the same thing... check with your local fish store for that. if they refuse you and try to sell you bottled stuff.. find another store.

 

[OliverH]

Just do use tap water.

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

Your simply wrong here, mixing highly concentrated saltwater WILL cause precipitation of elements. Unless you are saying that the salt manufacturers and BRS are giving wrong information.

"If you add water to the dry salt or make a concentrated solution it causes crusty precipitation and creates an inconsistent mix."

Then why did you ask??

 

[nano_medina]

Good lord.. the misinformation here is not only confusing but also astounding!!!

First!! Yes you can absolutely mix your salt in the tank if it is a new build with no livestock. What is a tank but a big butt bucket right?

There are a couple reasons why this is discouraged. Mainly when you go to add your substrate (sand) it is difficult if not impossible to not get cloudiness in the water. Plus it is difficult to get the sand to fall exactly where you want it.

Ok.. Second.. What are your plans for this system? Do you plan a mixed reef? Do you plan a fish only with live rock? These are VERY different systems and the level of caution is significantly different between the two.

A fish only system can be done with plain tap water just fine. I know at least a dozen examples, including my own tank, that ran just fine doing that.. This is also using the chemical soup that passes for tap water in San Jose California. I wouldn't drink it, but it worked for a fish only setup.

If you plan for ANY inverts.. shrimp, crabs, corals, ect, then plan for the need for copper free water. Copper is lethal to inverts of any kind... Yep if you get a breakout of Ich and use copper power to cure it, you will lose all of your inverts.

This is not an insurmountable obstacle!! Check out Amazon for a sink mounted RODI unit. They are inexpensive (as compared to other hardware needed for this hobby), small and can be used as needed and removed when not.

My personal setup, while not a sink mount, produced about 20 gallons of clean water in about 8 or 9 hours depending how old the prefilters are. A sink mount should be able to produce the 5 or 6 gallons you will need for top offs and water changes in roughly 2 or 3 hours (best guess so dont quote me on that).

Thanks for being so understanding. I'm practically doing as you suggest :)

 

[nano_medina]

RODI shouldn't be a deal breaker in my opinion.

One option for tap water would be to go with a fish only tank with less intense lighting. You will still have algae growth but it won't kill off expensive coral. When you do not have coral in the tank, it opens up a world of harsher algae control methods that you normally wouldn't be able to consider.

Another option is to look for bottled RO or distilled - these stores sell water in jugs that are used for water coolers. This water is going to only be RO with no de-ionization stage, but I have run a reef with softies and less intense lighting using bulk RO from a water store. My tank was around your size and I just lugged a couple jugs home a couple times a month for top off and water changes. Grocery stores here in North America also sell these jugs, sometimes they are RO and sometimes they are distilled.

My local grocery store has an exchange program where you pay about $.80/US gal Canadian to exchange these jugs, and the distilled water within hovers around 20 TDS (lower is better, RODI is 0).

The best option would be an at home, faucet connected RODI system. These are nice because you don't need to do any plumbing - they just screw on to a standard faucet fitting and screw off when you are done. Normally I would not suggest a system like RO Buddie, because the cartridges only fit their systems and therefore you have to pay whatever price they set (larger units use universal media). However, considering how small your tank is, the media will last a long, long time.

I understand better now thanks a lot. And thanks for being understanding

 

[nano_medina]

Just do use tap water.

Do you have experience with that?

 

[nano_medina]

Ideally a home water system would include the De-ionization stage, but I understand you’re only planning on FOWLR for now so something like you show should be OK.

Don’t worry too much about the folks with entire mixing stations - a lot of these are for much larger tanks with much more demanding occupants so have regular and hefty water change schedules where they’d otherwise be lugging 200+ liters around their house once a week, so have it all plumbed in and out of huge buckets with secondary systems for pre-purified water storage along with automatic top off systems hooked up. For a 30 gallon FOWLR this would be using a cannon to kill a mosquito.

