Snorkeling & Collecting Discussion Group

[Saintnovakai]

I's just got waaan queschin there Big Ron. What about them there sharks?

Thats my one fear snorkelling too far from the shore. Any tips to came the fear?

 

[Ron Reefman]

I's just got waaan queschin there Big Ron. What about them there sharks?

Thats my one fear snorkelling too far from the shore. Any tips to came the fear?

I'm not sure what to say. When I moved to Florida and started snorkeling more and more in 2002, I was very concerned about sharks... OK, I was afraid of them! Now I still have a very healthy respect for them, but after being around all kinds of stuff in the water that made me nervous, I'm not afraid anymore. If a big shark swam near me I'd just try to be as calm as I could, try to keep my arms and legs as still as possible and close to my body and wait for it to swim away. Sharks are attracted to animals that exhibit flailing around and appearing panicked. But if it came at me, I'd be ready to try and punch it in the nose, eye or gills. If that fails, I probably won't remember much anyway! ;Nailbiting Just remember the odds, the number of people killed by sharks every year is in the VERY low single digits. And most of them are surfers or fisherman!

I think 2 things have calmed me down about sharks. First we don't see them very often. When we do they are usually small and more often than not they are nurse sharks. And I've been within inches of a couple of small ones and they swim away really, REALLY fast as they are more afraid of me than I am of them. The other reason is a news story I saw some years ago. A young boy about 9 or 10 years old was out in the water standing with his dad who was surf fishing. A 10' bull shark (ok, that's one to be afraid of) swam up and took his entire arm in its mouth and bit down at his shoulder. This very young kid reached out with his other hand and grabbed at the sharks gill slits and yanked as hard as he could! The shark let go for a second but then bit down again getting the boy at his elbow. He tried for the gill slits again but they were too far away. So he took his thumb and stuck it in the sharks eye! The shark let go and swam off. The boy survived... although he got lots and lots of stitches! But if a small boy can be that calm, smart and fast to react, why can't I? Besides, I race sports cars as a hobby and at 120+mph going wheel to wheel into a corner with another car and having to brake at the absolute limit down to 80mph, get around the corner and accelerate away means thinking fast, reacting fast and doing all while WAY too much adrenaline is rushing through my system! I've found that I am very able to keep my head about me when all around me are losing theirs!

Now if it's a surprise attack from behind... my gravestone will also list my nickname... Shark Bait!

 

[Saintnovakai]

I'm not sure what to say. When I moved to Florida and started snorkeling more and more in 2002, I was very concerned about sharks... OK, I was afraid of them! Now I still have a very healthy respect for them, but after being around all kinds of stuff in the water that made me nervous, I'm not afraid anymore. If a big shark swam near me I'd just try to be as calm as I could, try to keep my arms and legs as still as possible and close to my body and wait for it to swim away. Sharks are attracted to animals that exhibit flailing around and appearing panicked. But if it came at me, I'd be ready to try and punch it in the nose, eye or gills. If that fails, I probably won't remember much anyway! ;Nailbiting Just remember the odds, the number of people killed by sharks every year is in the VERY low single digits. And most of them are surfers or fisherman!

I think 2 things have calmed me down about sharks. First we don't see them very often. When we do they are usually small and more often than not they are nurse sharks. And I've been within inches of a couple of small ones and they swim away really, REALLY fast as they are more afraid of me than I am of them. The other reason is a news story I saw some years ago. A young boy about 9 or 10 years old was out in the water standing with his dad who was surf fishing. A 10' bull shark (ok, that's one to be afraid of) swam up and took his entire arm in its mouth and bit down at his shoulder. This very young kid reached out with his other hand and grabbed at the sharks gill slits and yanked as hard as he could! The shark let go for a second but then bit down again getting the boy at his elbow. He tried for the gill slits again but they were too far away. So he took his thumb and stuck it in the sharks eye! The shark let go and swam off. The boy survived... although he got lots and lots of stitches! But if a small boy can be that calm, smart and fast to react, why can't I? Besides, I race sports cars as a hobby and at 120+mph going wheel to wheel into a corner with another car and having to brake at the absolute limit down to 80mph, get around the corner and accelerate away means thinking fast, reacting fast and doing all while WAY too much adrenaline is rushing through my system! I've found that I am very able to keep my head about me when all around me are losing theirs!

