Silicate Dosing Supplements?

[bdare]

Hello all,

I'm battling a dino outbreak. Some have said that dosing silicate to out compete the dinos is a valid method. As such, I've been trying to find a reef safe silicate solution to dose. I just purchased Brightwell Aquatics SpongExcel.

SpongExcel - Silica Solution

Overview Ionic silica solution for enhancing growth rates of sponges and gastropods. 1 drop per gallon of water increases ionic silica concentration by ~0.20 ppm. May be employed in silica-limited systems stocked with sponges to improve water quality by increasing the rate of natural latent...

www.bulkreefsupply.com

The main ingredient is listed as Sodium metasilicate. I did a search on Amazon and found 2 lbs of Sodium Metasilicate-Pentahydrate. Says food grade. Would this work??
Amazon product

Thanks,
Ben

 

[joseserrano]

the brightwell stuf is strong, I don't think you will use up the whole bottle with your experiment.

 

[bdare]

the brightwell stuf is strong, I don't think you will use up the whole bottle with your experiment.

Good to know! Also, the tank is 250 gallons of total volume just in case that makes a difference.

 

[taricha]

That's a big tank. I think you'll go through brightwell in less time, but do it once or twice with the guidance on the brightwell bottle, then you can use other bulk products once you get a feel for how your system uses Si.

 

[Semper.Reefing]

How did this product work out for you in your style on Dino’s? I’m on my last limb with Dino’s in my tank and looking to try this method out.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

This is what I recommend:

Technical Grade Sodium Silicate Solution or Water Glass, 16oz for sale. Buy from The Science Company

Sodium silicate (water glass) is a clear, colorless liquid with a viscosity of 42 degrees Baume. Used in soaps, detergents, adhesives and in waterproofing.

www.sciencecompany.com

 

[Semper.Reefing]

This is what I recommend:

Technical Grade Sodium Silicate Solution or Water Glass, 16oz for sale. Buy from The Science Company

Sodium silicate (water glass) is a clear, colorless liquid with a viscosity of 42 degrees Baume. Used in soaps, detergents, adhesives and in waterproofing.

www.sciencecompany.com

I read some older posts of you explaining how to calculate the dosage. Do you have an article that breaks it down further? I dont want to ask questions that have already been answered. I am going to go with this product you recommended.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I read some older posts of you explaining how to calculate the dosage. Do you have an article that breaks it down further? I dont want to ask questions that have already been answered. I am going to go with this product you recommended.

Sure:
Silica In Reef Aquariums

Silica In Reef Aquariums

Why would I recommend dosing silica? Largely because creatures in our tanks use it, the concentrations in our tanks (at least in mine) are below natural levels, and the sponges, mollusks, and diatoms may not be getting enough to thrive.

reefs.com

I’d suggest dosing sodium silicate solution, as it is a readily soluble form of silica. It is very inexpensive. I initially used a high quality laboratory grade, but I’d expect the bulk grades sold to the world at large to be good enough (and I use it now). Remember, you aren’t dosing much, and the solutions available are very concentrated. You may find “water glass’ in certain stores because it is used by consumers for things like preserving eggs. Buying chemicals can be problematic for many people, however, and this hobby chemistry store sells to individuals. Ten dollars (+ shipping) gets you enough to last 150 years of dosing with a 100-gallon tank, so cost is not an issue. I just ordered some from them myself and it came broken open, unfortunately. Some of you may have gotten Christmas presents that had ¾ of a gallon of sodium silicate solution coating them as they passed my package in the mail. Nevertheless, I
still have enough for several years!).

Many “water glass” or sodium silicate solutions are sold with the concentration indicated by “° Baume”. Degrees Baume is a measure of the specific gravity, and values in the 40’s are typical of these concentrated solutions. A concentration of 41° Baume equates to 29% SiO2 by weight. Note that the density is high (1.38 g/mL for 41° Baume), so volume measurements should take this into account. Maybe eventually, some of the hobby supplement manufacturers will provide a supplement.

