secret to no algae on sand bed

[customcolor]

well if your tds is high after the ro unit you may be just feeding the hair algie instead of fighting it...higher the tds is the more algie food you give..you know what happens when you feed something! to fight it you need to starve it...you may have to back down on the water changes for a wile till you get a di unit....i had a forest of hair algie in a 55 i had for like 9 months till i got my ro/di and started doing manual removal of the hair..it took some time but it all paid off....my tap water tds is 425-500.



does any one have a portable tds meter for HELI to borrow so he can check his ro water for a bit?? i would but mine is an inline

 

[heliguy71]

i don't have a hair algae problem it is diatom and i use r/o water just wondering if a d/i add on will help also you can't just add up 120 +30 because the 100lbs of live rock changes water volume ans the sump is not filled to the top so it is really not 30 gallons of water in the sump thats why i said its around 120 gallons.

 

[heliguy71]

i can get a tds meter for 24.99 at marine depot if its accurate

 

[Fishcrazy06]

If your going to spend the money get one that is inline so all you have to do is slide the switch to see your incoming and outgoing TDS. Bulkreef has them for around 24 I think and it will be here in a day!

 

[nkelr]

not to argue but if thats what you estimate it at then 25% of that would be 30 gallons. i still think you are a little light on the water changes. and i still think 40 should be done just for the fun of doing water changes yaaaaaaaaaaaay. pluging your sand with the vacuum will also get all that dirty stuff that your complaining of off. then get the tds meter just to make sure it dont happen again. does this sound like what your problem is?????
Dealing with Cyanobacteria (Red Slime Algae) - Reef Health

 

[heliguy71]

right 30 gallons every two weeks which equals 60 gallons a month i am changing.i get your point i will do bigger water changes every two months more water more salt to buy.

 

[nkelr]

thats what this hobby is about MONEY MONEY MONEY WORK WORK WORK. then you get to sit there and look at it and its never good enough

 

[customcolor]

whats your bio load like?

 

[heliguy71]

1-yellow tang
1-strawberry basslet
1-gold head goby
2-bar gobies
1-tomato clown
1-fire fish goby
xenia,kenya tree,yuma,mushrooms,green palys
1-green serpent star
1-coral banded shrimp
2- anenomes
and around 100lbs of live rock

 

[jlinzmaier]

If your going to spend the money get one that is inline so all you have to do is slide the switch to see your incoming and outgoing TDS. Bulkreef has them for around 24 I think and it will be here in a day!

Just an FYI. Those inline TDS meters aren't extremely accurate. Hand held meters with calibration capabilities will be far more accurate. A com TDS 100 can also read down to one tenth (0.?) of a point while the inlines only read by whole points. This one tenth of a point can clearly indicate when DI cartridges become exhausted. When DI cartridges become exhausted the leach a lot of silicate and phosphate therefore it's quite important to monitor their filtration capability closely. I know you don't have a DI cartridge right now but it would be an important addition to your set up.

An inline is far better than not monitoring at all, but if your going to spend some money on a meter you may as well get something with more precision, accuracy, and flexibility (just my opinion though). Keep in mind that you'll need two RO line "T's" if you plan to use an inline.

Here is the COM 100 TDS meter I'd recommend.
HAND-HELD TDS METERS

Here are the J-gusset T's you'll need if you decide on an in-line meter.
JG 1/4 inch Union Tee - White

i don't have a hair algae problem it is diatom and i use r/o water

If your so confident that your problem is a diatom bloom then why didn't you say that in the first place. Once silicates are under control the diatoms will have nothing to feed off of. It's a much easier fix than battling many other nuisances that grow from excess nutrients. Silicate levels are often quite high in tap water and they are often not fully filtered out by only RO. A DI cartridge will pull out nearly everything that gets through the RO membrane..

This article may help.

http://advancedaquarist.com/issues/jan2003/feature.htm


Jeremy

 

[heliguy71]

well i am pretty sure it is diatom,i have had cyno before and it is nothing like it,dino's maybe but i don't think so

 

[heliguy71]

do i need to turn over my water 30x,is that number just for the return pump or all powerhead and filters combined.i would need a huge return pump for 30x per hour.i would need a pump that puts out 3000 to 4000gph.

 

[jlinzmaier]

well i am pretty sure it is diatom,i have had cyno before and it is nothing like it,dino's maybe but i don't think so

A few pics and many of us could probably easily tell you what your dealing with. It's much easier to solve the problem once you know exaclty what your dealing with. A good example is that if it is diatoms you should focus on lowering your silicates. If you have bryopsis then lowering N and P as well as raising mag with Tech M will help (just an example). If it's dino's then focusing on lowering N and P as well as a specific type of CUC will be in order (just another example).

Glad to see your looking into a skimmer upgrade. IMO, get one as large as you can afford (and can fit into the space you have available). Many people who strive for very low nutrient tanks often have skimmers rated for 2-4X their water volume. If you spend money on anything, don't skimp on the skimmer!

Jeremy

 

[Fishcrazy06]

Combination of powerhead, return pump, etc etc etc.....

