So I am considering starting a QUALITY reef store...

[Paul B]

Most of the true QT vendors I know are doing it down in their basement or garage. Fighting the good fight, and trying to figure out how to make it profitable enough to take it to the next level.

Exactly my point! There are no facilities that have a stock of clean fish.

This is true but we have to realize that virtually all the fish in the sea carry parasites on them and in them. They are supposed to.
It's not the sellers fault, it is what it is.

I don't think it is the sellers fault if the fish carries parasites. But if we let our fish die from those parasites, it's our fault. No one else.
When that fish leaves the store and we remove it from whatever the store owner is medicating those fish with, the parasites will show up.

Yes, the store could try to quarantine the fish for 74 days or whatever the secret number is today, but I have known quite a few LFS owners and with no exception they are all out of business now and none of them seemed very wealthy to me, just the opposite.

It is a business that always has a very hard time staying in business especially with all the loses. Just go to a LFS when they receive their fish and notice all the dead or almost dead ones.

Then go there as soon as they open, before they remove all the dead fish. There is very little profit in this business as I am sure my good friend Bobby will attest to.

If you are on a limited budget are you going to buy your family food or get a Naso tang?

Fish at the source are very cheap, almost free. I have been to many places as they collect fish. In those places many of those fish are also sold as food. I have seen lookdowns and tangs selling for 25 cents a pound for food. Moray eels were 10 cents.

It's the storage facilities and shipping that eats up the profits along with the electricity. To heat bunch of tanks in a "small" LFS with a 100 watt heater in every tank is very expensive. (about $1,000.00 a month just for 60 heaters without pumps lights etc.) And if that Purple tang, or the entire shipment that he paid $10.00 each for dies, he has to sell quite a few of them to make that up.

I take my own responsibility and keep my own fish healthy and they all are. I personally would never blame a store owner if my fish dies, it is my fault. These are living creatures and prone to dying just as we are and I look at the fish before I buy it.

WE all have our methods, but if we are killing fish, we should seriously think about changing our methods or doing something else, maybe demonstrating leaf blowers in Home Depot parking lot.

No fish should ever die from disease and I find that totally unacceptable.

I also would personally pay extra to get fish right from the wholesaler with no quarantine as I feel I can take care of the fish much better than a store who is not there to make me happy, but to feed his family.

When I have time I do go to stores as they get the fish in and buy them right out of the shipping box as they are being acclimated before they put them in their tanks.
I am not worried about disease (I figured that out many years ago and my fish never get sick)
But I want the fish eating right away something that I feel is close to what they were eating in the sea.

I also don't want them, not for a minute in a bare store tank with medication. That alone is the biggest stressor for the fish, even worse than shipping because in a shipping container it is pitch dark and they don't have to look at us, especially the few of us with tongue piercings.

Remember the fish can't see the glass, but they can see our ugly faces and not all of us look like Angelina Joile.

 

[Humblefish]

There is very little profit in this business as I am sure my good friend Bobby will attest to.

Unfortunately, the best money is in fish flipping. Meaning, you just sit behind a computer all day, and facilitate transactions between wholesalers and customers. You have no actual aquariums to deal with, and never see the fish before selling them. (Most online retailers operate this way nowadays.)

Then there's LFS and online vendors who actually have their own facility. They get in fish from wholesalers (or transship), and carry the burden/risk of DOAs, diseases, fish not eating, etc. They often employ a tool to help manage parasite populations (e.g. UV or some other means of filtering out the parasites), or use subtherapeutic copper to control them. Most LFS I know make most of their profits via maintenance accounts.

Lastly, there are a few vendors who actually QT/condition the fish before selling them. Very risky and not really profitable. You have to live on the West Coast so you can transship (cheaper fish), and even then you can get in a bad shipment.

 

[dantimdad]

I can tell you that, as a store owner (opening 3/14) don't plan on quitting your day job. Possibly ever.

My plan is to not draw a paycheck for 3 years and then only a small amount of profits.

You will work yourself half to death getting it built right and open and you better have a lot of RELIABLE help.

That being said, I still love what I am doing and waited 30 years after my first thoughts of it to finally pull the trigger and do it.