Safety note: Sodium Silicate solution is very basic (high pH). In fact, the pH can be substantially higher than limewater, so it is very corrosive to tissue and to metal devices. Be careful to not spill it on yourself, wear some eye protection, and if you spill it on something metal, wash it. In all cases, extensive washing with water is recommended in case of spills or exposure.

Based on my dosing experience, aquarists are probably safe dosing the equivalent of 1 ppm SiO2 once every 1-2 weeks. That is based on the fact that my tank used that much in less than 4 days without having any sort of “bad” reaction. Of course, there’s nothing wrong with starting at a tenth of that and ramping up. And, of course, if you do get too much in the way of diatoms, just back off on the dosing. I presume that all that I added to my tank went into various organisms that us it (sponges, diatoms, etc), but perhaps I have more sponges than other aquarists, and diatoms consequently may be more of a concern in some tanks than in mine.

I’d also advise occasionally checking the soluble silica concentration in the water, in case the demand in your tank is substantially less than mine. If the concentration started to rise above 3 ppm SiO2, even in the absence of diatoms, I’d probably reduce the dose rate because that is close to the maximum concentration that surface seawater ever attains.

Here’s how to determine dosing amounts. I’ll assume that you want 1 ppm SiO2 dosing, and you can scale from there. If the concentration of the supplement is 29% silica by weight (41° Baume), then it is 290,000 ppm silica. To get to 1 ppm silica, you then need to dilute by 290,000 fold. If you add 1.3 grams of this supplement (0.96 mL) to a tank with 100 gallons (378,500 mL), then the final concentration will be about 1 ppm SiO2. I’d disperse the concentrated silicate solution into some fresh water before adding it to the tank, and then add it to a high flow area. Because the pH is high, you likely will see some cloudiness that is mostly magnesium hydroxide. The magnesium hydroxide will dissolve without a problem, but to be safe, add the supplement in a high flow area.

 

[Semper.Reefing]

Sure:
Silica In Reef Aquariums

Silica In Reef Aquariums

Why would I recommend dosing silica? Largely because creatures in our tanks use it, the concentrations in our tanks (at least in mine) are below natural levels, and the sponges, mollusks, and diatoms may not be getting enough to thrive.

reefs.com

I’d suggest dosing sodium silicate solution, as it is a readily soluble form of silica. It is very inexpensive. I initially used a high quality laboratory grade, but I’d expect the bulk grades sold to the world at large to be good enough (and I use it now). Remember, you aren’t dosing much, and the solutions available are very concentrated. You may find “water glass’ in certain stores because it is used by consumers for things like preserving eggs. Buying chemicals can be problematic for many people, however, and this hobby chemistry store sells to individuals. Ten dollars (+ shipping) gets you enough to last 150 years of dosing with a 100-gallon tank, so cost is not an issue. I just ordered some from them myself and it came broken open, unfortunately. Some of you may have gotten Christmas presents that had ¾ of a gallon of sodium silicate solution coating them as they passed my package in the mail. Nevertheless, I
still have enough for several years!).

Many “water glass” or sodium silicate solutions are sold with the concentration indicated by “° Baume”. Degrees Baume is a measure of the specific gravity, and values in the 40’s are typical of these concentrated solutions. A concentration of 41° Baume equates to 29% SiO2 by weight. Note that the density is high (1.38 g/mL for 41° Baume), so volume measurements should take this into account. Maybe eventually, some of the hobby supplement manufacturers will provide a supplement.

Safety note: Sodium Silicate solution is very basic (high pH). In fact, the pH can be substantially higher than limewater, so it is very corrosive to tissue and to metal devices. Be careful to not spill it on yourself, wear some eye protection, and if you spill it on something metal, wash it. In all cases, extensive washing with water is recommended in case of spills or exposure.

