Something Is Killing Fish

[Rifken]

Good Morning,

I am typing with a heavy heart this morning because I have lost 5 fish in the past 5 days. I have relying on my local fish shop owner for advise until now but what he thinks doesn't sound right to me...

About two weeks ago I bought a smallish (3 inch) spiny box puffer from him. It had been in the tank for a few weeks by himself, looked healthy (and reportedly ate well) so I did not quarantine him. I added him to one of my 125 gallon tanks. It that has been a topic in a few other threads.

Anyway, he has not been a good eater. All he wants to eat was the freeze dried krill until last Tuesday when he stopped eating. He did not eat Wednesday either and I noticed his fins looked a little cloudy. The fish guy was coming to clean my tank Thursday so I decided to ask him to take a look. Never got the chance as the puffer was dead in the morning.

The other fish in the tank all looked and acted good.

Fish guy ended up not coming until Friday. I stopped by his shop after work to ask how everything looked and he told me the Clown Trigger (in that tank) was hiding and seemed stressed so he suggested I move him into my more peaceful tank. He also said while you do that you might move the Emperor Angel from that tank into the one the puffer was in.

I did as he suggested later that evening and I noticed the Clown Trigger has white spot and was splotchy looking. I called fish guy and he said that the fish is stressed and he really needs out of that tank so I did the swap. Saturday morning the Clown Trigger was dead.

Later Saturday I noticed the Red Tooth Trigger was hiding and I couldn't get a good look at him but his breathing seemed a bit rapid. Contacted fish guy and he say "he looked great yesterday" and "I wonder if I disturbed to much of the gravel bed when I cleaned yesterday". I said IDK, but I need help. Don't want to lose another fish. He replied "The tank is goo and it would cause more stress to try to move him. Try to take a pic or short video and send it" so I did. After seeing the video he said "looks like dust but he looks good otherwise". He sadi to dose the tank with Stress Coat, turn off the lights and let him relax so I did.

I asked him of this could be because the puffer released toxin in the water and he said no. I also noticed that all the fish were kinda laying low except for the Emperor Angel. I said maybe I should move him and fish guy said no. I tried to feed in the evening but only the lion fish ate. The Red Tooth did not come out of hiding and the other fish just swam around not eating.

Sunday morning the Red Tooth was still hiding and the Nasu Tang was in a corner. I said screw this and moved the Emperor into my 29 gallon QT hoping that after he was out the other fish would start acting right. That was not to be. I called fish guy and after a chat he came over. He looked at the fish, smelled the water, and tested the water. The Nitrate was reading 150 so he deiced that must be it and added some Prime to bring down the Nitrate level. After about 30 minutes the Nitrate had dropped to 100 and he thought the fish seemed better so he gace me instructions to keep checking the Nitrate level and re-dose again in 2 days (from the seachem site) if needed and he left.

This is the Nasu at 7p.m. He was dead at 8p.m. I saw the whole death swim

I said screw this **** and ran out to get more RO water. I already had 25 gallons mixed up and I got another 25 gallons. I let it all stabilize until 10:30 p.m. and changed out 50 gallons of water as a last ditch effort

This morning the Red Tooth was dead and remember the Emporer Angel that was fine in the other tank tank until fish guy said I needed to move him because he was being a bully in the other tank? Then maybe he was a bully in this tank so he got moved to the QT tank? Well he was dead too.

Here is the Red Tooth as I found him this morning. You can't really see it too well in the picture but he had a "film" on his side that had kinda "floaty tendrils" coming off from it

So here's what I have to say about the physical appearance of the fish. It would start looking almost like a dusting with a few white spots. (fish guy actually said he thought the fish had been digging) Just several hours later the fish would be looking cloudy and there was color loss with cloudy eyes. It seemed real fast, like maybe 12 hours from first noticing something wrong to "oh no, it's gonna die"

Fish guy has no idea. I was searching all over R2R and the internet and I am thinking maybe Brooklynella (Clownfish Disease). What are your thoughts?

I also need to figure out treatment for the tank and still living inhabitants. There is still a small (3 inch) Lionfish, a 3" Blue Velvet Damselfish and a 18" Snowflake Moray (that is very important to me)

I should note that I noticed rapid breathing with the Red Tooth Trigger and the Naso Tang. Did not see that with the Spiny Box Fish, Clown Trigger or Emperor Angel

Thank you,
-Bob

 

[Cell]

Rapid breathing, dusting and the quick deaths all point to velvet. More experienced help should arrive shortly and can confirm.

 

[Cell]

I wouldn't use Prime to reduce Nitrate, if it even does what it says in that regard. Nor would I trust a fish guy telling me anything definitive from a "sniff" test. It also seems your fish guy is not up to speed with disease treatment and prevention. Fish aren't dying from high nitrate.

 

[Pickle_soup]

We can't see the pictures, can you repost them please?

 

[Cell]

#fishmedic

 

[vetteguy53081]

Any other symptoms such as clamped fins, gasping at the surface, swimming in front of flow, etc?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Sorry - I thought I responded to this, and now I can't find it.

It certainly looks like a protozoan infection, either uncontrolled ich, or perhaps velvet. The eel being one of the fish left may be due to those being more resistant to ich.

At first I was thinking ich, but then I re-read your message....The rapid onset you described tends to make me think velvet, Amyloodinium. That is difficult to cure once fish losses have begun. The best treatment is coppersafe, in a quarantine tank, but a five minute FW dip can buy you some time.

