Snowflake eel is in rough shape

Lionfish hunter

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You need to be more concerned about the ammonia than some possible liver damage rabbit hole. Longterm exposure at these levels is really bad.
 

lion king

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I was mostly interested in your opinion - as to (lets say besides diet - and people buying them in the wrong tank) - why they do not do well.

Caret surfing, chemical exposure, diet. I;ve posted threads in the Predatory Forum in reference to diet for those interested. People also feed them too frequently which has been known to cause fatty liver. Eels can live through lfs dosing sub-therapeutic levels of copper, prophylactic copper treatment in qt's, and even full blown copper treatment but will pay for it later. Antibiotics also seem to have a delayed negative effect, and are many times are not warranted. Injuries that many treat with antibiotics would heal on their own if in optimum water conditions and fed a healthy diet, recommending live food while recovering. They can survive the tank cleaners and eradication chemicals like flat worm exit, etc; but again will pay for it later. Believe it or not carpet surfing is the #1 killer. Internal parasites are very common and they can tolerate the treatment, general cure or paracleanse in the water column. But many people teach others about how hunger strikes are normal, while this is the #1 indicator for internal parasites. So if you can keep them in the tank; keep a clean, chemical(meds are chemicals too) free tank, and feed a fresh varied diet limited in thiaminese; they will live well into the teens.
 

lion king

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Why is there ammonia in the tank? This is a red flag and possibly the issue, maybe probably. If he has been exposed to .35 ammonia longterm, that is not good! Put sechem prime in now to neutralize the ammonia. Has everybody else missed this???

You are right lion killer there should be 0 ammonia and that is a big concern. All the other points I made are valid and there is no need to be nasty with me because you won't take personal responsibility when you kill your lions.
 

MnFish1

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Caret surfing, chemical exposure, diet. I;ve posted threads in the Predatory Forum in reference to diet for those interested. People also feed them too frequently which has been known to cause fatty liver. Eels can live through lfs dosing sub-therapeutic levels of copper, prophylactic copper treatment in qt's, and even full blown copper treatment but will pay for it later. Antibiotics also seem to have a delayed negative effect, and are many times are not warranted. Injuries that many treat with antibiotics would heal on their own if in optimum water conditions and fed a healthy diet, recommending live food while recovering. They can survive the tank cleaners and eradication chemicals like flat worm exit, etc; but again will pay for it later. Believe it or not carpet surfing is the #1 killer. Internal parasites are very common and they can tolerate the treatment, general cure or paracleanse in the water column. But many people teach others about how hunger strikes are normal, while this is the #1 indicator for internal parasites. So if you can keep them in the tank; keep a clean, chemical(meds are chemicals too) free tank, and feed a fresh varied diet limited in thiaminese; they will live well into the teens.
curious - with the liver disease you've noticed - have you ever biopsied - had histology done?
 

Lionfish hunter

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You are right lion killer there should be 0 ammonia and that is a big concern. All the other points I made are valid and there is no need to be nasty with me because you won't take personal responsibility when you kill your lions.
You’re the nasty one, 100%.
 

Lionfish hunter

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You completely miss the most obvious issue because you’re so concerned with your liver poisoning theory. And then you throw a tantrum and make some insane comment to the guy who points out what is actually killing the eel.

Just so everybody knows, he told me my lion died because of liver poisoning too. Insanity.[/QUOTE]
 
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GARRIGA

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NoPox will turn water cloudy but moreso is that not only will it make your skimmer go crazy but it will remove traces of iodine and various trace elements in which you will have to replenish them and also create excessive skimmate removing certain nutrients and even bottom them out.
Water change will reduce nitrate and restore the elements.
Never heard of carbon dosing removing trace or iodine. I’ll have to check into that. As for cloudy water. Just start with 1/4 to half the recommended. Has worked for me and cloudiness only lasted a day when I pushed the limits. Only once did o find fish gasping for air. Was odd because that dose was lower than I I’d experimented with in the past.

Don’t run a skimmer. System handles it just fine but I’ll check in my trace elements. Is that because of the excess skimmate being produced? Doesn’t seem logical it would be lost during denitrification
 

Lionfish hunter

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To the OP, dose seachem prime to give this eel some relief. Then dose turbo start, it works well at establishing bacteria to quickly cycle the tank. It will still take a week or 2 at least. Continue testing ammonia daily and add prime accordingly. Do water changes after a week or so to increase the primes effectiveness but give the bacteria some time to multiply before the water changes.