Based on my dosing experience, aquarists are probably safe dosing the equivalent of 1 ppm SiO2 once every 1-2 weeks. That is based on the fact that my tank used that much in less than 4 days without having any sort of “bad” reaction. Of course, there’s nothing wrong with starting at a tenth of that and ramping up. And, of course, if you do get too much in the way of diatoms, just back off on the dosing. I presume that all that I added to my tank went into various organisms that us it (sponges, diatoms, etc), but perhaps I have more sponges than other aquarists, and diatoms consequently may be more of a concern in some tanks than in mine.

I’d also advise occasionally checking the soluble silica concentration in the water, in case the demand in your tank is substantially less than mine. If the concentration started to rise above 3 ppm SiO2, even in the absence of diatoms, I’d probably reduce the dose rate because that is close to the maximum concentration that surface seawater ever attains.

Here’s how to determine dosing amounts. I’ll assume that you want 1 ppm SiO2 dosing, and you can scale from there. If the concentration of the supplement is 29% silica by weight (41° Baume), then it is 290,000 ppm silica. To get to 1 ppm silica, you then need to dilute by 290,000 fold. If you add 1.3 grams of this supplement (0.96 mL) to a tank with 100 gallons (378,500 mL), then the final concentration will be about 1 ppm SiO2. I’d disperse the concentrated silicate solution into some fresh water before adding it to the tank, and then add it to a high flow area. Because the pH is high, you likely will see some cloudiness that is mostly magnesium hydroxide. The magnesium hydroxide will dissolve without a problem, but to be safe, add the supplement in a high flow area.

Thank you! Interesting article. I was thinking while reading about your experiment with play sand, would putting a couple pounds in a container in the sump provide a slow release of silicate? Probably would last too terribly long and better off dosing sodium silicate anyways.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Thank you! Interesting article. I was thinking while reading about your experiment with play sand, would putting a couple pounds in a container in the sump provide a slow release of silicate? Probably would last too terribly long and better off dosing sodium silicate anyways.

I expect it is a burst release that winds down, but I'm not sure how long that will take.

 

[Rishov]

Sure:
Silica In Reef Aquariums

Silica In Reef Aquariums

Why would I recommend dosing silica? Largely because creatures in our tanks use it, the concentrations in our tanks (at least in mine) are below natural levels, and the sponges, mollusks, and diatoms may not be getting enough to thrive.

reefs.com

I’d suggest dosing sodium silicate solution, as it is a readily soluble form of silica. It is very inexpensive. I initially used a high quality laboratory grade, but I’d expect the bulk grades sold to the world at large to be good enough (and I use it now). Remember, you aren’t dosing much, and the solutions available are very concentrated. You may find “water glass’ in certain stores because it is used by consumers for things like preserving eggs. Buying chemicals can be problematic for many people, however, and this hobby chemistry store sells to individuals. Ten dollars (+ shipping) gets you enough to last 150 years of dosing with a 100-gallon tank, so cost is not an issue. I just ordered some from them myself and it came broken open, unfortunately. Some of you may have gotten Christmas presents that had ¾ of a gallon of sodium silicate solution coating them as they passed my package in the mail. Nevertheless, I
still have enough for several years!).

Many “water glass” or sodium silicate solutions are sold with the concentration indicated by “° Baume”. Degrees Baume is a measure of the specific gravity, and values in the 40’s are typical of these concentrated solutions. A concentration of 41° Baume equates to 29% SiO2 by weight. Note that the density is high (1.38 g/mL for 41° Baume), so volume measurements should take this into account. Maybe eventually, some of the hobby supplement manufacturers will provide a supplement.

Safety note: Sodium Silicate solution is very basic (high pH). In fact, the pH can be substantially higher than limewater, so it is very corrosive to tissue and to metal devices. Be careful to not spill it on yourself, wear some eye protection, and if you spill it on something metal, wash it. In all cases, extensive washing with water is recommended in case of spills or exposure.

