Skimmer or roller mat

[Bruce Burnett]

I have seen various questions roller mat vs skimmer, skimmer vs ats, roller mat vs ats.
So my question is not vs but or in place of.
I have an ice cap in sump ats(new install) and a read sea skimmer plus rox carbon in reactor in my sump and matrix nitrate media. I had been going without socks for a year had really high nitrates around 25 phosphates 2.5. When I did a water change I had to rearrange partitions in my sump to fit ats. Sump had lots of detritus. I removed the matrix and went to using mesh socks my nitrates are now zero not good and phosphates are 0.04 which is good. The algae scrubber has not had any growth yet so I can assume between going to socks and the skimmer is working better is the biggest cause of reduced nutrients. Since I have problems with back and working under tank, I am looking at roller filters. I have to say the using 75 micron mesh socks the tank is clearer. I don't have room for skimmer and roller mat so it would be one or the other. I like to turn off return when feeding which means currently shutdown skimmer, ato with return. I want to know what others do using a roller mat.when feeding. I hate removing good things from the water but I do like when the tank is super clear. Mesh socks are easily cleaned compared to felt.
The other problem I see with roller filters is on going cost for rolls. Ten mesh filters will last a long time.
Now the real question is what would you go with and why.
Skimmer, socks, ats
Skimmer, no socks ats
Roller mat and ats
Skimmer, roller mat and ats option but is only optional if I remove ato chamber and do external ato.
I also want to hear how long a roll last and if you have sand or not along with brand of roller mat.

 

[FishOkay]

I have all 3 not an ats but a refugium and to me they do different things and I've never really thought about them being one or the other kind of things.
Roller filter is mechanical filtration good for larger particles that a skimmer couldn't pick up a skimmer is good for organic compounds which a filter roll couldn't remove and a refugium for the nutrients as neither filter or skimmer will ever be able to remove enough for nutrients not to build up in my opinion.

 

[gbroadbridge]

I have seen various questions roller mat vs skimmer, skimmer vs ats, roller mat vs ats.
So my question is not vs but or in place of.
I have an ice cap in sump ats(new install) and a read sea skimmer plus rox carbon in reactor in my sump and matrix nitrate media. I had been going without socks for a year had really high nitrates around 25 phosphates 2.5. When I did a water change I had to rearrange partitions in my sump to fit ats. Sump had lots of detritus. I removed the matrix and went to using mesh socks my nitrates are now zero not good and phosphates are 0.04 which is good. The algae scrubber has not had any growth yet so I can assume between going to socks and the skimmer is working better is the biggest cause of reduced nutrients. Since I have problems with back and working under tank, I am looking at roller filters. I have to say the using 75 micron mesh socks the tank is clearer. I don't have room for skimmer and roller mat so it would be one or the other. I like to turn off return when feeding which means currently shutdown skimmer, ato with return. I want to know what others do using a roller mat.when feeding. I hate removing good things from the water but I do like when the tank is super clear. Mesh socks are easily cleaned compared to felt.
The other problem I see with roller filters is on going cost for rolls. Ten mesh filters will last a long time.
Now the real question is what would you go with and why.
Skimmer, socks, ats
Skimmer, no socks ats
Roller mat and ats
Skimmer, roller mat and ats option but is only optional if I remove ato chamber and do external ato.
I also want to hear how long a roll last and if you have sand or not along with brand of roller mat.

Skimmers and Roller mats do different jobs.

The roller mat picks up the floating debris, whereas the skimmer binds proteins for removal from the water.

The skimmer will have an easier job, but is still needed as is chemical filtration like carbon.

 

[Bruce Burnett]

@gbroadbridge, @FishOkay
Yes I am aware they all do different things but trying to get insight from people who use the various methods. A skimmer removing nutrients is same as an ats except i feel ats more effective, good mechanical filtration will also help with nutrient control. Skimmer can help gas exchange which an ats will only help when lit. I have heard some people get no skimate from skimmer after using roller filter if true then other than aeration it will serve no purpose.
So do you have a roller filter? If so what brand, size and tank size with sand? And how long does roll last. The on going cost would be high if you get one or two weeks per roll but 3 or 4 months not so bad with the convenience.

 

[FishOkay]

Yes I am aware they all do different things. A skimmer removing nutrients is same as an ats except i feel ats more effective, good mechanical filtration will also help with nutrient control. Skimmer can help gas exchange which an ats will only help when lit. I have heard some people get no skimate from skimmer after using roller filter if true then other than aeration it will serve no purpose.
So do you have a roller filter? If so what brand, size and tank size with sand? And how long does roll last. The on going cost would be high if you get one or two weeks per roll but 3 or 4 months not so bad with the convenience.

