Sick Yellow Tang

[pnchowdary]

My display tank is currently fallow, as I am treating all the fish for ich/flukes. I have finished the QT of my fish and cycled a temporary 30 gallon tank and transferred all my fish to the tank until the DT fallow period is over. I have seachem badge on the cycled tank and tested the water when I transferred my fish to it. However, I have been keeping any eye on ammonia using seachem badge. I assumed everything was fine, until I noticed my yellow tang started getting a red coloration on her mouth and stopped eating. I changed 70% of the water as a weekly routine and continued noticing that the yellow tang was not eating. Therefore, I checked my parameters and found 0 ammonia, but 0.25 PPM of Nitrite. If it was 0.25 PPM after 70% water change, the Nitrite level must have been pretty high before I did the water change. Long story short, the same day one of my chromis died and I added some bioballs from a clean tank, added fritz bacteria and monitored the Nitrite levels. I also added prime to make the nitrite less toxic. Next day I did another 70% water change and cut down on my heavy feeding, the nitrite level has been at 0 since then. However, the yellow tang has not started eating yet. It still has the red coloration on its mouth and breathing heavily. I just moved it a separate 10 gallon tank, so that I can feed it without competition and probably treat it with medicine. It is still not eating. I have the following medications at my disposal metroplex, kanaplex, maracyn 2 at my disposal (anti-bacterial). I have posted a short video of the yellow tang. Rest of all the other fish seem to be healthy and eating well. I dont want it to die, please let me know what I can do at this point of time. @Jay Hemdal - Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

 

[ISpeakForTheSeas]

What are your other parameters (Cal, Alk, Mag, etc.), how old is your tank, and what all is new/recently changed or added for your tank? Any symptoms other than the red mouth and not eating (i.e. pacing, gasping at the surface, flashing, open sores, etc.)? How did your chromis die - did it show any symptoms of anything?

#fishmedic

 

[pnchowdary]

What are your other parameters (Cal, Alk, Mag, etc.), how old is your tank, and what all is new/recently changed or added for your tank? Any symptoms other than the red mouth and not eating (i.e. pacing, gasping at the surface, flashing, open sores, etc.)? How did your chromis die - did it show any symptoms of anything?

#fishmedic

This tank was setup a couple of months ago with the purpose of temporarily housing the fish until the fallow period of my DT is over. The fish were added after the fish less cycle was completed. It doesn’t have any corals. There are no other symptoms. It’s just a little dull and not active, not eating. It also looks like it is breathing rapidly. I am guessing the chromis died due to the high nitrite levels. Please let me know what you think.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

My display tank is currently fallow, as I am treating all the fish for ich/flukes. I have finished the QT of my fish and cycled a temporary 30 gallon tank and transferred all my fish to the tank until the DT fallow period is over. I have seachem badge on the cycled tank and tested the water when I transferred my fish to it. However, I have been keeping any eye on ammonia using seachem badge. I assumed everything was fine, until I noticed my yellow tang started getting a red coloration on her mouth and stopped eating. I changed 70% of the water as a weekly routine and continued noticing that the yellow tang was not eating. Therefore, I checked my parameters and found 0 ammonia, but 0.25 PPM of Nitrite. If it was 0.25 PPM after 70% water change, the Nitrite level must have been pretty high before I did the water change. Long story short, the same day one of my chromis died and I added some bioballs from a clean tank, added fritz bacteria and monitored the Nitrite levels. I also added prime to make the nitrite less toxic. Next day I did another 70% water change and cut down on my heavy feeding, the nitrite level has been at 0 since then. However, the yellow tang has not started eating yet. It still has the red coloration on its mouth and breathing heavily. I just moved it a separate 10 gallon tank, so that I can feed it without competition and probably treat it with medicine. It is still not eating. I have the following medications at my disposal metroplex, kanaplex, maracyn 2 at my disposal (anti-bacterial). I have posted a short video of the yellow tang. Rest of all the other fish seem to be healthy and eating well. I dont want it to die, please let me know what I can do at this point of time. @Jay Hemdal - Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

So, despite what you'll hear, nitrite is actually non-toxic to marine fish (deadly to FW though). Ammonia is the real killer for marine fish. I've had cases where the ammonia badges fail to detect high ammonia levels - do you have another way to double check that?

