Should I test Trident Calibration solution prior to calibration?

[JCOLE]

I have had the Trident up and running for almost 6 months now and love it except for a couple of issues. One of the issues is that I run out of Reagent B and C quicker than Reagent A within the 2-month cycle(Submitted ticket today). For the most part, the test results are in line with my Hanna checkers at the beginning then seem to drift off towards the end of the cycle. I have tested the calibration solution twice before calibrating and my checkers show a big difference in results.

Can the reagents lose their calibration parameters over time? Should I test the solution with my Hanna Checkers and use those numbers when calibrating? I really am happy and confident with my Hanna Checkers. I wonder if I should calibrate the Trident once or twice a month with tested tank water to keep them in line with my Hanna Checkers.

What do you think?

 

[Miller535]

I have had the Trident up and running for almost 6 months now and love it except for a couple of issues. One of the issues is that I run out of Reagent B and C quicker than Reagent A within the 2-month cycle(Submitted ticket today). For the most part, the test results are in line with my Hanna checkers at the beginning then seem to drift off towards the end of the cycle. I have tested the calibration solution twice before calibrating and my checkers show a big difference in results.

Can the reagents lose their calibration parameters over time? Should I test the solution with my Hanna Checkers and use those numbers when calibrating? I really am happy and confident with my Hanna Checkers. I wonder if I should calibrate the Trident once or twice a month with tested tank water to keep them in line with my Hanna Checkers.

What do you think?

I do not have a trident, I'll just preface my statement with that. But if I had one (and I hope to eventually), I would not use it expecting it to be spot on. And as long as the drift was slow I would not care. I would still test my water manually weekly as I do now, as use the trident as a reference point to my alk, call, mag consumption.

 

[User1]

No, you do not need to test the calibration solution. It is already a reference and the values are on the label. It stays sealed up until you are ready to use it.

Neptune states, with good reason, that the calibration fluid is a one and done use. However, you can use the left over to check your manual testers. I do this with my Hanna ALK kit. Love it and it helps me see reference points.

 

[Miller535]

No, you do not need to test the calibration solution. It is already a reference and the values are on the label. It stays sealed up until you are ready to use it.

Neptune states, with good reason, that the calibration fluid is a one and done use. However, you can use the left over to check your manual testers. I do this with my Hanna ALK kit. Love it and it helps me see reference points.

My understanding was that Neptune says to pitch the left over solution because they degrade over time. I saw a video I believe with terrance and he said that's why they only sell it in 3 months worth or reagent, and not a larger amount.

 

[User1]

Correct, the calibration fluid is 1 and done. However, you can use it to check your manual kits within a couple hours or a day before you toss it. Many do it here.

Side note - we buy reagents in 6 month batches now.

 

[JCOLE]

No, you do not need to test the calibration solution. It is already a reference and the values are on the label. It stays sealed up until you are ready to use it.

Neptune states, with good reason, that the calibration fluid is a one and done use. However, you can use the left over to check your manual testers. I do this with my Hanna ALK kit. Love it and it helps me see reference points.

That is where the problem lies with me. How do I verify this if my Hanna Checkers are telling me something different from what the calibration label says? When I say different I am not referring to the +/- threshold. I am referring to a .50 difference in dKh. What is wrong here? Is it the calibration solution or the Hanna Checkers? If it is indeed the calibration solution then I am calibrating it wrong from the start.

What would be a good test is if all the Trident owners that have Hanna Checkers as well test their calibration solution to see if it is just intermittently with the testers or the norm.

 

[Miller535]

That is where the problem lies with me. How do I verify this if my Hanna Checkers are telling me something different from what the calibration label says? When I say different I am not referring to the +/- threshold. I am referring to a .50 difference in dKh. What is wrong here? Is it the calibration solution or the Hanna Checkers? If it is indeed the calibration solution then I am calibrating it wrong from the start.

What would be a good test is if all the Trident owners that have Hanna Checkers as well test their calibration solution to see if it is just intermittently with the testers or the norm.

I personally still wouldn't care about .5. Again it's a reference. A reference for you to watch and see if your tank is using less or more of the"big 3". Let's say you test and hanna says 9 and trident says 8.5. Then they should both keep saying the same and you know if the trident dips to maybe 7.5 that your tank is using more or theres a problem with your dosing or calcium REACTOR. Just like I don't trust my salinity probe on my apex to be as absolute accurate as my refractometer.

 

[ingchr1]

You could also check the Hanna with their reference as another data point.

I have the PPM Checker and the Hanna reference states that my Checker needs to read 100PPM +/- 10PPM. My checker read 92PPM. Now the certificate that came with the standard states that the standard itself is 100PPM +/- 10PPM. So was the standard 92PPM and my checker read exactly that or was it some other value (e.g. 100PPM) and my checker was within the Hanna stated accuracy, no way to know. Only that my Checker is within accuracy.

Test your tank water with the Trident and Hanna following Trident calibration. How do they compare? Check that delta periodically. Does the delta drift? If so, maybe the Trident reference is drifting. Does the Hanna stay consistent against its reference over this time? If so, this could possibly provide further support that the Trident reference is drifting.