Based on my dosing experience, aquarists are probably safe dosing the equivalent of 1 ppm SiO2 once every 1-2 weeks. That is based on the fact that my tank used that much in less than 4 days without having any sort of “bad” reaction. Of course, there’s nothing wrong with starting at a tenth of that and ramping up. And, of course, if you do get too much in the way of diatoms, just back off on the dosing. I presume that all that I added to my tank went into various organisms that us it (sponges, diatoms, etc), but perhaps I have more sponges than other aquarists, and diatoms consequently may be more of a concern in some tanks than in mine.

I’d also advise occasionally checking the soluble silica concentration in the water, in case the demand in your tank is substantially less than mine. If the concentration started to rise above 3 ppm SiO2, even in the absence of diatoms, I’d probably reduce the dose rate because that is close to the maximum concentration that surface seawater ever attains.

Here’s how to determine dosing amounts. I’ll assume that you want 1 ppm SiO2 dosing, and you can scale from there. If the concentration of the supplement is 29% silica by weight (41° Baume), then it is 290,000 ppm silica. To get to 1 ppm silica, you then need to dilute by 290,000 fold. If you add 1.3 grams of this supplement (0.96 mL) to a tank with 100 gallons (378,500 mL), then the final concentration will be about 1 ppm SiO2. I’d disperse the concentrated silicate solution into some fresh water before adding it to the tank, and then add it to a high flow area. Because the pH is high, you likely will see some cloudiness that is mostly magnesium hydroxide. The magnesium hydroxide will dissolve without a problem, but to be safe, add the supplement in a high flow area.

I have a 30gallons nano and have sodium silicate in powdered form so how much silicate I should add in how much rodi to gain 1ppm of concentration and what will be the dosing schedule look like ?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Do you have a link to a description of the material?

 

[Rishov]

Do you have a link to a description of the

Do you have a link to a description of the material?

Sodium Silicate Powder 100 grams Amazon product.

 

[Rishov]

Do you have a link to a description of the material?

In case you are unable to open the link ,here’s some screen shots of the product I just bought ,I’m still open to any recommendations you provide and also I want to know the dosing style of silicates ,

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I cannot tell exactly what form that is, but I'd try to dissolve it 50% by weight in water (1 part RO/DI, 1 part powder by weight).

Then dose it according to the direction my in amrticle above:

How much and what to dose?​

I’d suggest dosing sodium silicate solution, as it is a readily soluble form of silica. It is very inexpensive. I initially used a high quality laboratory grade, but I’d expect the bulk grades sold to the world at large to be good enough (and I use it now). Remember, you aren’t dosing much, and the solutions available are very concentrated. You may find “water glass’ in certain stores because it is used by consumers for things like preserving eggs. Buying chemicals can be problematic for many people, however, and this hobby chemistry store 43 sells to individuals. Ten dollars (+ shipping) gets you enough to last 150 years of dosing with a 100-gallon tank, so cost is not an issue. I just ordered some from them myself and it came broken open, unfortunately. Some of you may have gotten Christmas presents that had ¾ of a gallon of sodium silicate solution coating them as they passed my package in the mail. Nevertheless, I
still have enough for several years!).

Many “water glass” or sodium silicate solutions are sold with the concentration indicated by “° Baume”. Degrees Baume is a measure of the specific gravity, and values in the 40’s are typical of these concentrated solutions.44 A concentration of 41° Baume equates to 29% SiO2 by weight. Note that the density is high (1.38 g/mL for 41° Baume), so volume measurements should take this into account. Maybe eventually, some of the hobby supplement manufacturers will provide a supplement.

Safety note: Sodium Silicate solution is very basic (high pH). In fact, the pH can be substantially higher than limewater, so it is very corrosive to tissue and to metal devices. Be careful to not spill it on yourself, wear some eye protection, and if you spill it on something metal, wash it. In all cases, extensive washing with water is recommended in case of spills or exposure.