I wouldn't say that as an ats is getting rid of already broken down waste nutrients and a skimmer is removing before it's broken down, but a skimmer cant remove all waste before it's broken down and although mechanical filtration is good again I don't think it's good enough to negate the need for either of the others lol but agree to disagree on that one.

My tank actual water volume is probably 650 litre I have an innovitech x-filter 1.0 (wouldn't recommend really) when I first put it in I was probably going through a roll every 3 weeks but after a couple rolls it increased to like every 6 weeks or so. I think 3 to 4 months on a single roll is probably unrealistic but maybe I could be wrong. Definitely my skimmate has reduced due to the filter roll by quite a bit very noticeable actually but I still am producing.

 

[Dan_P]

Yes I am aware they all do different things. A skimmer removing nutrients is same as an ats except i feel ats more effective, good mechanical filtration will also help with nutrient control. Skimmer can help gas exchange which an ats will only help when lit. I have heard some people get no skimate from skimmer after using roller filter if true then other than aeration it will serve no purpose.
So do you have a roller filter? If so what brand, size and tank size with sand? And how long does roll last. The on going cost would be high if you get one or two weeks per roll but 3 or 4 months not so bad with the convenience.

I use fllter pads for my several year old tank and when they are replaced, the skimmer foam disappears for awhile, but then returns.

I don’t know why this occurs, but guess that the clean filter pad material might adsorb the organic material that contributes to foaming. Until the filter becomes saturated with this organic material, the skimmer foams almost disappears. I imagine this would work the same way for the roller filters, only temporarily killing skimmer foam.

 

[Bruce Burnett]

I use fllter pads for my several year old tank and when they are replaced, the skimmer foam disappears for awhile, but then returns.

I don’t know why this occurs, but guess that the clean filter pad material might adsorb the organic material that contributes to foaming. Until the filter becomes saturated with this organic material, the skimmer foams almost disappears. I imagine this would work the same way for the roller filters, only temporarily killing skimmer foam.

Yes except roller always has new material being exposed so kind of like changing socks or pads very frequently.

 

[Bruce Burnett]

I wouldn't say that as an ats is getting rid of already broken down waste nutrients and a skimmer is removing before it's broken down, but a skimmer cant remove all waste before it's broken down and although mechanical filtration is good again I don't think it's good enough to negate the need for either of the others lol but agree to disagree on that one.

My tank actual water volume is probably 650 litre I have an innovitech x-filter 1.0 (wouldn't recommend really) when I first put it in I was probably going through a roll every 3 weeks but after a couple rolls it increased to like every 6 weeks or so. I think 3 to 4 months on a single roll is probably unrealistic but maybe I could be wrong. Definitely my skimmate has reduced due to the filter roll by quite a bit very noticeable actually but I still am producing.

Ok we don't totally disagree. Ats can actually bring nitrates and phosphates to low. The 3-4 month is from what others have said on various posts. Again it will depend on size, water flow, feeding and live stock load why I am actually asking because I want real world experience and not manufacture claims. Right now I am changing 75 micron mesh filters every 3 days.

 

[FishOkay]

Ok we don't totally disagree. Ats can actually bring nitrates and phosphates to low. The 3-4 month is from what others have said on various posts. Again it will depend on size, water flow, feeding and live stock load why I am actually asking because I want real world experience and not manufacture claims. Right now I am changing 75 micron mesh filters every 3 days.

Yeah and I was way off I just checked when my last order of filter roll was as I bought some more yesterday and it was like 3 months a go lol so yeah that does sound right, I swear it seems like I'm buying it every 6 weeks! Obviously not though haha.
Definitely was the best decision changing from socks to filter roll there is no comparison for me filter roll all the way.

 

[Bruce Burnett]

I wouldn't say that as an ats is getting rid of already broken down waste nutrients and a skimmer is removing before it's broken down, but a skimmer cant remove all waste before it's broken down and although mechanical filtration is good again I don't think it's good enough to negate the need for either of the others lol but agree to disagree on that one.

My tank actual water volume is probably 650 litre I have an innovitech x-filter 1.0 (wouldn't recommend really) when I first put it in I was probably going through a roll every 3 weeks but after a couple rolls it increased to like every 6 weeks or so. I think 3 to 4 months on a single roll is probably unrealistic but maybe I could be wrong. Definitely my skimmate has reduced due to the filter roll by quite a bit very noticeable actually but I still am producing.

With the x-filter you have a choice of 4 different micron size, do you know what you are using? Not as easy to find x-filter here.

 

[FishOkay]

With the x-filter you have a choice of 4 different micron size, do you know what you are using? Not as easy to find x-filter here.