 

[jlinzmaier]

do i need to turn over my water 30x,is that number just for the return pump or all powerhead and filters combined.i would need a huge return pump for 30x per hour.i would need a pump that puts out 3000 to 4000gph.

Flow rate through the sump/filtration zone should be determined by what you have there. For simplicity (just as an example) lets say you have a skimmer that runs 500 gph and that's the only bit of filtration in your sump. Then I'd run about 750-1000gph through your sump. That keeps waste water (overflow water) continually fed into the skimmer. If you have a fluidized filter for GFO as well as your skimmer then the flow in your sump should be increased to compensate for how much water you want available for both filters. You may want to run water through the skimmer then through the fluidized reactor so then you would only need to consider the amount of flow the skimmer requires. These are all just theoretical examples. The flow rate through your sump is entirely dependant on how you have it set up and what equipment you have there for filtration.

The 30X turnover is a good goal for water flow inside the tank. For example you have a 120 gal tank (I believe). A good goal would be for total flow to be 3600gph. Keep in mind that in the case of water flow, more is better (99% of the time). Also keep in mind that creativity with the flow pattern can make a world of difference in making the flow efficient for filtration. Directing flow so that it creates momentum and a nice flow pathway then the momentum will increase the total turnover rate. Fill your bathtub with water and run your arm through it in a circular pattern about a half a dozen times then take your arm out. What you'll see is the inertia of the water continuing in a circular pattern even after the mechanism of force is removed. If you can get your powerheads and pump returns to function in a pattern like that then you will achieve more momentum and a larger overall turnover rate. Again, I'll emphasize the importance of limiting dead spots. Using a turkey baster and blasting the rock with some flow will show you areas where detritus is settling and those areas need you to creatively get more flow there to keep that detritus from settling. Most of us have a few small areas where detritus will build up and that's OK as long as it's limited to a few small areas (those small areas can be siphoned and cleaned during water changes). When you have lots of detritus settling in many areas then it becomes a problem.

Jeremy

 

[jlinzmaier]

thats what this hobby is about MONEY MONEY MONEY WORK WORK WORK. then you get to sit there and look at it and its never good enough

This is a very rewarding hobby and doesn't take a lot of money or work to be rewarding. Efficiency, research, and automation of simple tasks can free up a lot of time and save a lot of money. People that don't do research before buying an animal or setting up a tank often dump boatloads of money into the hobby before they see any positive results. Many of us have learned the hard way (myself included) but that isn't how it has to be for everyone. That's why I'm always linking to articles and research when people ask questions. Many people don't realize that if they'd spend more time learning about the hobby before plunging in head first, then the net result is far fewer dead animals and much less money spent (that equates to far more enjoyment for the time and money spent). How many countless examples have we heard of people buying a CBB or moorish idol to put in a tank that has been set up for 3 weeks and then wonder why the animal dies. A little bit of research saves animals lives and saves reefers money.

Some of the most beautiful tanks I've seen are some of the most simple and gadget free. Look at Spikes (aquabucket) tank. The concept he used to manage that tank was as basic as could be and that tank was gorgeous. The secret to Spike being so successful with such little gadgetry and maintenance was his wealth of knowledge and research.

Jeremy

 

[heliguy71]

i will get pics in a day or two.i am trying aquabuckets idea about lights out for three days.then acintics on for a day then lights on and see what happens.

 

[jlinzmaier]

I would be spectacularly surprised if this works. It may kill off or make the currnet algae become dormant for a short period but I disagree with it's ability to have an impact on the root of the problem (excess nutrients). Can anyone please link me to any literature about this?? I know this is common advice given when battling algea but I've never heard of this solving any problems - it merely puts a temporary band-aid on the problem. Turning the lights out may kill off most algea as it will starve without the ability to use photosynthesis for energy, however, once those lights are turned back on the same nutrients and conditions are there to allow the same outbreak to occur. Many algea and other microfauna have the ability to become dormant when their environment changes in a negative manner and this allows them to sit and wait for the right circumstances to occur allowing them to proliferate once again.

Can you send me the link to that thread Eric??

EDIT** ADDITION
In fact, if you try to kill off large amounts of algea by means of photoinhibition it may actually make the problem worse. Once all that algae dies it will decompose releasing the nutrients back into the system to further fuel the growth of more nuisance algea. I know this is common advice that is shared among reefkeepers (keep in mind not all advice is good advice) but I just don't fully understand how it could help the root of the problem. Someone please fill me in on the logistics of this process.


Jeremy

 

[jlinzmaier]

The three day photoinhibition is a widely used concept and I don't want to sound too negative about it. I'm sure there's some aspect I'm missing. That practice is something I've never spent much time looking into, but the basic concepts I hear seem contradictory to really solving an algae problem. I'm not being sarcastic when asking for any info on the process, I'm really just interested in more detail behind how and why it might be successful.

Jeremy

 

[Fishcrazy06]

PM coming your way Jeremy!! Its A long one you will love it! Just up your Alley!! LOL