Based on my dosing experience, aquarists are probably safe dosing the equivalent of 17 uM (1 ppm SiO2) once every 1-2 weeks. That is based on the fact that my tank used that much in less than 4 days without having any sort of “bad” reaction. Of course, there’s nothing wrong with starting at a tenth of that and ramping up. And, of course, if you do get too much in the way of diatoms, just back off on the dosing. I presume that all that I added to my tank went into various organisms that us it (sponges, diatoms, etc), but perhaps I have more sponges than other aquarists, and diatoms consequently may be more of a concern in some tanks than in mine.

I’d also advise occasionally checking the soluble silica concentration in the water, in case the demand in your tank is substantially less than mine. If the concentration started to rise above 50 mM (3 ppm SiO2), even in the absence of diatoms, I’d probably reduce the dose rate because that is close to the maximum concentration that surface seawater ever attains.

Here’s how to determine dosing amounts. I’ll assume that you want 17 uM (1 ppm SiO2) dosing, and you can scale from there. If the concentration of the supplement is 29% silica by weight (41° Baume), then it is 290,000 ppm silica. To get to 1 ppm silica, you then need to dilute by 290,000 fold. If you add 1.3 grams of this supplement (0.96 mL) to a tank with 100 gallons (378,500 mL), then the final concentration will be about 17 uM (1 ppm SiO2). I’d disperse the concentrated silicate solution into some fresh water before adding it to the tank, and then add it to a high flow area. Because the pH is high, you likely will see some cloudiness that is mostly magnesium hydroxide. The magnesium hydroxide will dissolve without a problem, but to be safe, add the supplement in a high flow area.

 

[Rishov]

I cannot tell exactly what form that is, but I'd try to dissolve it 50% by weight in water (1 part RO/DI, 1 part powder by weight).

Then dose it according to the direction my in amrticle above:

How much and what to dose?​

I’d suggest dosing sodium silicate solution, as it is a readily soluble form of silica. It is very inexpensive. I initially used a high quality laboratory grade, but I’d expect the bulk grades sold to the world at large to be good enough (and I use it now). Remember, you aren’t dosing much, and the solutions available are very concentrated. You may find “water glass’ in certain stores because it is used by consumers for things like preserving eggs. Buying chemicals can be problematic for many people, however, and this hobby chemistry store 43 sells to individuals. Ten dollars (+ shipping) gets you enough to last 150 years of dosing with a 100-gallon tank, so cost is not an issue. I just ordered some from them myself and it came broken open, unfortunately. Some of you may have gotten Christmas presents that had ¾ of a gallon of sodium silicate solution coating them as they passed my package in the mail. Nevertheless, I
still have enough for several years!).

Many “water glass” or sodium silicate solutions are sold with the concentration indicated by “° Baume”. Degrees Baume is a measure of the specific gravity, and values in the 40’s are typical of these concentrated solutions.44 A concentration of 41° Baume equates to 29% SiO2 by weight. Note that the density is high (1.38 g/mL for 41° Baume), so volume measurements should take this into account. Maybe eventually, some of the hobby supplement manufacturers will provide a supplement.

Safety note: Sodium Silicate solution is very basic (high pH). In fact, the pH can be substantially higher than limewater, so it is very corrosive to tissue and to metal devices. Be careful to not spill it on yourself, wear some eye protection, and if you spill it on something metal, wash it. In all cases, extensive washing with water is recommended in case of spills or exposure.

Based on my dosing experience, aquarists are probably safe dosing the equivalent of 17 uM (1 ppm SiO2) once every 1-2 weeks. That is based on the fact that my tank used that much in less than 4 days without having any sort of “bad” reaction. Of course, there’s nothing wrong with starting at a tenth of that and ramping up. And, of course, if you do get too much in the way of diatoms, just back off on the dosing. I presume that all that I added to my tank went into various organisms that us it (sponges, diatoms, etc), but perhaps I have more sponges than other aquarists, and diatoms consequently may be more of a concern in some tanks than in mine.