For your 30 gallon system your average water change will be ~10 to 20L so can be managed with a single utility bucket, and a compact RODI you can just hook up to your bathtub/kitchen sink faucet and run the line into a bucket for an hour or so once a week should be plenty.

Loving this elaborated explanation. You're all so enthusiastic and passionate and willing to help that I'm even more motivated now

Yep, gonna get that portable ro system soon, I've been checking options

 

[nano_medina]

Guys.. lets go back to the source here!!

There is NO mention whatsoever about what he plans to stock. He simply asked about STARTING a NEW TANK!!!

I think the more important question that needs to be answered here is this: "And if I do so, should I start cycling the tank as soon as the first batch "arrives""

The simple answer is yes and no.. haha.. Modern cycling science says that as soon as the water hits a surface, cycling begins.

Commercial cycling products will help speed the process, just as active dry yeast will speed the process of making bread. Even if you don't have access to that, you can still make bread or cycle a tank with the active bacteria that is airborne. This is fact and indisputable.

It will take longer for sure, but it WILL happen!!

So.. Should you start cycling the tank as soon as the first batch arrives? No, it's already happening. Yes, cause it's already happening!!

Now, that said. I despise commercial cycling products! A chunk of rock the size of a Cricket ball, if taken from an established tank, will give you everything you need to skip-cycle a tank.

Beyond that a filter sponge squeezed out in a bucket of saltwater will do the same thing... check with your local fish store for that. if they refuse you and try to sell you bottled stuff.. find another store.

Hi there. I was meant to start the cycling process pouring that beneficial bacteria from commercial bottle

I'll receive two live rocks this weeks but thought the bottle stuff would've also helped so the bacteria can "eat" the ammonia and nitrites

The livestock I'm planning to have, for now, is a cleaning crew ( 5 snails, 5 hermits and 3 shrimps ), then get myself a couple of clownfish and finally a yellow gobi

In a lovely universe i can get pistol-shrimp and they become friends with the gobi and that would be a dream made true :)

Thanks for asking

 

[Jamie814]

Do you have experience with that?

I'm pretty sure they intended to say - Just don't use tap water.

 

[OliverH]

Do you have experience with that?

sry, I mean do not use tap water or any water that TDS under 10 or 5

 

[nano_medina]

Ideally a home water system would include the De-ionization stage, but I understand you’re only planning on FOWLR for now so something like you show should be OK.

Don’t worry too much about the folks with entire mixing stations - a lot of these are for much larger tanks with much more demanding occupants so have regular and hefty water change schedules where they’d otherwise be lugging 200+ liters around their house once a week, so have it all plumbed in and out of huge buckets with secondary systems for pre-purified water storage along with automatic top off systems hooked up. For a 30 gallon FOWLR this would be using a cannon to kill a mosquito.

For your 30 gallon system your average water change will be ~10 to 20L so can be managed with a single utility bucket, and a compact RODI you can just hook up to your bathtub/kitchen sink faucet and run the line into a bucket for an hour or so once a week should be plenty.

Hi there again, i live in the UK area for Amazon deliveries.

Any brand to recommend there if you're that are otherwise ignore :)

 

[nano_medina]

RODI shouldn't be a deal breaker in my opinion.

One option for tap water would be to go with a fish only tank with less intense lighting. You will still have algae growth but it won't kill off expensive coral. When you do not have coral in the tank, it opens up a world of harsher algae control methods that you normally wouldn't be able to consider.

Another option is to look for bottled RO or distilled - these stores sell water in jugs that are used for water coolers. This water is going to only be RO with no de-ionization stage, but I have run a reef with softies and less intense lighting using bulk RO from a water store. My tank was around your size and I just lugged a couple jugs home a couple times a month for top off and water changes. Grocery stores here in North America also sell these jugs, sometimes they are RO and sometimes they are distilled.

My local grocery store has an exchange program where you pay about $.80/US gal Canadian to exchange these jugs, and the distilled water within hovers around 20 TDS (lower is better, RODI is 0).