The eel looks bad, it could be too late but there is hope.
 

lion king

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Well, initial results show that somehow, my Nitrates are off the friggin charts, I'm redoing that because I honestly don't believe they're that high and I'm not experiencing a mass extinction... I just did a 33% water change a week ago, so I have no idea what's going on...

Ph: 8.1
Ammonia: .35
Nitrite: 0 (rock bottom... this concerns me)
Nitrate: >160 PPM (seriously, the vial went bright red in a minute. Redoing this currently)
Phosphate: 1-2
Calcium: 400

Sorry I did miss this for some reason, but as @Lionfish hunter mentioned the ammonia does have to be immediately addressed. If this does remedy the situation all the info I posted in this thread is a good guide to keeping eels long term. You can find my threads in the predatory forum if you are interested in nutrition for predatory fish including eels.
 

vetteguy53081

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Never heard of carbon dosing removing trace or iodine. I’ll have to check into that. As for cloudy water. Just start with 1/4 to half the recommended. Has worked for me and cloudiness only lasted a day when I pushed the limits. Only once did o find fish gasping for air. Was odd because that dose was lower than I I’d experimented with in the past.

Don’t run a skimmer. System handles it just fine but I’ll check in my trace elements. Is that because of the excess skimmate being produced? Doesn’t seem logical it would be lost during denitrification
gasping for air because Carbon dosing can also lower the amount of oxygen in your tank. This will in turn lower your PH and your alkalinity.
 

GARRIGA

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gasping for air because Carbon dosing can also lower the amount of oxygen in your tank. This will in turn lower your PH and your alkalinity.
I understand that. I’m just saying I only saw that issue once yet at a lower dose than previously tested.

As for Ph and alkalinity. I didn’t see any drop associated with the application as to PH. Didn’t bother testing alkalinity since that’s tested with nitrates and always reduced when nitrates rose. Why I prefer NoPox vs WC. Once nitrates are reduced the alkalinity naturally raises.
 

lion king

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curious - with the liver disease you've noticed - have you ever biopsied - had histology done?

I started dissecting fish 25 years ago to figure out how they were dying. We rarely used chemicals but as time went by just as with humans chemicals started being used more and more. Other hobbyist would bring me their fish to do a necropsy and time and time again, I found damaged internal organs, hemorrhages, decomp, even liquified. Over time it was easy to find the common theme of copper, antibiotics, tank cleaners, and pest eradicators. As my focus became more to lions I found damaged livers beyond all else, Suspected cyanide fish would usually have hemorrhages and blood in the internal cavity. Copper is the evilest of all, sometimes liquifying the liver.
 

GARRIGA

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NoPox will turn water cloudy but moreso is that not only will it make your skimmer go crazy but it will remove traces of iodine and various trace elements …
Please provide a source to this as I can’t find any and might explain why I’m struggling with coraline algae in a closed no WC system managed with denitrification assisted with carbon dosing.
 

Jeffcb

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I started dissecting fish 25 years ago to figure out how they were dying. We rarely used chemicals but as time went by just as with humans chemicals started being used more and more. Other hobbyist would bring me their fish to do a necropsy and time and time again, I found damaged internal organs, hemorrhages, decomp, even liquified. Over time it was easy to find the common theme of copper, antibiotics, tank cleaners, and pest eradicators. As my focus became more to lions I found damaged livers beyond all else, Suspected cyanide fish would usually have hemorrhages and blood in the internal cavity. Copper is the evilest of all, sometimes liquifying the liver.
100% agree.
 

vetteguy53081

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Please provide a source to this as I can’t find any and might explain why I’m struggling with coraline algae in a closed no WC system managed with denitrification assisted with carbon dosing.
 

GARRIGA

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That’s not what I asked for. I grasp the cause of cloudy water.

My question is as to this assumption it removes iodine and trace minerals. That I’ve never heard of and doesn’t sound logical since carbon fuels denitrification which I’m not aware of removing iodine or trace elements.

BTW, that article is incorrect in my experience. I do not run a protein skimmer nor do I conduct any WC. I do however have a large biological filter that supposedly performs denitrification based on past experiments.

Do you have a source for NoPox removing iodine and trace elements? Only carbon I know of that is assumed of doing that is the carbon used in items like GAC which isn’t the same carbon we dose to promote heterotrophic denitrification.
 
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Pazernaker

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How is that Eel doing?
Hey guys! Update time, sorry, it's been a really frantic 12 hours. First off, this has been one of my favorite discussions to follow on here, I just wish it wasn't because my eel was dying. Thank you everyone for all the help, but things are getting really weird again.