I’d also advise occasionally checking the soluble silica concentration in the water, in case the demand in your tank is substantially less than mine. If the concentration started to rise above 50 mM (3 ppm SiO2), even in the absence of diatoms, I’d probably reduce the dose rate because that is close to the maximum concentration that surface seawater ever attains.

Here’s how to determine dosing amounts. I’ll assume that you want 17 uM (1 ppm SiO2) dosing, and you can scale from there. If the concentration of the supplement is 29% silica by weight (41° Baume), then it is 290,000 ppm silica. To get to 1 ppm silica, you then need to dilute by 290,000 fold. If you add 1.3 grams of this supplement (0.96 mL) to a tank with 100 gallons (378,500 mL), then the final concentration will be about 17 uM (1 ppm SiO2). I’d disperse the concentrated silicate solution into some fresh water before adding it to the tank, and then add it to a high flow area. Because the pH is high, you likely will see some cloudiness that is mostly magnesium hydroxide. The magnesium hydroxide will dissolve without a problem, but to be safe, add the supplement in a high flow area.

Interesting ,lastly about the two part dosing thing ,if I take 500mls of rodi then I should mix with 50gm of silicate !?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Interesting ,lastly about the two part dosing thing ,if I take 500mls of rodi then I should mix with 50gm of silicate !?

I suggested 1:1 to match the dosing I recommended (500 g product and 500 mL water), but you can dilute more and dose more.

 

[Rishov]

I suggested 1:1 to match the dosing I recommended (500 g product and 500 mL water), but you can dilute more and dose more.

Great, and lastly I just wana know wether sodium metasilicate is more potent than the normal Na2Si2 and can I dose that 500ml worth of solution at once to the tank and dose it weakly or 100ml on a daily basis ,cause I’m worried if I dose that 500 ml solution at once it could tamper
With my salinity, lowering it, just a hunch thou but will it ? And what if I take out and mix 500ml of tank water and 500mg silicate directly ,will that’s be plausible ?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Great, and lastly I just wana know wether sodium metasilicate is more potent than the normal Na2Si2 and can I dose that 500ml worth of solution at once to the tank and dose it weakly or 100ml on a daily basis ,cause I’m worried if I dose that 500 ml solution at once it could tamper
With my salinity, lowering it, just a hunch thou but will it ? And what if I take out and mix 500ml of tank water and 500mg silicate directly ,will that’s be plausible ?

I'm not following most of that paragraph.

Na2Si2 is not a thing. What exactly are you referring to?

I gave a recipe and showed how often I recommend dosing it. I wouldn't recommend dosing a lot more.

There will not be a noticeable effect on salinity, if that is one of the concerns.

DO NOT mix it with tank water outside the tank

You must dissolve it in RODI or other pure fresh water to make the dosing solution.

 

[DiscoStuart]

Hi Randy,

Coming across this one a few years later - your link goes to Na2Si3O7. Searching in the UK and I find: https://apcpure.com/product/sodium-...p_3oJ3UjcOXFP4rm8o0O9AofoCdDrwXBoC3GwQAvD_BwE

Is that the right stuff?

And by my (I mean Chat GPT's) conversion logic, a dose for 100Gal DT to 1ppm would be 1.24ml.

Logic below - does this seem correct?

**

Step 1: Estimate the SiO₂ concentration in your product​

Total alkali (as Na₂O): 9.2–9.7%
Wt ratio SiO₂:Na₂O = 3.18–3.28

We can use these values to estimate the SiO₂%.

Take a midpoint:

• Assume Na₂O = 9.45%
• Assume SiO₂:Na₂O = 3.23 (average of 3.18–3.28)

So: SiO₂ % ≈ 3.23 × 9.45% = 30.5% SiO₂ by weight

Step 2: Convert that into ppm​

30.5% = 305,000 ppm SiO₂ in the concentrated product.
To get to 1 ppm SiO₂ in your tank:
Dilution factor = 305,000

So for a 378.5 L tank (100 gallons):
You want to add:

(1 / 305,000) × 378,500 mL = ~1.24 mL of concentrate