Figure your costs and add at least 50%. Find way more suppliers than you will ever need. Do all the financial leg work FIRST! I didn't and it's biting me in the behind. We will open but by the skin of our teeth.

I have a great support group and family helping me through this. I have business partners who put up with my rants and plan changes and flights of fancy. I also have a huge knowledge pool available to me 24/7. If you don't have all of these things, please don't start until you do.

 

[dantimdad]

OH! One more thing: start from the floor up with construction. Trust me on this!

Again, I didn't and we wound up having to change plans and it is really a difficult thing to do.

 

[Zan's Aquatica]

focus on the oceans ecosystem, minimalism and long term success, not solve your customer problems by selling them more expensive equipment but instead focusing on bringing their system to a natural balance. not selling fish or livestock to a customer you can clearly see isn’t ready/whose tank isn’t established enough and instead educating them and teaching them responsibility, patience, and long term success .

i’ve been in fish stores before and witness people just being allowed to buy whatever livestock they think is pretty, i can see the owner notices their naiveness and still makes the sale. i hate it.

 

[Humblefish]

I can tell you that, as a store owner (opening 3/14) don't plan on quitting your day job.

Where in N Alabama? I pass thru there (I-65) sometimes.

 

[reeferKen]

Where in N Alabama? I pass thru there (I-65) sometimes.

His links are under his post.

 

[dantimdad]

Where in N Alabama? I pass thru there (I-65) sometimes.

Exit 328 turn west go 1.2 miles. Store is on your right.

107 E. Main St.
Hartselle, Al. 35640

 

[Humblefish]

Exit 328 turn west go 1.2 miles. Store is on your right.

107 E. Main St.
Hartselle, Al. 35640

Will check it out next time I'm passing through.

 

[Reefs and Geeks]

I'm getting into fragging and selling coral myself, but not with a clear intention of opening a store or replacing my day job. I really enjoy the hobby, but an terrified of the thought that paying my bills and feeding my kids would be dependent on how many frags I can sell. As a side hussle, you could make enough money to pay for the hobby, plus extra to either put back in by expanding your coral collection or number of tanks, or can take the extra money and use it to pay bills, take the family on a vacation, put it in savings...etc.

As a side hussle that isn't relied upon for your well being, it's great. As a full time job with a store front and overhead and a sole source of your income...well that's an entirely different story. Not that It cant' be done, but is much more difficult to achieve and much more risk. As a store, you are dependant on your profitability, and if you're not selling enough, you'd be forced to cut costs to stay afloat, which would likely impact the quality of your store, and put you in a downward spiral to shutting down.

Really not trying to be a debby downer, rather would strongly suggest starting small scale out of your garage and keep track of all of your reef costs and revenue to see how much you'd really need to do to quit your dayjob. Keep in mind the expanding cost of setting up more tanks, risk of a tank crash, slow months for sales, increased utility costs...etc. If you get to the point that you want to make the plung, than all of the power to you.

All of that said...totally unrelated to reefing, if you're not happy in your current job, perhaps look elsewhere for something different? If it's the job or people you don't like, perhaps a different accounting company would be better. If you're just burnt out on accounting in general, that's obviously a tough call. Best of luck to you in finding happiness in your work. It is achievable. I'm lucking that I have a job I love that supports me and my family.

 

[fermentedhiker]

This is an idea that has been rolling around my head for awhile as well. Not exactly the same, as I'm thinking mostly a coral farm selling online to have an enjoyable supplemental income when I hopefully get to retire. The costs are intimidating as I crunch the numbers. I have an outbuilding I was planning on using. I figured it run me close to 20k to remodel it by the time you add in heat, plumbing, back up generator, heat recovery unit, dehumidifier etc... That's just to get the building ship shape. I figure I have room for 8 troughs 8x3x1 so I could have redundant systems. Just 8 troughs will run me over 4k. . Still have to build the dumps and get all the associated equipment. All before making a dime. I still might do it by chipping away at the obstacles 1 by 1 but it can certainly seem overwhelming.

 

[dantimdad]

Will check it out next time I'm passing through.

Would be my honor and pleasure for you to visit.