First and foremost, I'm using the standard API saltwater test kit with calcium and phosphate testing added. All tests are within 1 year of shelf life and I test the water about twice a week now running a log. Ammonia is usually lower than that .35, but my wife was feeding dry pellets and probably overfed while I was on a trip for 4-5 days. I figured the higher ammonia was her overfeeding my fish. She fed the eel on the schedule I gave her with tiny chunks of frozen shrimp. For those saying malnutrition, the shrimp isn't frozen brine, it's large grocery shrimps I keep a bag of, cut pieces off of, thaw out, then feed to him. One question I have is if she didn't thaw a shrimp chunk out completely and he ate one with a frozen core, could that lead to his death?

Regarding the fate of the eel, by the time I got home, he was dead. I felt around his throat to see if something was lodged in there, but couldn't find anything.

I'm questioning everything now, as I did a 21 gallon water change (20 gallons, then an extra gallon for what was thrown out of the protein skimmer when I cleaned it) and the Nitrate level went from turning bright red in less than a minute to almost 0 the day after I changed some water. No other fish in the tank are affected by whatever affected the eel and as a reminder to something I said earlier, he only started showing signs of not eating a day or two ago. His stomach was not impacted and I had a friend take a look at him to let me know what he thought the condition of the eel was and was told he was the proper weight/thickness for his age/length, so it wasn't underfeeding.

So now, I'm questioning my test kit, the use of chemiclean, and everything else in my tank...

I bought some activated charcoal (I believe it was seaclear brand) that was recommended by a LFS and a large mesh bag. Since I've been using the Magniflow 360 canister filter cartridge and the marine land brand charcoal pouches, I've never liked that they don't cover the entire shelf they sit on, so hopefully this gets better filtration? Other than that, I'm at a loss for what I should do other than just watch the tank and see what it does.
 

Bucs20fan

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Question, you are using a canister filter. Generally they aren't as bad as everyone makes them out to be as long as they are maintained. How long do you go in between cleaning it? I know were more towards the ammonia did the damage and I get that, just trying to help you achieve long term success. Canisters can be nitrate bombs if they aren't maintained regularly.

Im very sorry for the loss of your eel. Im very attached to mine as well and its a huge kick in the nuts when you lose an animal like that.
 
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Pazernaker

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Question, you are using a canister filter. Generally they aren't as bad as everyone makes them out to be as long as they are maintained. How long do you go in between cleaning it? I know were more towards the ammonia did the damage and I get that, just trying to help you achieve long term success. Canisters can be nitrate bombs if they aren't maintained regularly.

Im very sorry for the loss of your eel. Im very attached to mine as well and its a huge kick in the nuts when you lose an animal like that.
I tend to clean mine about once a month, though honestly, I'm not sure I'm even doing the cleaning correct. The process for me is as follows:

1) Shut the pump off, lock the plumbing and remove the hoses. Take the canister over to my deep kitchen sink to contain the mess.
2) Take the lid off and remove each section. My stack goes like this (and I'm running off memory): Bottom shelf is large pore foam, second shelf is activated charcoal bags, third shelf is those black carbon ball things, fourth shelf is the ceramic media with a floss filter on top of it.
3) This is the step a lot of people are going to jump right on. I use hot tap water on the large pore filter with a sprayer to get all the gunk out of it. My tap water is well water with a softener built in and in in line filter/bubbler for Radon (I live in NH, we have a lot of radon because of the granite rock). All heavy metals are also treated out of the system. I've tested it for metals and there's none registered, nor is there any fluoride, chlorine, or other things you get with town water. It's not RODI water, but I figured for spraying out a filter pad, it should be OK? Maybe?
4) Using the water in the canister from the tank, I dunk the ceramic media and the carbon ball things into the water to break loose all the junk on the outside of it (I don't even know what these are for, but I replaced them when I got the tank a few months ago, as well as half the ceramic media. I was yelled at for changing the ceramic media on this forum saying it's a marketing ploy and you should never have to change it).
5) I use my hand to break lose all the gunk on the inside of the canister filter lose and throw the water out.
6) Replace the shelves in the order they came out and change the floss filter out on the top shelf. Also, replace the activated charcoal bag, which I'm not using my own activated charcoal and a mesh bag that fits the entire shelf instead of using three small bags chucked in the shelf, which may or may not filter the water as it passed around/through them.
7) Throw it back under the tank, hook the hoses up, prime it, plug it in, and replace the water.

Am I doing this right? What, if anything, should I change out of this system to optimize it?
 
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