Now if it's a surprise attack from behind... my gravestone will also list my nickname... Shark Bait!

Shark bait. Hoohahaaa!

Thanks for the tip. I also race a bit. Honda Type R in sig. Its not so much the panic. Its the unfamilar territory and the lack of 360 degree viewing.lol. Thanks again.

 

[Ron Reefman]

A photo from our trip to Belize.

P5070261R2 by Ron Lindensmith, on Flickr

 

[Iona Skye]

Here is a small sample of the fun and sights we get to see while just doing a simple snorkel off the beach in the Florida Keys.

Here is a Condy anemone. These used to be pretty common in the Keys, but a few years ago they were put on an endangered list and they can't be collected by recreational fishing license holders like me. And it's probably a good thing as we do see less of them now than we did even 5 years ago.
Condy at Blackfin by Ron Lindensmith, on Flickr

Here is a close up of another Condy with an almost see through anemone shrimp. These are quite difficult to see unless you really take your time, watch very closely and don't move around too much. They can disappear into the anemone in the blink of an eye.

anemone shrimp by Ron Lindensmith, on Flickr

How about holding an octopus in your own hand! This little guy was just off the beach at one of our favorite sites in the Keys.
octopus in hand by Ron Lindensmith, on Flickr

I love this photo. It's one of the few that I have taken. This is my wife who takes 75% or more of the photos I share here.
P5070332R1 - Copy by Ron Lindensmith, on Flickr

I love the pics.... My husband and I used to go free diving in So Cal all the time, back when were punk kids with time on our hands

What I really want to ask is your opinions on wild collecting. When I was a kid I caught butterflies, and once accidentally misidentified a threatened species as a common one. I felt so guilty I stopped collecting! Do you have suggested guidelines to prevent those kinds of mistakes when collecting marine life? How do you responsibly collect (beyond just local laws), especially when so many oceanic ecosystems are becoming more fragile?

Side note: I've always wanted to do a cold water setup with local species. But I haven't decided what I think about collecting anything besides crabs and urchins and the really abundant stuff.

 

[Ron Reefman]

I love the pics.... My husband and I used to go free diving in So Cal all the time, back when were punk kids with time on our hands

What I really want to ask is your opinions on wild collecting. When I was a kid I caught butterflies, and once accidentally misidentified a threatened species as a common one. I felt so guilty I stopped collecting! Do you have suggested guidelines to prevent those kinds of mistakes when collecting marine life? How do you responsibly collect (beyond just local laws), especially when so many oceanic ecosystems are becoming more fragile?

Side note: I've always wanted to do a cold water setup with local species. But I haven't decided what I think about collecting anything besides crabs and urchins and the really abundant stuff.

I hear what you are saying and I try to only collect things I recognize. And I'm much more aware of that now than I was before. In January we were walking a sandbar out on Sanibel Island and I collected a filter feeding cucumber that I didn't know what it was. And it turns out to be illegal because all echinoderms (stars, sand dollars, sea biscuits and cucumbers are illegal to collect there. My bad... but it's not like it's an endangered species. In the big picture I see the collecting I do as being the same as any recreational fisherman catching fish. Or any hunter killing deer or ducks.

Think about it. I can only collect 20 live animals a day (and we're talking individual coral polyps and snails and hermit crabs) and I go snorkeling 6 to 10 days a year. My neighbor goes fishing nearly every weekend the weather is OK, probably 20 or 40 days a year and comes home with lots of big fish. I'm as green as most tree huggers and I just don't see this as a big issue. And the state of Florida is very protective of their reefs and wildlife!

 

[Ron Reefman]

How about a couple of photos that are only indirectly related to snorkeling in the Keys.

