Some coral not opening....some doing great?

[JonoB]

Maybe not an emergency, but I'd love to figure this out. I had some issues with cyano and dosed chemiclean, took care of most of it. I followed the instructions and did a water change after. Tank looked great for about a day, then what I'm assuming is still cyano came back.

Corals like my elegance, acans, and montiporas are all doing great. However, my duncans have been closed for a week. My war coral looks like crap and my stylophora has awful PE. My parameters have been very steady for a long time, and I check weekly, sometimes even twice a week. I haven't had any major changes to my system EXCEPT the chemiclean AND I couldn't get Nitrates to register at all. I dosed some NeoNitro and got it up to like...2.5, andI did this pretty slowly.

My paremeters are currently (and have been for a while) :

Alk - 9.4
Calcium - 430
Magnesium - 1350
Temp 78.3
Salinity - 1.026
Phos - .04
Nitrate - 2.5

I kept a close eye on it and thought I would just wait it out, but it's been a while so I'm starting to worry. I'll get some pictures posted soon, i had some but they are way too blue.

 

[ShadowReef]

Maybe not an emergency, but I'd love to figure this out. I had some issues with cyano and dosed chemiclean, took care of most of it. I followed the instructions and did a water change after. Tank looked great for about a day, then what I'm assuming is still cyano came back.

Corals like my elegance, acans, and montiporas are all doing great. However, my duncans have been closed for a week. My war coral looks like crap and my stylophora has awful PE. My parameters have been very steady for a long time, and I check weekly, sometimes even twice a week. I haven't had any major changes to my system EXCEPT the chemiclean AND I couldn't get Nitrates to register at all. I dosed some NeoNitro and got it up to like...2.5, andI did this pretty slowly.

My paremeters are currently (and have been for a while) :

Alk - 9.4
Calcium - 430
Magnesium - 1350
Temp 78.3
Salinity - 1.026
Phos - .04
Nitrate - 2.5

I kept a close eye on it and thought I would just wait it out, but it's been a while so I'm starting to worry. I'll get some pictures posted soon, i had some but they are way too blue.

Parameters seem ok, alk a little high but not an issue if its stable and not swinging up and down. Which leaves maybe 3 or 4 other factors. Light, flow, irritant (another coral, fish, invert, pest bothering it) or possibly but unlikely (if its not most the corals) some sort of contaminant. Do you have any pics? Can you tell us about the positions in the tank, any critters/fish, flow situation etc.?

 

[JonoB]

It's a 60 gallon cube, with a Icecap 1k gyre and 2 koralia nanos. Light is a hydra 26. This "variation" of the tank has been up since Feb, but all the rock and corals, fish, and light all moved from a previous tank that leaked. Lighting and flow hasn't been an issue before....so I wouldn't THINK it would just all of the sudden be a problem? But maybe?

My stocking is 2 clowns, a spotted mandarin, anthias, and a red solon fairy wrasse. 2 hermits, cleaner shrimp and some snails.

I've never seen anything picking at the corals but doesn't always mean they aren't.

I also wondered if there was some sort of contaminant, I put some carbon in there to maybe help with that.

Here's what's on the bottom, more cyano or dinos?

 

[ahiggins]

Looks like dinos to me.
People say there can be green cyano but ive never seen/come across it.
your phos readings-what unit are you measuring? 0.04 what?
Dinos/cyano show up and start to get out of control when they arent being out-competed for things=when your nitrate and phosphates are out of whack. Like if you have 0phos and 0nitrate or some nitrate 0phos or vice versa.
IF it is dinos, i had really good results with dosing phos up to ~30 ppb and adding algae barns 5k pods with their phyto for about a month. Still have a decent bit of pods but the dinos are gone. IMO dinos are the hardest to get rid of because its the symptom of an issue and you cant get rid of them till you fix the original issue.

 

[JonoB]

Would dinos cause all the coral to be closed like they are?

.04 ppm for the Phos, using the Hanna Checker.