 

[Biokabe]

There are lots of ways you can develop a job in the industry without opening up an LFS, but I personally wouldn't open an LFS unless I really knew what I was doing. More important than the fish side of things is the reality of running a retail business, which is one of the more difficult things you can do.

Notably, you'll have to juggle the following things:

a) Employee management
b) Health insurance
c) Setting salaries appropriately
d) Facility selection
e) Facility maintenance
f) Asset protection
g) Product selection
h) Merchandizing
i) Pricing
j) Advertizing
k) Salesmanship
l) Customer Service
m) Loss prevention
n) Balancing the books
o) Taxes
p) Legal compliance
q) Probably 20-30 other things I'm forgetting about.

I'm a wholesale B2B salesman, so I've interacted with a huge number of different businesses, from garage shops to megasites that compete with Amazon in their segment. So I've seen the ones who succeed, and I've seen the ones that fail. Just in terms of overall business, what I've found to be the most telling signals - what differentiates the successes from the failures - is a (employee management), g (product selection), j (advertizing) and l (customer service). But there's one other thing that didn't make my list that is absolutely critical in today's market: Why? Which is to say, why should they shop with you instead of with someone else?

The businesses that fail are those that don't address (or don't come up with a compelling answer to) that question. A local store is no longer a necessity; if all you want is to bring in products and sell them, online vendors can do that better, faster and cheaper than you. So you need to make sure your shop addresses that "why".

But if you just want a job in the reefing industry, there are plenty of other ways to go about that:

1) Become a collector.
You'll need a scuba cert, probably some licenses from whatever local area you're working with... and you'll need to move, unless you get into highly lucrative markets like pepperminet angelfish. This is probably not a realistic option. =)

2) Work for a wholesaler. Wholesale jobs get overlooked in almost every industry, but they're the lifeblood of the industry and working in wholesale gets you involved with almost every facet of the industry. The downside is that there are a limited number of these jobs, you'll undoubtedly have to move to wherever they're located, and actually finding the names of the wholesalers can be a bit of a challenge to even see if they're hiring.

3) Become a supplier. Learn how to successfully raise an in-demand species. Berghia nudibranches, boutique corals, or designer clownfish, for example. Once you have a stable broodstock, begin selling online and make arrangements with your LFS to provide them with supply. Make sure you do this officially, with legal paperwork and payments, rather than simply bringing things in for store credit. You'll get better prices and have more bargaining power than if you simply beg them to take something from you. This is honestly one of the more realistic options and one that allows you to slowly scale up as you have success.

4) Become a reef blogger/influencer. There is serious money to be made on social media. However, reefing is a relatively small niche, and there are already established personalities to contend with. Still, if you can provide good information, have a beautiful tank, and are comfortable in front of the camera, you can build an audience large enough to get monetized. Realistically, though, unless you're good at self-promotion I doubt you'd get enough traction to even bring in a meaningful amount of cash.

 

[Spiffy]

Please move to DFW and start a quality store. Everything here is less than adequate. HELP!

;Vomit

 

[Js.Aqua.Project]

Exit 328 turn west go 1.2 miles. Store is on your right.

107 E. Main St.
Hartselle, Al. 35640

Holy crap, a fish store in Hartselle?!

My wife lived in Hartselle for 5 years when we dated long distance, never quite saw Hartselle as LFS territory myself but if we drive up to visit her cousin (Vet who owns Family Pet Health Care in Decatur) we will make sure to stop in.

 

[dantimdad]

Holy crap, a fish store in Hartselle?!

My wife lived in Hartselle for 5 years when we dated long distance, never quite saw Hartselle as LFS territory myself but if we drive up to visited her cousin (Vet who owns Family Pet Health Care in Decatur) we will make sure to stop in.

I look forward to meeting you!

It's not that Hartselle is a hot spot for aquariums, but, the surrounding area is and the response has been fantastic.

 

[dantimdad]

Please move to DFW and start a quality store. Everything here is less than adequate. HELP!

;Vomit

When we go national. HAHAHAHA!

 

[ccombs]

As someone who has started multiple businesses, I say go for it if you really want it. It will be hard, you will probably fail, but no one has ever made a difference by doing something easy. Just note that when you turn something you love into a business, you will love it less and less everyday. My main business right now started in high school with what was a hobby at the time. Don't get me wrong, I still enjoy it, but to quote B.B. King, 'The Thrill Is Gone.'