To start with, I'll bet you had no idea how big the Florida lobsters can get! I thought this one was going to attack me, but it didn't. Also notice that Florida lobsters don't have any claws (unlike the Maine lobsters).

attack of the giant lobster RB23 by Ron Lindensmith, on Flickr


I like this one because I took the picture and normally it's Elaine that takes the pictures. And I rarely get halfway good bird photos. This one I couldn't resist. This is at the beach in Bahia Honda State Park. I got the bird, I got my wife and I even got Little Bahia Honda Key that is about a 1/4 mile off shore. From the beach out to the island never gets more than about 6' deep at low tide, so you could almost walk there. However, it's right off the southwest end of Bahia Honda Key and the current of the tide going in and out is really strong. You couldn't stand up to it and you couldn't swim against it. Use a kayak or a small boat. And there is some very cool environments underwater to the east (very shallow and lots of rock boring urchins and juvenile tropical fish) and south of the island (10' to 20' deep and more stony corals like out at the big reef. And a charter boat goes out to Looe Key (5 miles off shore) which is the big reef. The park also rents snorkel gear cheap.

P1010128 by Ron Lindensmith, on Flickr

I even got a good photo of the juvenile Black Crowned Night Heron. Not bad for a hack nature photographer who does way better photographing race cars!

P1010014 by Ron Lindensmith, on Flickr

 

[happyhourhero]

There are some either doctorfish or juv Atlantic blue tangs that are about silver dollar size on the pillars of the pier here. I plan to try and get one in the next couple of weeks. Have converted an old crab net to a clear plastic bag. Will update if it works.

 

[Ron Reefman]

There are some either doctorfish or juv Atlantic blue tangs that are about silver dollar size on the pillars of the pier here. I plan to try and get one in the next couple of weeks. Have converted an old crab net to a clear plastic bag. Will update if it works.

Are the juvenile blue tangs yellow?

We see them when we snorkel in the Keys, but they are way to fast for me. And even our 'expert' fish catcher hasn't been able to net one yet! Good luck.

 

[Ron Reefman]

This is the kind of weather I'm hoping for next week when we are snorkeling in the Keys... but the forecast doesn't look that good. But then that's looking at a forecast that is 4 and 5 days out and I never count on any weather forecast that is more tah 24 to 36 hours out!

This is looking southeast from the water on the south side of Money Key, a small island about a mile east of the west end of the Seven Mile Bridge in the Middle Keys. There are probably several acres of water that are less than 3 feet deep and covered with cool life, including everything from anemones to zoas!

P6210039 R2 by Ron Lindensmith, on Flickr

I'll have a laptop with us and will post while we are there and many more photos (hopefully underwater photos) when we get back home. If anybody has any questions about locations, snorkeling or collecting, I'm always happy to try and help.

 

[Ron Reefman]

We arrived at 2pm on Tuesday and it was mostly overcast with some showers in the area so we decided to just drive to several possible snorkel sites. The water on the ocean side is choppy enough to make travel uncomfortable in an 11 foot Zodiac and off the beach snorkeling difficult with low visibility. The Florida Bay side of the Keys is much calmer, and visibility is a bit murky, but probably acceptable.

However, Wednesday morning we awoke to a heavy rain and the radar shows rain in the area until at least noon to 1 pm. So we are going to drive up to the History of Diving Museum and an artist village. If the weather improves we'll try to get a snorkel in this afternoon.

 

[dbraun15]

Hope the weather improves...enjoy your trip and relaxation!

 

[flowflezy]

Very awesome will have to check it out? What kind of licensing do u need I have an agriculture license.

 

[Ron Reefman]

Hope the weather improves...enjoy your trip and relaxation!

So do we! I was very overcast and lots of spotty shower around so we didn't snorkel. Instead we went to the History of Diving Museum on Islamorada. For $10 each, it was a great museum. When we get back I'll start posting some photos. They have a multi million dollar collection of diving helmets on display in just one exhibit! Well worth stopping if you are looking for something to do.

Very awesome will have to check it out? What kind of licensing do u need I have an agriculture license.

You can do limited collecting (20 live animals per license holder per day... absolutely NO stony corals) with just a Florida Saltwater Fishing License. I'm hoping to get a couple of good looking serpent stars, maybe another rock flower anemone and of course if I find anything special, like a clown crab. The weather looks better for Wednesday. I'll post photos on Friday or Saturday when we get home.