Jay

 

[Rifken]

Clown the night before he passed

Naso hours before

Red Tooth as I found him dead in morning.

I found the Lionfish dead when I got home from work. Called my fish guy and asked him if he knew about diseases and he said yes. I said let's figure out what this is so we can treat for it and he said it's not a disease, just a nitrate spike from over cleaning. He thinks that because I vacuumed the gravel and changed out 20 gallons of water 2 weeks prior to him cleaning the tank Friday threw it way off... I said that I am worried about the fish in my other 125 to which he asked if I think it's gonna jump from tank to tank. I said no, you had me move the Clown trigger into that tank the night before he died. He said well he didn't take high nitrate over with him. I said but he took over... then I realized what he implied so I said I guess we'll know if it's high nitrate or a disease if the fish in the other tank get sick too. He said yep and I hung up. I am completely at a loss right now

Bob

 

[Cell]

Tried to tell you to replace this fish guy 6 months ago. He was not providing you with the proper expertise and care. A nitrate spike is not going to wipe your livestock. Disturbing a deep sandbed can be toxic due to the release of hydrogen sulfide, not a nitrate spike.

 

[Pickle_soup]

Is this a person that regularly cleans your tank? It's hard to tell from the picture of the clown, but it's definetely not sand like he suggested. You have a lot of big fish for a 125gal, they were probably stressed as it is. The fact that you vacuumed the sand is probably irrelevant unless you have a DSB and you went all crazy on it. To be honest, I think the guy is looking for scape goat.

 

[Rifken]

Yes sir you did but just like 6 months ago he us the only game In town. The only help I can get.

There were 7 fish I think
Clown trigger <3"
Red tooth trigger<4"
Naso Tang 3"
Damsel 2"
Lionfish <3"
Spiny box fish <3"
Snowflake moray 20" or so

I have a 260 they were going yo be moving into before Christmas

Not sure what a dsb is. I have an undergravel filter with powerheads. a cannister and a hob protein skimmer

New tank will be sump

 

[Gribbles]

DSB = Deep sand bed

 

[Rifken]

Any other symptoms such as clamped fins, gasping at the surface, swimming in front of flow, etc?

None of those. I've noticed they seem to retreat to a cave or corner of the tank. It seems to start with a few spots and the fins get milky looking. Then the spot seem to multiply but seem to only be on the upper half of the fish. The spots are small. Right about the same time they start to look like they have been dusted. A bit later their color seems to fade and become splotchy looking. Last symptom seems to be the rapid breathing

I'm really upset how the fish guy is helping (or not) me with this. Says he knows a lot about diseases but isn't willing to help me treat the fish because he insists they aren't diseased. So I hope that you all can help get me thru this.

I have a QT but it's a 29 gallon. I am worried that won't be big enough for the last two fish, the Damsel and the Snowflake. The other thing is can dip the Damsel and put him in the 29 gallon but I don't know about dipping/bathing the eel. I'm not sure what I would use as a container to dip him in. He will climb out of a 5 gallon bucket that has 8 inches of water in it... I also need to insure that if he does have to be dipped that the dip is safe for him. Is a hydrogen peroxide dip safe for moray?

I'm off to read the stickies about velvet one more time so I can get some meds headed to me. Even though it's rather late in the game, I am afraid of this happening to the other tank as well so I want to be ready

Thanks so much,
-Bob

 

[Gribbles]

Good luck Bob, keep us updated

 

[Reeflix]

I think it’s time for a new fish guy! He is not giving the proper advice for this situation! (If he is even giving advice!)

 

[Gill the 3rd]

This sounds like velvet to me. I have unfortunately experienced both ich and velvet in the past, not at the same time or same tank. The ich I could manage, the Velvet was way worse. To me the main indicator that its velvet is that your fish hide in a cave and avoid the light, and that they are passing away at such a fast rate. Are any of them swimming into the flow of your power heads? This is also a sign of velvet. You need to treat with copper in a qt tank.

You also need to ditch the fish guy, he doesn't know what he is talking about blaming this on high nitrates or a disturbed sand bed. Sounds like he is trying to lay the blame on someone else.

Sorry to hear about the losses, I have been in this situation and it really sucks.

 

[Rifken]

So I saw the Damsel was looking "filmy" this morning, meaning that he is normally gloss black with neon blue stripes down his sides. His color looked more pastelish and cloudy.

I can do a freshwater dip with him. I didn't realize this is the go-to until just this morning. I thought I needed some specialized med to get going which is why I called the fish guy last night.

So after the freshwater dip I understand he should get a bath. I can get the stuff for a peroxide bath or my lfs does have Ich-X marine. Which would be better?

After the bath I can put him in the 29G QT. All I have available to me is coppersafe. I've been reading it's not the go to but hopefully that will help out Elvis.

Still have no idea of what to do about Frosty the Snowflake. I need ideas for him please please.

-Bob

 

[Gill the 3rd]

So I actually had (still have) a snowflake eel when I had velvet in my tank. I treated all my fish with copper in a qt except for the eel. I used the Hybrid Tank Transfer Method from the humble.fish forum. I would check out that forum as well, they like to use peroxide baths. This method worked well for me.

The issue you are going to have is doing the tank transfer method with an 18" eel.

 

[Reeflix]

Humblefish posted a list awhile ago about what fish he had put through hydrogen peroxide dips and snowflake eels were one of them, I don’t keep eels so I’m not an expert on this.

 

[Gill the 3rd]

I put my snowflake eel through 30 minute peroxide dips and he didn't have any issues.