Skimmer vs algae scrubber

[CKI]

Just purchased a red Sea reefer 170 which has a small sump. would I benefit more from a skimmer or a well custom built scrubber that meets my needs? I know in the past everyone bashed them, but they have came a long way and would like some input.

 

[Ty Hamatake]

I've never used used a scrubber, but I would think a skimmer would be the way to go. I kind of look at it like a skimmer is preventative maintenance, where you're removing the wastes and proteins before they have a chance to break down and feed your algae. A scrubber on the other hand is just more efficiently (hopefully) utilizing the nutrients to feed the algae in the scrubber and not the tank.

At least this is my understanding of the two. Maybe someone else can add more.

 

[jason2459]

As said in your cross thread, why not both.

 

[cracker]

May I suggest running the skimmer 1st. Then if You have nutrient issues install a scrubber.

 

[jason2459]

May I suggest running the skimmer 1st. Then if You have nutrient issues install a scrubber.

Or carbon dosing. Or all 3.

 

[Ty Hamatake]

All three+zeovit+a roller mat and you will be rock solid ;)

 

[DeniseAndy]

I run a skimmer and an algae scrubber. The scrubber is also used as a place for algae to grow rather than the display tank. It out competes the display for nutrients and keeps it clearer of algae. That is why I use the scrubber. Would not want a large system without one.

 

[nervousmonkey]

+1 to everyone, but @DeniseAndy nailed it pretty well. I run the same setup and that is a fool proof setup. You'll keep low nutrient levels, low algae levels in the display, removal of dissolved organics, cleaner water, and you'll be able to keep the parameters you want. I run biopellets as well, so have to keep a low to normal alkalinity level, but order of priority is: skimmer, then algae turf scrubber (ATS), then other means of nutrient export. You'll have a fantastic tank with a good skimmer and good ATS.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

I run a skimmer and an algae scrubber. The scrubber is also used as a place for algae to grow rather than the display tank. It out competes the display for nutrients and keeps it clearer of algae. That is why I use the scrubber. Would not want a large system without one.

+1 to everyone, but @DeniseAndy nailed it pretty well. I run the same setup and that is a fool proof setup. You'll keep low nutrient levels, low algae levels in the display, removal of dissolved organics, cleaner water, and you'll be able to keep the parameters you want. I run biopellets as well, so have to keep a low to normal alkalinity level, but order of priority is: skimmer, then algae turf scrubber (ATS), then other means of nutrient export. You'll have a fantastic tank with a good skimmer and good ATS.

Yup.

And this from a refugium guy. But I need bugs for my fish and animals and nutrient export.

 

[PatW]

Well, it depends on your system. If you want a low nutrient environment for sps corals with a pot load of fish, the you might need a scrubber AND a skimmer AND carbon dosing. But if you are running corals that like moderate levels of nutrients and a bunch of fish, one or the other would probably work.

 

[helldiver]

Would run. A skimmer first then add ats later i think they work. Great together

 

[helldiver]

You can. Make a ats for 25 dollars or less

 

[MaccaPopEye]

Both.

You can run a system with a skimmer only and you can run a system with a scrubber only. But at the end of the day while they are both removing nutrients they aren't really doing the same thing. Many people recommend a skimmer & fuge combo, I recommend the same but replace the fuge with a scrubber.

Skimmers remove organics (most of which would otherwise break down into nutrients but not all) and aerate the water.

Scrubbers use up nutrients that are already in the system after organics that are missed by the skimmer (skimmers aren't really that efficient) have broken down. But the bigger thing they do IMO is create the absolute perfect environment for algae to grow. They are like a fuge on steroids if done right. Algae wont grow in your display if it has the perfect place to grow already.

Turbo Aquatics do the best off the shelf scrubbers IMO. If you cant afford on of his (they are expensive but worth it) then I would DIY. The other off the shelf models aren't bad but can be made at home for a fraction of the price, but if you really don't want to DIY one then I think 302 aquatics also do semi decent waterfall scrubbers :)

 

[CKI]

Both.

You can run a system with a skimmer only and you can run a system with a scrubber only. But at the end of the day while they are both removing nutrients they aren't really doing the same thing. Many people recommend a skimmer & fuge combo, I recommend the same but replace the fuge with a scrubber.

Skimmers remove organics (most of which would otherwise break down into nutrients but not all) and aerate the water.

Scrubbers use up nutrients that are already in the system after organics that are missed by the skimmer (skimmers aren't really that efficient) have broken down. But the bigger thing they do IMO is create the absolute perfect environment for algae to grow. They are like a fuge on steroids if done right. Algae wont grow in your display if it has the perfect place to grow already.