 

[Gary S]

Im planning a trip to Cape Cod , Massachusetts , next year, and wondered what kind of licenseing and such id need to collect inverts and such (if it's even legal). Anybody know? Havent found any info online...

 

[norfolkgarden]

Im planning a trip to Cape Cod , Massachusetts , next year, and wondered what kind of licenseing and such id need to collect inverts and such (if it's even legal). Anybody know? Havent found any info online...

Not sure about the license.

Do you have a cold water tank with a good chiller?

I grew up in Massachusetts and we used to go to Newport Beach in Rhode Island in late August when the water finally warmed up to 62ﾟ.

Silly kids. Coming out of the water pruned and shivering and telling mom we were fine and going back in.
Good times.

 

[Ron Reefman]

Not sure about the license.

Do you have a cold water tank with a good chiller?

I grew up in Massachusetts and we used to go to Newport Beach in Rhode Island in late August when the water finally warmed up to 62ﾟ.

Silly kids. Coming out of the water pruned and shivering and telling mom we were fine and going back in.
Good times.

I put on my heavy winter wetsuit when the water temp gets below 70!

 

[Ron Reefman]

I'm back from the Keys. Thursday was AWESOME! It was a bit too windy to do anything on the oceanside of the Keys, but the Florida Bay side was better. And we snorkeled the lee side of Little Money Key (near the SW end of the Seven Mile Bridge). To start things here is a photo of me just getting away from the Zodiac in 30" of water. The sandy path out in front of me (50 yards away) is so shallow you can't snorkel over it at low tide. In this area there's a lot of water that is so shallow you don't have to dip your snorkel under the surface to reach things on the bottom! That will be true of almost every photo I'll post of the next week or more. BTW, my wife took all the underwater photos!

P8020230 by Ron Lindensmith, on Flickr


And this is a pair of shots that is very unusual and drove me crazy. The coral is an sps and therefore totally and completely illegal to collect with just a saltwater fishing license. And in this area of several acres of shallow water, this was the only colony of this coral we saw. And it would be hard to miss! And to make matters worse, it has two nice red feather dusters in it! The good news is, I'm 90% sure this is not a photosynthetic coral, so it would be very difficult to keep in most aquariums.

First is a longer shot so you can see how it just jumps out at you from the rest of the surroundings. Oh, and BTW, this was about 20 feet from where we anchored the Zodiac!

P8020177 by Ron Lindensmith, on Flickr


And then the close up. Man, it just killed me to leave this coral. Odds are that somebody who doesn't know crap about coral will see this and think they can take it home, dry it out and put it on a shelf and it will still be yellow after it's dead! I know exactly where it is and the next time I go there I'll look for it. But the after effects of Hurricane Irma have got some funky algae growing all over the place at this site. So this was the bright spot in our 3+ hours of snorkeling as well as the part that frustrated me the most.

P8020176 by Ron Lindensmith, on Flickr


More , many more photos to follow!

 

[Ron Reefman]

I ended up bringing home a few RFA's. One on purpose and a couple by accident! The one I collected on purpose looks like a smaller version of this one in the photo. This one is about 2' to 3' in diameter and is the exact opposite of the extra colorful RFA's I'm always looking for. But I guess it falls into the very unusual RFA category. I've seen hundreds of the more ordinary RFA's when snorkeling in the Keys. I even know of a patch reef at a tiny island that is littered with them. But I've never seen one this white before.

This one is pure white, and not an ivory or off white but really bright white. Now we found it in about 18" to 24" of water so the sun is very bright so it just jumped out at me as I was looking around. We (my wife takes 99% of the underwater photos) took several photos and then moved on. Later Elaine found another one that was much smaller, a bit bigger than a pencil eraser, and attached to a very small piece of dead stony coral. So we collected it. We also saw several other nearly all white RFA's as well as many other tans, browns and greens.