How did you quarantine this fish? I need to try and rule out some disease that could have slipped through the process.

The rapid breathing combined with the redness is worrisome. If it were just redness, I see that in yellow tangs a lot when they are stressed, I call it "erythema". The rapid breathing is not a symptom of that though....

Jay

 

[ISpeakForTheSeas]

If I had to guess, I’d say check for flukes (most people do a freshwater dip to check), especially if it has red gills. If it’s not flukes, then hopefully someone more experienced will chime in and help you figure this out.

I will say, regardless, that I doubt it’s because of Nitrite, even if it was substantially higher than 0.25ppm. Randy Holmes-Farley has written quite a bit about Nitrites in reef tanks, but here are some relevant quotes:

No. Nitrite at 1 ppm is not toxic.

In a not fully cycled system, nitrite might possible get high enough to be an issue and I wouldn't put in fish at 10+ ppm nitrite. The lowest tox level I've seen reported for rapid toxicity of nitrite to fish >100 ppm. The 10 ppm gives a protective buffer.

Nitrite and the Reef Aquarium by Randy Holmes-Farley - Reefkeeping.com

 

[pnchowdary]

So, despite what you'll hear, nitrite is actually non-toxic to marine fish (deadly to FW though). Ammonia is the real killer for marine fish. I've had cases where the ammonia badges fail to detect high ammonia levels - do you have another way to double check that?

How did you quarantine this fish? I need to try and rule out some disease that could have slipped through the process.

The rapid breathing combined with the redness is worrisome. If it were just redness, I see that in yellow tangs a lot when they are stressed, I call it "erythema". The rapid breathing is not a symptom of that though....

Jay

I double checked the ammonia reading using api test kit. That also indicated that it was 0, after the first 70% water change. I didn’t test for ammonia before the water change.

I did the TTM method with Prazi dose for 24 hrs on transfer 2 and 4. Also I treated them with Maracyn two for 5 days as per the instructions, as one of the fish had fin tail and rot (not this tang). Please let me know if I messed up something.

I did notice that the chromis that died had damaged fins and it was floating when I found it. I also noticed that the chromis were near the surface all the time, Chromis are usually near the surface, so I didn’t give much importance to it. I am mentioning these things I have noticed, so that it might provide clue to what’s happening to the tang. All the other fish in this tank, including two more tangs are doing good and healthy. Please help.

 

[pnchowdary]

If I had to guess, I’d say check for flukes (most people do a freshwater dip to check), especially if it has red gills. If it’s not flukes, then hopefully someone more experienced will chime in and help you figure this out.

I will say, regardless, that I doubt it’s because of Nitrite, even if it was substantially higher than 0.25ppm. Randy Holmes-Farley has written quite a bit about Nitrites in reef tanks, but here are some relevant quotes:

Thank you very much for ruling out the high levels of Nitrite as the problem.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I double checked the ammonia reading using api test kit. That also indicated that it was 0, after the first 70% water change. I didn’t test for ammonia before the water change.

I did the TTM method with Prazi dose for 24 hrs on transfer 2 and 4. Also I treated them with Maracyn two for 5 days as per the instructions, as one of the fish had fin tail and rot (not this tang). Please let me know if I messed up something.

I did notice that the chromis that died had damaged fins and it was floating when I found it. I also noticed that the chromis were near the surface all the time, Chromis are usually near the surface, so I didn’t give much importance to it. I am mentioning these things I have noticed, so that it might provide clue to what’s happening to the tang. All the other fish in this tank, including two more tangs are doing good and healthy. Please help.

The rapid breathing could be a gill disease, since the water quality issues seems to be ruled out.

My worry is that TTM does not work for Amyloodinium, velvet. People have modified the process to include peroxide and that works a little better, but still, copper is the treatment of choice for velvet.

Jay

 

[pnchowdary]

The rapid breathing could be a gill disease, since the water quality issues seems to be ruled out.

My worry is that TTM does not work for Amyloodinium, velvet. People have modified the process to include peroxide and that works a little better, but still, copper is the treatment of choice for velvet.