 

[MERKEY]

Just a suggestion but my frogs, hammers, Duncan's liked it lower on the bed of the tank with a little less flow.

This does not help with the algea sorry.

 

[ahiggins]

40 ppb is pretty decent, i dose to 35 and i try to keep nitrates above 0 so thats probably not your issue unless your hair algae is skewing those readings (ie absorbing nutrients before you get a good read).

Dinos/cyano/diatoms can absolutely cause corals to close. Ive noticed it more with zoa/palys that they stay closed but any small polyp-y thing could be affected by it like sps and small acan heads (growers). Definitely more detrimental to zoa/paly though as it will literally melt them if you dont keep them clean and address asap. Have you ever added pods? tbh, that was the best thing i did for my tanks.

 

[JonoB]

Just a suggestion but my frogs, hammers, Duncan's liked it lower on the bed of the tank with a little less flow.

This does not help with the algea sorry.

No need to be sorry! I appreciate any input! I would try lowering them, but I don't think the problem is the flow. They have been in that exact spot for months and months and have done amazing....until whatever this problem is I'm having now.

 

[ahiggins]

my bets on the dinos.
mine went away after the pods/phyto and raising phos to 35 ppb but i also had this in a brand spanking new tank with dry everything so i didnt have nutrients tied up, i had no nutrients lol nothing to out compete the little boogers.

Im surprised you raised your nitrates...even at zero, you had some because your algae is growing. so you do have nitrates (before dosing) but the algae was eating them up. this is what i referred to as symptom vs cause. Cause may have been the out of whack nutrient ratio but until you address the algae eating up your nutrients, it can all happen again. Thats "perfect case" scenario.

 

[JonoB]

40 ppb is pretty decent, i dose to 35 and i try to keep nitrates above 0 so thats probably not your issue unless your hair algae is skewing those readings (ie absorbing nutrients before you get a good read).

Dinos/cyano/diatoms can absolutely cause corals to close. Ive noticed it more with zoa/palys that they stay closed but any small polyp-y thing could be affected by it like sps and small acan heads (growers). Definitely more detrimental to zoa/paly though as it will literally melt them if you dont keep them clean and address asap. Have you ever added pods? tbh, that was the best thing i did for my tanks.

I'll re-test everything today on my lunch break. Luckily I work close to home so I can keep an eye on stuff easily.

I have added pods twice.

 

[ScottB]

I am mostly SPS but my Duncan's are the canary in my (coal mine) fish tank. When they retract, something is off and I better figure it out pronto before the acros get wind of the problem. I believe you stated it retracted in reaction to the Chemiclean dosing. I have no personal experience with Chemiclean as I don't understand what is in it and the potential interactions.

Question: that stuff on the sand bed. Is that what you believe to be cyano? Or did it come after the Chemiclean?

My suggestions:
a) keep running GAC carbon
b) maybe add a poly filter too
c) ensure enhanced gas exchange if possible. Skimmer on, powerheads disturbing the surface, etc
d) That stuff on the sand LOOKS like dinos to me. Is it trapping bubbles? Growing on rocks too? Does it "bloom" more during your light cycle? If so, I would get a sample under a microscope to determine if it is and which it is. I bought this one but you can get $25 ones that will do fine.

e) You certainly HAD nutrient in the tank supporting that algae growth. If that is dinos, they are going to start sucking it down. As they kill off your algae, that will increase nutrient that will fuel further dino growth.
f) If you have a UV (rated at 1 watt per 3 gallons) fire that thing up pronto. Most of the common dinos release into the water column at night and will get cooked by the UV over time. Most dinos release toxins.
g) If you said "yes" to questions in "d", then please accept my condolences and head on over to: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/dinoflagellates-–-are-you-tired-of-battling-altogether.293318/

Anecdotally-- and this may be skewing my suggestions-- I seem to hear often about dinos after "treating cyano". It would be a lot to unpack that, but it feels like a very common pattern.

Wishing you the best (and no dinos)!

