Spots on gem tang

[newreef1]

Hey guys,
I’m adding these pics to make sure my gem tang is ok. I know it has stress spots which I’ll see every now and then but it’s more like a sideways v pattern. I see these larger white spots on it which I’m wondering what it is. It’s eating and swimming fine, I don’t know if it’s just me but I might see it twitch every now and then (or maybe it’s just swimming). My ammonia in the tank is at .25 and my nitrates have always been high (literally no possible way to lower them). The spots aren’t protruding but I think they’re in the skin? I just want to make sure the fish is healthy. Please take a look some are fuzzy because it was swimming a bit fast. Thank you in advance!

 

[vetteguy53081]

Hey guys,
I’m adding these pics to make sure my gem tang is ok. I know it has stress spots which I’ll see every now and then but it’s more like a sideways v pattern. I see these larger white spots on it which I’m wondering what it is. It’s eating and swimming fine, I don’t know if it’s just me but I might see it twitch every now and then (or maybe it’s just swimming). My ammonia in the tank is at .25 and my nitrates have always been high (literally no possible way to lower them). The spots aren’t protruding but I think they’re in the skin? I just want to make sure the fish is healthy. Please take a look some are fuzzy because it was swimming a bit fast. Thank you in advance!

I see stress marks (faint circles) and what looks like rash from sharp objects such as skeleton I see in the picture. Tangs squabble and tangs startle easily which may be the case. While this should heal on its own, keep an eye on it for development of infection. I see orange shoulder and naso and observe to assure they are not fighting or even bullying the fish.

 

[newreef1]

I see stress marks (faint circles) and what looks like rash from sharp objects such as skeleton I see in the picture. Tangs squabble and tangs startle easily which may be the case. While this should heal on its own, keep an eye on it for development of infection. I see orange shoulder and naso and observe to assure they are not fighting or even bullying the fish.

For the most part the gem stays in its cave and swims around alone, if anything I’ve seen the gem tang bully my fox face and the naso when they got too close to the cave. Should I dose the tank with prazi? Or would getting a UV help with this? I’ll be doing a WC sometime Sunday or Monday? But I just want to make sure the fish is ok? The spots are no concern?

 

[vetteguy53081]

For the most part the gem stays in its cave and swims around alone, if anything I’ve seen the gem tang bully my fox face and the naso when they got too close to the cave. Should I dose the tank with prazi? Or would getting a UV help with this? I’ll be doing a WC sometime Sunday or Monday? But I just want to make sure the fish is ok? The spots are no concern?

UV will help with protozoan and algae - not this and Prazi is a dewormer for worms and flukes.
You can use Ruby Rally Pro safely which is a broad spectrum treatment and is reef safe. It will temporarily tint the water yellwo/green

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I see stress marks, but then the question is, why?

Could be interspecific aggression, but it could also be flukes.
What is the history of the tank and the fish?
How long have you had it?
Have you treated the tank for flukes?

Jay

 

[newreef1]

I see stress marks, but then the question is, why?

Could be interspecific aggression, but it could also be flukes.
What is the history of the tank and the fish?
How long have you had it?
Have you treated the tank for flukes?

Jay

No I have not treated the tank for flukes ever. I did treat the tank with copper a while back due to an Ich outbreak. WC, and removed the sand so only have the rock from the copper treatment. Last tested I had .52 copper in the tank remaining, added a new cuprisorb packet yesterday and have chemipure and chemipure blue. Should I dose the DT with prazi for flukes or the reef rally pro? What would be safer to dose in the DT with all the other fish? If I have to I’ll remove the gem, but really don’t want to stress it out even more or the other fish for that matter, I’d rather dose the DT if better?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

No I have not treated the tank for flukes ever. I did treat the tank with copper a while back due to an Ich outbreak. WC, and removed the sand so only have the rock from the copper treatment. Last tested I had .52 copper in the tank remaining, added a new cuprisorb packet yesterday and have chemipure and chemipure blue. Should I dose the DT with prazi for flukes or the reef rally pro? What would be safer to dose in the DT with all the other fish? If I have to I’ll remove the gem, but really don’t want to stress it out even more or the other fish for that matter, I’d rather dose the DT if better?