The best option would be an at home, faucet connected RODI system. These are nice because you don't need to do any plumbing - they just screw on to a standard faucet fitting and screw off when you are done. Normally I would not suggest a system like RO Buddie, because the cartridges only fit their systems and therefore you have to pay whatever price they set (larger units use universal media). However, considering how small your tank is, the media will last a long, long time.

Hi there, you seem to have a nice idea on values there

I already ordered the RODI system so after all the fuss here I got scared and decided to go the safest way

While that's still on transit I got my self a TDS meter. Just for the sake of testing it, I poured a glass of water just out of the tap and tested it: 87 TDS

I see people saying here that "before" RODI they enter a 200+ (sometimes 300+) TDS water, so I find it suspicious and kinda worried the meter is not doing the job

This is the one

This is Dublin City, a place very polluted, but not sure how much of that pollution actually makes it to the pipes that deliver my tap water so maybe that 87 TDS is real?

Searched in the website and googled about it without much answers that's why I'm asking, thanks

 

[Bohemian Waxwing]

Hi there, you seem to have a nice idea on values there

I already ordered the RODI system so after all the fuss here I got scared and decided to go the safest way

While that's still on transit I got my self a TDS meter. Just for the sake of testing it, I poured a glass of water just out of the tap and tested it: 87 TDS

I see people saying here that "before" RODI they enter a 200+ (sometimes 300+) TDS water, so I find it suspicious and kinda worried the meter is not doing the job

This is the one

This is Dublin City, a place very polluted, but not sure how much of that pollution actually makes it to the pipes that deliver my tap water so maybe that 87 TDS is real?

Searched in the website and googled about it without much answers that's why I'm asking, thanks

87 TDS would be very normal. I question how precise some of these meters are but I would not doubt it's in the 60-100 range, which is accurate enough for us.

 

[GiannisK]

Good lord.. the misinformation here is not only confusing but also astounding!!!

First!! Yes you can absolutely mix your salt in the tank if it is a new build with no livestock. What is a tank but a big butt bucket right?

There are a couple reasons why this is discouraged. Mainly when you go to add your substrate (sand) it is difficult if not impossible to not get cloudiness in the water. Plus it is difficult to get the sand to fall exactly where you want it.

Ok.. Second.. What are your plans for this system? Do you plan a mixed reef? Do you plan a fish only with live rock? These are VERY different systems and the level of caution is significantly different between the two.

A fish only system can be done with plain tap water just fine. I know at least a dozen examples, including my own tank, that ran just fine doing that.. This is also using the chemical soup that passes for tap water in San Jose California. I wouldn't drink it, but it worked for a fish only setup.

If you plan for ANY inverts.. shrimp, crabs, corals, ect, then plan for the need for copper free water. Copper is lethal to inverts of any kind... Yep if you get a breakout of Ich and use copper power to cure it, you will lose all of your inverts.

This is not an insurmountable obstacle!! Check out Amazon for a sink mounted RODI unit. They are inexpensive (as compared to other hardware needed for this hobby), small and can be used as needed and removed when not.

My personal setup, while not a sink mount, produced about 20 gallons of clean water in about 8 or 9 hours depending how old the prefilters are. A sink mount should be able to produce the 5 or 6 gallons you will need for top offs and water changes in roughly 2 or 3 hours (best guess so dont quote me on that).

Hello! I know it's been a few days but I'm in a similar situation as the OP and my living conditions make it impossible to have an RODI system installed - roommates, tiny space, renting, budget, apartment, etc. My question is how do you ensure proper pH? I'm setting up my first saltwater tank and I know it's supposed to be pretty alkaline, 8-8.4 or so. Is distilled or RODI water automatically at this pH, or is it taken care of by the rock and sand? Thanks!

 

[Jamie814]

Is distilled or RODI water automatically at this pH, or is it taken care of by the rock and sand?

pH is mostly dependent on the ambient co2 in the air around the water. A small space with lots of people or pets will depress tank pH because of higher co2 levels. Open windows will help prevent this. High pH additives will only temporally help but should not be used when setting up a tank as there is little to no alk consumption and they will raise alk too high.