Edit- I did not say that you will probably fail as anything personal, but it is a fact that many businesses do, in fact, fail.

 

[Js.Aqua.Project]

OP, having worked a fish store for 2 1/2 years (with my wife managing it for 1 1/2 of those years after the owner divorced and moved away), you need to be prepared for a lot of frustration.

You will be frustrated with the fish - who you need to have a plan to be proactive about disease prevention and treatment. We ended up using Paraguard as our go-to medication/dip. But adding a UV sterilizer would also be a good idea.

You will be frustrated with the plumbing - this frustration can be eased by visiting numerous stores and seeing their layouts and how they plumbed systems. As previously stated, connecting tanks together will help minimize equipment (and heating/cooling costs) but make sure to keep what you need accessible. One of our biggest issues was the owner's husband did all of the original plumbing work and there were ball valves that we couldn't turn because he put it right up against a board, so if that tank leaked (luckily it didn't) we would have had no simple way to take it out of that system.

You will be frustrated with the customers - here is a big one. You have to be customer oriented, every single person that walks through the door needs to feel like you are excited to see them. Which is really hard when you see a customer walking across the parking lot who you know is going to tie you up for 2-3 hours and then go buy everything online (insanely frustrating). But on the other side of this, you will get to meet some amazing people - we closed our store a little over a year ago due to my wife's car being broken into and then my truck being stolen a couple weeks later - that we are still friends with.

My recommendations for you if opening a store is what you want to do:

1- Be prepared to make no money the first 2 years the store is open - hopefully you will, but be prepared to take a loss the first year, break even the second, and make money 3+
2- Design, design, design - lay out what you are thinking with tape/boxes and see if you will have enough space to move/work with others in the area with you, where will you be able to dispose of saltwater, can you set up ATOs connected to a single reservoir so you aren't manually topping off, are floor drains a possibility, etc
2a - Location, Location, Location - Make sure you spend time scouting out where it is going to go, look for areas with high amounts of disposable income that are lacking in LFS competition
3 - Get a controller(s) - this is something we added afterwards in the form of an Apex. (Going back to design and plumbing) Temp probes and leak detectors will help save you when there is a pending catastrophe. If your layout permits, you may only need one brain unit with modules splitting off to other systems.
3a - RO Auto shut off - Make sure your RO system (which will need to be large for a store) has a auto shut off system, which will save you from the 3am "did the RO get turned off?" trip to thesstore.
3b - Humidity control - a whole building dehumidifier would be great, they connect to the AC system and sure beat emptying a stand alone system 3-4 times a day
4 - You will need a good display tank - used for showing that you know what you are doing and can help reassure customers when they are taking your advice
5 - Don't recommend a product that you don't have experience with - we had other LFSs near us that would recommend products but not be able to help the customer when they had a problem
6 - Have a maintenance division/department/service - this helps bring in consistent money while allowing you as a store to educate your clientele about their tanks (and potentially directing some extra funds back to your store)
7 - Have an aquactulture room - being able to make your own frags will save you a lot of overhead costs, not saying you have to go WWC, Living Reef Orlando, or Top Shelf level of grow out and naming, just that being able to buy a colony of zoas and get 15-20 frags off of it a month to sell will help you in the long run
8 - Find a way to keep it fun - this is coming from a guy who played guitar as a hobby and is now a full time guitar teacher at a high school and was a reef hobbyist who spend years working a fish store. When it is no longer fun for you, your customers will be able to tell and not spend as long in your store which then lowers the amount of things they see which lowers their percentage of buying more items.

Note:
If you can afford it, build from the ground up. If this is an option, maybe build a split plaza and put a Tax office in one part and the store for the rest - take advantage of the money maker to help cover the rent/mortgage/utilities while the store gets up and running.

 

[dantimdad]

The part about it being easy to spot if you don't enjoy it is for real.

I visited an LFS while on my honeymoon. The owner seemed depressed and agitated to be there. When asked he said he wished he would never have opened the store. He said he spent way too many hours there and didn't even own an aquarium in his home anymore.

I felt bad for him in a way, but, you make your bed in my opinion.