So who else has 0 nutrients with TM AFR

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

@Hans-Werner, is one of the developers of AFR. Would like to see if he can share some info about this.

We already know. It has been discussed here many times.

Carbocalcium and pH

Can you link me to a study showing this, or explaining it? So far i have not found any data to show this occurring. OK, I'll try explaining again. You linked an earlier thread of mine where I discussed how acetate dosing lowers pH and why. That's a fine place to start. Formate is a smaller...

www.reef2reef.com

"is that the effect of calcium formate is "similar" to what you might see with calcium acetate. The difference is that the effect in both the carbon dosing aspect and the pH aspect is such a small fraction of what you will see from a calcium acetate addition, that it is mostly inconsequential. In fact, it will be so small, that it will even be difficult to detect at all.

The reason you are not finding a lot of studies or information about the interactions of calcium formate in reef tanks is because the technology is very new. We have certainly looked at this very carefully in our Tropic Marin laboratory, but we have not yet published papers about it. By the way, we are working on that too!"

 

[A Young Reefer]

We already know. It has been discussed here many times.

Carbocalcium and pH

Can you link me to a study showing this, or explaining it? So far i have not found any data to show this occurring. OK, I'll try explaining again. You linked an earlier thread of mine where I discussed how acetate dosing lowers pH and why. That's a fine place to start. Formate is a smaller...

www.reef2reef.com

"is that the effect of calcium formate is "similar" to what you might see with calcium acetate. The difference is that the effect in both the carbon dosing aspect and the pH aspect is such a small fraction of what you will see from a calcium acetate addition, that it is mostly inconsequential. In fact, it will be so small, that it will even be difficult to detect at all.

The reason you are not finding a lot of studies or information about the interactions of calcium formate in reef tanks is because the technology is very new. We have certainly looked at this very carefully in our Tropic Marin laboratory, but we have not yet published papers about it. By the way, we are working on that too!"

Thank you very much, I am relatively new on the forum and this is the first time I come across that thread. So can we say that it has a small effect in nutrients?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Thank you very much, I am relatively new on the forum and this is the first time I come across that thread. So can we say that it has a small effect in nutrients?

Small to none detectable is most likely, yes.

Regardless of the cause of low N and P, it is always desirable to have enough N and P to support coral growth, and to reduce the risk of dinos.

 

[A Young Reefer]

Small to none detectable is most likely, yes.

Regardless of the cause of low N and P, it is always desirable to have enough N and P to support coral growth, and to reduce the risk of dinos.

Totally agreed on the advantages of have enough nutrients. I just find it particularly interesting how I and other fellow hobbyists started having undetectable nutrients after dosing AFR. I don’t believe that it’s the cause but it leaves a question mark floating around. Thank you very much for the info you have shared.
apologies for any inconvenience caused.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Totally agreed on the advantages of have enough nutrients. I just find it particularly interesting how I and other fellow hobbyists started having undetectable nutrients after dosing AFR. I don’t believe that it’s the cause but it leaves a question mark floating around. Thank you very much for the info you have shared.
apologies for any inconvenience caused.

You're welcome, no problem.

The low N and P may be the cause from bacterial action on formate, or formate or more readily available alk may spur certain events inside corals to take up more N and P, or it may be coincidence.

More and more folks are finding low N and P these days, requiring dosing or heavier feeding.

 

[trevorhiller]

Proper dosing of N and P does not lead to problems, but if you are more comfortable with it, just feed more.

Ive been trying the increased feeding tip for the last 2 weeks or so and still haven’t been able to see a detectable level of Nitrates/Phosphates. I went from 1 to 2-3 feedings a day (depending how much I’m home). The bulk of the pellets I dump in just sink to the bottom of the tank- I’m sure the CUC loves it. I guess I’ll research what products can be used to dose them and see how that goes.

My main concern was dumping in “algae fertilizer” since I have a small amount of algae on my rocks at this point, I didn’t want to have it go nuclear on me from dosing, but if that’s not a concern I’m game to try it.

 

[minus9]

To the OP, your description of heavy feeding is what I would refer to as minimal feeding. I would feed multiple times a day with various foods, frozen (preferably something like LRS or Rods), flakes (cool green & cool mysis) and pellets (TDO or NLS). Heavy feeding to me is 4-6 times a day minimum. This doesn’t mean throw a bunch of food in, it means feed smaller portions throughout the day (if you can), but your export game should be on point though. The best source of N&P for your corals is fish waste. Plus, if it hasn’t been mentioned, if you see algae on the glass then you have plenty N&P or at least you’re not hitting actual zero.
If you’re running a skimmer, shut it off during the day.

 

[Hans-Werner]

As Randy has already pointed out the contribution of the organic "rest" in AFR to lowering nutrients is almost nil and usually makes not much difference to purely inorganic calcium and alkalinity supply.

Nevertheless you may notice an increased tendency to bottoming out nutrients compared to your previous two part calcium and alkalinity supply. This is not caused by AFR containing an organic calcium salt but by the trace elements in AFR.

Trace elements may act as growth limiting nutrients and in this way avoid a complete consumption of N and P by coral growth. With a balanced trace element supply this limitation is suspended and coral growth can further deplete N and P.

I have tried this several times and it seems to be an on - off effect in which trace element supply increases N and P consumption. This can be easily explained by Liebig's law of the minimum.