Turbo Aquatics do the best off the shelf scrubbers IMO. If you cant afford on of his (they are expensive but worth it) then I would DIY. The other off the shelf models aren't bad but can be made at home for a fraction of the price, but if you really don't want to DIY one then I think 302 aquatics also do semi decent waterfall scrubbers :)

302 is local to me. talked to him the other day and willing to build pretty much whatever setup I want. not to mention isn't all that much to get done

 

[MaccaPopEye]

302 is local to me. talked to him the other day and willing to build pretty much whatever setup I want. not to mention isn't all that much to get done

If that is the case then go with them. Their scrubbers are really simple and cost next to nothing to make but really you are paying for labour to make it so the price is fair. Just 2 things IMO with 302:

1) make sure whatever he makes you has a primary AND an emergency drain. I've seen some of his with only a primary drain which is plain dumb, algae can detach and block the drain, not common but it does happen, pretty sure I have seen some of his with emergency drains though so I don't know why they don't all have them.

2) be very weary of what he tells you in regards to sizing and do your own research before agreeing. He seems to have a very weird way of sizing scrubbers and I have seen him recommend some scrubbers to people that are way too big and others that are way too small. Too small can be really bad and too big is not the worst but can cause the screen to not mature as well as you will want it to.

Read this web site well (http://algaescrubber.zohosites.com/) to make sure you understand how and why everything works, especially the correlation between screen size, lighting and flow to make sure the scrubber he builds you is sized properly (a little oversized is ok, but within reason). People like Santa Monica and FloydRTurbo have done a lot of work and figured out more or less the best formula for this, 302 seems to think he knows better and while most of his are fine I have seen him recommend some silly screen sizes.

He also uses warm white lights, a lot of people have had better results with red lights (for plant growth) but I would say that is a small issue and both can be fine, I have also seen people get bad growth on red and switch to warm white to have great growth so either or is fine.

 

[CKI]

If that is the case then go with them. Their scrubbers are really simple and cost next to nothing to make but really you are paying for labour to make it so the price is fair. Just 2 things IMO with 302:

1) make sure whatever he makes you has a primary AND an emergency drain. I've seen some of his with only a primary drain which is plain dumb, algae can detach and block the drain, not common but it does happen, pretty sure I have seen some of his with emergency drains though so I don't know why they don't all have them.

2) be very weary of what he tells you in regards to sizing and do your own research before agreeing. He seems to have a very weird way of sizing scrubbers and I have seen him recommend some scrubbers to people that are way too big and others that are way too small. Too small can be really bad and too big is not the worst but can cause the screen to not mature as well as you will want it to.

Read this web site well (http://algaescrubber.zohosites.com/) to make sure you understand how and why everything works, especially the correlation between screen size, lighting and flow to make sure the scrubber he builds you is sized properly (a little oversized is ok, but within reason). People like Santa Monica and FloydRTurbo have done a lot of work and figured out more or less the best formula for this, 302 seems to think he knows better and while most of his are fine I have seen him recommend some silly screen sizes.

He also uses warm white lights, a lot of people have had better results with red lights (for plant growth) but I would say that is a small issue and both can be fine, I have also seen people get bad growth on red and switch to warm white to have great growth so either or is fine.

Yes we discussed sizes. The original one I wanted was only rated to around 40gal. Since I plan to stock heavy with corals and what not I opted to go with a 12long 6 tall with 4 lights. I will look into the emergency drain though.

 

[helldiver]

@MaccaPopEye great rigbt up and advice so agreed my diy ats tlf valve 1/2 in pvc mj1200 tubbing needle point mat and par 38 bulb 40 dollars

 

[MaccaPopEye]

Yeah that's the kind of stuff I'm talking about - sizing by gallons is essentially the oldest way of sizing and hasn't been done for years by anyone else.

The absolute best way to size a screen according to every other scrubber manufacturer (and by people who have been doing this for a long time) is by the amount you want to feed. Think about your tank when it is fully stocked and all the stock is grown up, add in a whole lot of coral and assume you feed that too. Then think of what you will be feeding. It is based off of cubes of frozen food per day as nutrients in needs to equal nutrients out (the link I posted should have a kind of conversion table for other types of food, it is all rough but works well enough). An example is if you want to be feeding 3-4 cubes of frozen food per day then go with a 4 cube screen. If you want to feed 2-3 cubes per day go with a 3 cube screen etc.

Then what lights you use is based on the screen size and should be the correct wattage. The link I posted explains it all :)

 

[MaccaPopEye]

@MaccaPopEye great rigbt up and advice so agreed my diy ats tlf valve 1/2 in pvc mj1200 tubbing needle point mat and par 38 bulb 40 dollars

I love those budget builds. They work well and are so cheap it would be silly not to have one haha.

I went a bit further and built an acrylic box (never done anything like it before) but quite happy with how it turned out!

 

[CKI]

For a 4 light 4 screen unit all acrylic, with custom acrylic stand for my sump, all plumbing and adjustable pump total price for it all is 225 in whatever color I want