Jay

Considering the weak state of the fish and not eating. It might not make it through the copper treatment. I heard that velvet kills fish very fast. It’s the third day since I have noticed it not eating. So, I was guessing that it might not be velvet. Given the condition of the fish, I was leaning towards either of these treatment options.

1) 30 mins H2o2 bath and followed by TTM treatment for velvet instructions listed on your site.

2) Hybrid TTM method for all parasites. https://humble.fish/community/index.php?threads/hybrid-ttm-to-treat-all-parasites.87/

@Jay Hemdal Please confirm which option you would recommend so that I can start the treatment immediately.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Considering the weak state of the fish and not eating. It might not make it through the copper treatment. I heard that velvet kills fish very fast. It’s the third day since I have noticed it not eating. So, I was guessing that it might not be velvet. Given the condition of the fish, I was leaning towards either of these treatment options.

1) 30 mins H2o2 bath and followed by TTM treatment for velvet instructions listed on your site.

2) Hybrid TTM method for all parasites. https://humble.fish/community/index.php?threads/hybrid-ttm-to-treat-all-parasites.87/

@Jay Hemdal Please confirm which option you would recommend so that I can start the treatment immediately.

If you dose the peroxide properly and move it to a fresh tank, that might work.
Here is the thing though: ALL of these peroxide treatments are based on one paper done in Hawaii on thread fin. It is dangerous to extrapolate widespread treatments based on a single case like that.
Copper is still the best choice for velvet (if that is what this is). More fish are lost due to delays in treatment than from copper itself. Any anti protozoal drug is going to be stressful to the fish I’m afraid.
Then, I’m not positive this is velvet….it is a gill disease, but there are other gill diseases this could be.
Jay

 

[4davegill]

I'll just add that when the fish is in distress like that, as i have had with purple and yellow tangs, methylene blue dip (30 min) provided a lot of relief. I've read it detoxifies the fish and it's even said to reverse damage from cyanide.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I'll just add that when the fish is in distress like that, as i have had with purple and yellow tangs, methylene blue dip (30 min) provided a lot of relief. I've read it detoxifies the fish and it's even said to reverse damage from cyanide.

The concentration of methylene blue is important - 2 ppm is a common level.
Regarding MB and cyanide, MB can act to detoxify cyanide at the time of exposure, but t doesn’t do anything to help a cyanide damaged fish after the cyanide has decomposed.
Jay

 

[4davegill]

The concentration of methylene blue is important - 2 ppm is a common level.
Regarding MB and cyanide, MB can act to detoxify cyanide at the time of exposure, but t doesn’t do anything to help a cyanide damaged fish after the cyanide has decomposed.
Jay

That makes sense. I use 1/2 teaspoon per 5 gallon bucket of oxygenated water matching salinity, temp and ph.

 

[pnchowdary]

The yellow tang started eating pellets a little this morning and looks better. It also ate the food this evening. Therefore I have not started any treatments. I am keeping a close eye on it. I will keep you guys updated. Thank you very much for all your help so far.

 

[frizzayyyyreef]

The yellow tang started eating pellets a little this morning and looks better. It also ate the food this evening. Therefore I have not started any treatments. I am keeping a close eye on it. I will keep you guys updated. Thank you very much for all your help so far.

As long as she’s eating again…Keep her eating as much as possible imo Get tdo pellets! They’re magic

 

[pnchowdary]

I wanted to provide an update on the yellow tang. I did the 30 mins dip of methylene blue as per the instructions on humble fish. It immediately recovered and was almost back to normal. After another day it was normal and I moved it to the tank with the other fish and he is happy. Thanks for all you help in getting my yellow tang back to its normal self. Appreciate all your help.

 

[4davegill]

I wanted to provide an update on the yellow tang. I did the 30 mins dip of methylene blue as per the instructions on humble fish. It immediately recovered and was almost back to normal. After another day it was normal and I moved it to the tank with the other fish and he is happy. Thanks for all you help in getting my yellow tang back to its normal self. Appreciate all your help.

That's awesome! You did a great job caring for your fish. Methylene blue is my first go to if anything seems off about a fish. After that, i try to figure out what else might be going on. It is so mild and seems almost to rebalance.
I'm thrilled for you!