The Hanna and Trident along with their respective reference solutions all have accuracies that could stack on each other, both instruments probably will not read the same. They could very well be off by 0.5dKH.

The accuracy of the Hanna Checker is:

Accuracy @ 25°C/77°F

±0.3 dKH ±5% of reading

 

[JCOLE]

I get that. However, it still doesn't add up. I called Neptune tech support yesterday and spoke with them. They couldn't give me an answer and left me more puzzled than before I called.

The Hanna and the Trident both TEST water. Beyond the fancy names, how it works, etc it all boils down to that. You pay the price to have your water tested somewhat "Accurate". I am not saying the Trident is not working properly. What I am saying is one of them could not be testing correctly. If my Trident reads 8.1 and the Hanna reads 8.5 multiple times then that is way outside the threshold both systems claim. One of them is either incorrect or they are both wrong.

During my talk with Neptune I did mention that it seems I might need to calibrate once a month instead of two months. I say this because after the initial calibration both the Trident and my Hanna checker tests within their threshold of each other. However. After a month they seem to drift apart like they are now. So, is it possible my Trident goes out of calibration quicker than it should? Maybe environment temp, etc could play a part of this? At $6 each for calibration solution, I wouldn't mind calibrating once a month.

The guy I spoke with yesterday didn't really have an answer for this. I am going to change all reagents and calibrate today and then test with my Hanna. If they are back inline then I will test again a month later. If they drift again then it sounds like calibration is the answer.

 

[ingchr1]

Edited my post above, thought was a little off but along the same lines.

 

[JCOLE]

That is more like it. Just tested Alk and Trident read 8.28 and Hanna read 8.3. That is good enough if you ask me.

If it happens again in a month then I might need to calibrate once a month.

 

[lakai]

My Trident reads 8.5 and while Hanna reads 9.1

 

[JCOLE]

My Trident reads 8.5 and while Hanna reads 9.1

When is the last time the Trident was calibrated?

 

[robbyg]

If my Trident reads 8.1 and the Hanna reads 8.5 multiple times then that is way outside the threshold both systems claim. One of them is either incorrect or they are both wrong.

If that was the case it means that they both have a high level of Precision but the question is are any of the units also Accurate. Given what I have seen from ICP testing I would not expect you to get a clear cut answer even if you sent a water sample out. I would say that as long as your tank is thriving I would recommend that you just keep using the Trident 8.1 reading as a benchmark and leave it at that. If not get it up to 8.5 on the Trident and that will be around 8.9 on the Hanna and see if that improves the tank.

 

[Daquan44]

Be careful when testing with the Hanna checker. I used the calibration solution to verify my Hanna checker, and it was a little off. I used a different vial, and that one was spot on with my trident, and what was on the calibration bottle. I guess I didn't clean that one vial correctly at some point and it gives an inaccurate reading. It was only off by .6 though.

 

[lakai]

When is the last time the Trident was calibrated?

Yesterday

 

[Ldc3000]

I agree that it should be calibrated at least once a month. I have found that after a couple weeks my calcium is off. Once I go back and recalibrate my calcium is really off Sometimes by as much as 70 points. It always reads high, so I cut off the DOS, so it’s getting no calcium. Each two month supply should come with 2 calibration solutions , so you can recalibrate when you change reagent A.

 

[robbyg]

I agree that it should be calibrated at least once a month. I have found that after a couple weeks my calcium is off. Once I go back and recalibrate my calcium is really off Sometimes by as much as 70 points. It always reads high, so I cut off the DOS, so it’s getting no calcium. Each two month supply should come with 2 calibration solutions , so you can recalibrate when you change reagent A.

There is enough solution in the bottle for two calibrations. The problem is that there is not enough to test them for drift with a Hanna etc and then calibrate that second time. We need to do some community testing and see just how accurate the remaining fluid is after being open half used and then reopened 30 days later.

 

[JCOLE]

There is enough solution in the bottle for two calibrations. The problem is that there is not enough to test them for drift with a Hanna etc and then calibrate that second time. We need to do some community testing and see just how accurate the remaining fluid is after being open half used and then reopened 30 days later.

Not with mine. I calibrate then I run a manual combined test afterwards of the calibration solution to see if I get around the same numbers as the calibration solution. After I do these steps then I usually have a quarter of the liquid left.
They also say not to use the calibration solution after it has been compromised and after 8 hours of opening.

They sell the calibration solution for around $5. Honestly, I would pay a little more to include it or maybe just start ordering calibration solution with the reagent kits.

I am with you though in testing the cal solution. I will be changing reagents in a couple days and will be calibrating. I will check the solution with my Hanna's and then test again a month later.

 

[ca1ore]

I do agree, BTW, that each reagent set would ideally come with two bottles of calibration solution. I do not see any point in testing it, however, unless you have access to laboratory grade reagents and equipment. Otherwise, you are simply comparing one hobby grade testing system with another ..... which seems singularly pointless to me. Fortunately absolute accuracy isn’t necessary with a reef tank and there are plenty of common sense ways to judge whether readings are off. For example, my system consumes alkalinity and calcium pretty consistently over time. If I see significant changes in controlled dosing amounts, I know something has changed. Perhaps the CaRx has gone out of tune or perhaps the trident readings have drifted.