P8020124R1 by Ron Lindensmith, on Flickr

Here are what I think is the far more common 'not quite white' RFA's. Don't get me wrong, I love the patterns and designs many of these shallow water RFA's exhibit. But most, or at least many of these RFA's don't fluoresce like the colorful ones do. If you find ones with green tentacles, the green seems to fluoresce very well.

P8020156 by Ron Lindensmith, on Flickr


I'll post up a couple shots of my white RFA as well as the 2 'accidentally' collected RFA's that were found in some sponges and zoas we collected. Last night I put the small darker colored RFA in my 5g holding tank and under the blue leds it fluoresced mostly yellow light. I was kind of shocked based on it being a darker color under white lights. I'll add photos once they get settled in and open up properly.

 

[Ron Reefman]

The primary thing I wanted to collect on this trip was some smaller serpent and brittle stars. I already know they are very communal and can live together in groups, sometimes even groups of 5 to 10 stars under a rock. I've had stars for many years but let most of them go with the aquariums I've sold or when I was selling the livestock before selling the tank. Now my 40g cube is fully stocked with corals (mostly zoas) and lots of rock flower anemones along with tiny white feather dusters 2 different kinds of sea cucumbers, shrimp, snails and blue leg hermit crabs, I think I'm ready to add stars.

Finding stars on this snorkel was like trying to find popcorn in a movie theater! I'd bet one out of every 10 to 15 times I picked up anything loose off the bottom, there was a star. Almost all of them of the size I was looking for. This way they can mature and grow as a group. And as I've stated previously, this was all in water that was about 18" to 30" deep and between 50' and 200' off the edge of the island.

Small serpent stars can be very hard to find if you just float around looking for them. I't not hard to see in this photo because you know there is one there... somewhere! But put that in a sea bottom full of turtle grass, broken finger coral (dead & alive) and lots of sponges and it's rare that you'll see one.

P8020239 by Ron Lindensmith, on Flickr


Here is what I found as a typical pick up that had a star.

P8020194 by Ron Lindensmith, on Flickr

This is fairly typical of the branching finger coral that is very common in the shallows here. Some of it is quite nice, but it's rarely even as big as this clump that Elaine picked up and found a star living inside. There is also a lot of it that's very dead and covered with sponges. Some, in the right areas also get covered with green zoas.

P8020253 by Ron Lindensmith, on Flickr


Then I'd isolate the star from the rock, coral, sponge, seaweed... whatever, and take a good look at it.

P8020141 by Ron Lindensmith, on Flickr

Here is what I brought home for the aquarium. This first one was just to great a color to pass up. The central disk almost sparkled like a jewel!

star blue disk serpent by Ron Lindensmith, on Flickr

This one was a close second and has different colors on it's legs.

star light blue disk serpent by Ron Lindensmith, on Flickr

I almost didn't take this one as it's fairly obvious that it's recovering from some kind of injury. Two legs are significantly smaller than the other three and one of the short ones was broken at the tip. But out in the water, with the sun shining down bright, this was a crazy nice shade of red. So I decided to care for it's recovery myself.

star red serpent by Ron Lindensmith, on Flickr

I did have a couple of accidental collections of stars. This one climbed out of a clump of sponge and dead coral I brought home. I made sure it was placed in the live rock of my tank, whether it survives or not is pretty much a 'life on the reef' issue! BTW, I found the nickel while snorkeling as well!

star tiny by Ron Lindensmith, on Flickr

Here are all 6 stars I collected on purpose. Now I'm a bit concerned about the darker one in the middle of the photo. I've read a lot of anecdotal accounts that green brittle stars are the only ones that really go after fish. I have my doubts about them catching healthy live fish at all, as well as why green ones and not all of them? But then is this even a green star? For the meantime it's in my 5g holding tank along with a couple of sponges and a tiny rock flower anemone that is attached to a very small rock that has a couple of sponges on it. BTW, I have very slim hopes of keeping any sponges alive. As far as I know they are not photosynthetic and are very difficult to keep long term (as in more than a month or two). And rather than fowling my 40g cube, I'll keep them in a 5g holding tank for a week or two.

stars bundle by Ron Lindensmith, on Flickr

As always, I'm open to any and all comments or questions. Thanks for looking.