Yeah I'm using the 25 micron but in honesty if I could go back I would choose a different filter so imo its no loss it not being easy to find! It's overpriced for what it is and isn't the best build quality. I've always thought its a bit embarrassing being advertised as made in UK haha
But to be fair after first one failed after 2 weeks it's been working flawlessly. It's just no red sea reef matt

 

[Bruce Burnett]

Yeah and I was way off I just checked when my last order of filter roll was as I bought some more yesterday and it was like 3 months a go lol so yeah that does sound right, I swear it seems like I'm buying it every 6 weeks! Obviously not though haha.
Definitely was the best decision changing from socks to filter roll there is no comparison for me filter roll all the way.

So many ways of doing things and all about ease and cost. I like reading on Mico tanks those around a gallon or less. No filtration but do need a temp controlled room. They feed very little and then real heavy once a week. Do a total water change after heavy feeding. Replace with water just mixed they don't wory about temp much and just make sure salinity is close. I thought about trying one but then I had to be realistic. No way I could stick that close to the routine. I have to remember I am a bit lazy.

 

[Bruce Burnett]

Yeah I'm using the 25 micron but in honesty if I could go back I would choose a different filter so imo its no loss it not being easy to find! It's overpriced for what it is and isn't the best build quality. I've always thought its a bit embarrassing being advertised as made in UK haha
But to be fair after first one failed after 2 weeks it's been working flawlessly. It's just no red sea reef matt

Now you understand my thoughts. The red sea has reviews good and bad. Some say they have problems even connecting to the roller mat and trouble getting a response from red sea, where they say never going to buy a red sea product again. Was also looking at bubble mangus gen 2, aqua max, ClariSea. I think if you use the biggest one you can fit in sump not only does it handle more flow the rolls will last longer without much difference in cost. The Klir has some of the worst reviews and not cheapest. I would have to buy the free standing unit to go with it as I don't have regular sock area. Everything else would require more space than I have with skimmer in sump. Without the skimmer I can fit the larger roller mats.
Only reason I would even consider removing ato section of sump is for ability to have one hold enough for 14-15 days but wife does not want anything outside of stand. If I did that I would still have room for skimmer in sump.

 

[Kfactor]

save your money and do filter floss and a skimmer

 

[gbroadbridge]

@gbroadbridge, @FishOkay
Yes I am aware they all do different things but trying to get insight from people who use the various methods. A skimmer removing nutrients is same as an ats except i feel ats more effective, good mechanical filtration will also help with nutrient control. Skimmer can help gas exchange which an ats will only help when lit. I have heard some people get no skimate from skimmer after using roller filter if true then other than aeration it will serve no purpose.
So do you have a roller filter? If so what brand, size and tank size with sand? And how long does roll last. The on going cost would be high if you get one or two weeks per roll but 3 or 4 months not so bad with the convenience.

I run both a roller mat and a skimmer.

The skimmer output has reduced but become more dense. I also carbon dose and run ozone so the skimmer fulfils more than one
task.

My skimmer is an X-filter 1.0 running on a 90 gallon system.
The system is mixed reef with sand substrate.

I've been using a 17 micron roll since 5th April and it's approximately 50% used. X-filters do have longer rolls than some other brands - 60 meters. Never had a problems with it going nuts and using media out of control, one of my best purchases ever.

 

[gbru316]

Roller mat and skimmer.

Find a large decorative basket or cabinet to hide your ATO reservoir in.

 

[Bruce Burnett]

Roller mat and skimmer.

Find a large decorative basket or cabinet to hide your ATO reservoir in.

My wife would want to move it every time she cleans. She believes in moving every item that can be moved, sofas, beds, dressers, she is a bit ocd not as bad as years ago. Thought about something attached to wall off floor. To last 2 weeks would need to be about 10 gallons.

 

[gbroadbridge]

My wife would want to move it every time she cleans. She believes in moving every item that can be moved, sofas, beds, dressers, she is a bit ocd not as bad as years ago. Thought about something attached to wall off floor. To last 2 weeks would need to be about 10 gallons.

My wife is the same. Put it on wheels with enough slack in the tube and wires so she can move it enough to clean.

Make it clear that spills are her problem

 

[gbru316]

My wife would want to move it every time she cleans. She believes in moving every item that can be moved, sofas, beds, dressers, she is a bit ocd not as bad as years ago. Thought about something attached to wall off floor. To last 2 weeks would need to be about 10 gallons.

Some construction adhesive and caulk would ensure that dirt never collects underneath

 

[Bruce Burnett]

Some construction adhesive and caulk would ensure that dirt never collects underneath

I could have a secondary ato setup to use when going out of town if I don't modify sump. I have all my electronics in a separate cabinet which I could put ato in but then that defeats not having any water with electronics