 

[C. Eymann]

It's a 60 gallon cube, with a Icecap 1k gyre and 2 koralia nanos. Light is a hydra 26. This "variation" of the tank has been up since Feb, but all the rock and corals, fish, and light all moved from a previous tank that leaked. Lighting and flow hasn't been an issue before....so I wouldn't THINK it would just all of the sudden be a problem? But maybe?

My stocking is 2 clowns, a spotted mandarin, anthias, and a red solon fairy wrasse. 2 hermits, cleaner shrimp and some snails.

I've never seen anything picking at the corals but doesn't always mean they aren't.

I also wondered if there was some sort of contaminant, I put some carbon in there to maybe help with that.

Here's what's on the bottom, more cyano or dinos?

I'm seeing a bunch vermintid snail tubes all over your rock, very possible that they could be irritating your coral enough in those areas they cast their mucus net and preventing corals to open up.

 

[C. Eymann]

Anyone else see these?

 

[JonoB]

Yeah there are definitely tons of vermetids. I clear them away but they just come back. Still think the main issue is the dinos but maybe the vermetids are to blame as well.

 

[JonoB]

I am mostly SPS but my Duncan's are the canary in my (coal mine) fish tank. When they retract, something is off and I better figure it out pronto before the acros get wind of the problem. I believe you stated it retracted in reaction to the Chemiclean dosing. I have no personal experience with Chemiclean as I don't understand what is in it and the potential interactions.

Question: that stuff on the sand bed. Is that what you believe to be cyano? Or did it come after the Chemiclean?

My suggestions:
a) keep running GAC carbon
b) maybe add a poly filter too
c) ensure enhanced gas exchange if possible. Skimmer on, powerheads disturbing the surface, etc
d) That stuff on the sand LOOKS like dinos to me. Is it trapping bubbles? Growing on rocks too? Does it "bloom" more during your light cycle? If so, I would get a sample under a microscope to determine if it is and which it is. I bought this one but you can get $25 ones that will do fine.

e) You certainly HAD nutrient in the tank supporting that algae growth. If that is dinos, they are going to start sucking it down. As they kill off your algae, that will increase nutrient that will fuel further dino growth.
f) If you have a UV (rated at 1 watt per 3 gallons) fire that thing up pronto. Most of the common dinos release into the water column at night and will get cooked by the UV over time. Most dinos release toxins.
g) If you said "yes" to questions in "d", then please accept my condolences and head on over to: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/dinoflagellates-–-are-you-tired-of-battling-altogether.293318/

Anecdotally-- and this may be skewing my suggestions-- I seem to hear often about dinos after "treating cyano". It would be a lot to unpack that, but it feels like a very common pattern.

Wishing you the best (and no dinos)!

The stuff on the sand is what I thought was cyan but now believe is dinos. It came AFTER the Chemiclean, which I am reading more and more about happening. Which I think is probably revealing an issue other than causing it. I will follow your suggestions and try to get my hands on a microscope to confirm. It is NOT bubbling on the sand but there is some starting to cover the rocks and even some of my sps and there are bubbles on that. Pretty positive now. It's crazy how fast this all happened. I had almost NO GHA or other algae, then all of the sudden tons of cyano....then no cyan and all the dino/other algae popped up together all at once. My nutrients SEEMEd to be stable, but now my phos is at 0 and my nitrates also low, so I suppose I should fight to get those up and stay up?

 

[ScottB]

Sounds highly likely it is dinos. The first few pages of that dino thread lay out pretty well what you need to do.

Most (not all) dinos respond to UV. I like AquaUV. You need to run it in the display (not sump) for optimal contact, 1 watt for every three gallons of system volume. Pump at around 300gph.

During the outbreak, inorganic nutrient forms are preferred. I've used these:


Search this site for solution mixing and dosing instructions.

Ideally, you confirmation of dinos before spending the money. Your call.

Once I got my dosing / consumption figured out and had the UV up, it only took a week or so to kill off my (ostreopsis) dinos. I kept NO3 > 15 and PO4 around .1.