I strongly prefer praziquantel over Ruby Reef Rally Pro for flukes.

You can dose your DT with Prazipro, when done properly, it is safe for fish and invertebrates (clams may retract a bit during treatment, there are rare reports of feather duster worms being harmed). The dose works like this: Remove all chemical filtrants like carbon. Add an extra air stone to the tank. Run any protein skimmers, but don't collect the skimmate. Add a full dose of Prazipro to the net volume of the tank (usually about 85% of the "rated" tank volume). Wait 8 days, change 25% of the water and redose. Praziquantel breaks down in about 72 hours, the water change is just to reduce nutrients leftover from that.

Jay

 

[newreef1]

I strongly prefer praziquantel over Ruby Reef Rally Pro for flukes.

You can dose your DT with Prazipro, when done properly, it is safe for fish and invertebrates (clams may retract a bit during treatment, there are rare reports of feather duster worms being harmed). The dose works like this: Remove all chemical filtrants like carbon. Add an extra air stone to the tank. Run any protein skimmers, but don't collect the skimmate. Add a full dose of Prazipro to the net volume of the tank (usually about 85% of the "rated" tank volume). Wait 8 days, change 25% of the water and redose. Praziquantel breaks down in about 72 hours, the water change is just to reduce nutrients leftover from that.

Jay

Ok I will order prazi and let you guys know. So I’ll remove the carbon, chemipure, turn on the skimmer (what do you mean by don’t collect the skimmate? Just remove the collection cup and let the skimmer bubble for O2?) dose the tank, do WC after 8 days, redose, another WC after 8 days? I have two mp40s on each side of tank and 2redsea gyre wavemakers? I should still add the air stone?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Ok I will order prazi and let you guys know. So I’ll remove the carbon, chemipure, turn on the skimmer (what do you mean by don’t collect the skimmate? Just remove the collection cup and let the skimmer bubble for O2?) dose the tank, do WC after 8 days, redose, another WC after 8 days? I have two mp40s on each side of tank and 2redsea gyre wavemakers? I should still add the air stone?

Yes - just let the skimmer bubble back into the tank, not into the cup. That way, you get the extra aeration from the skimmer activity without the skimmer capturing any of the praziquantel particles.
I always use an air stone with prazi, water circulation, if it doesn't strongly break the water's surface, isn't enough. Virtually all of the "prazi reactions" seen is due to inadequate aeration when dosing it.

Jay

 

[newreef1]

Yes - just let the skimmer bubble back into the tank, not into the cup. That way, you get the extra aeration from the skimmer activity without the skimmer capturing any of the praziquantel particles.
I always use an air stone with prazi, water circulation, if it doesn't strongly break the water's surface, isn't enough. Virtually all of the "prazi reactions" seen is due to inadequate aeration when dosing it.

Jay

I understand it’s better to throw in the air stone, I have extras so that’s good. I’ll order the prazi and probably start the treatment next week. Will keep you both updated. Thank you so much!

 

[newreef1]

I understand it’s better to throw in the air stone, I have extras so that’s good. I’ll order the prazi and probably start the treatment next week. Will keep you both updated. Thank you so much!

Just did a WC, turned on my skimmer (thank god it’s not crazy anymore) removed all carbon (just kept filter pads and socks) had to use marine buffer to bring ph up to 8.2. Ammonia is still testing for .25 ppm (ammonia sticker says 0, but not sure it’s very accurate) and nitrate also read high (unusually normal for my tank). Added an air stone disc, I wonder if one is enough? I still have mp40s and RedSea gyres running, should I add another air stone? I also have my skimmer running and overflowing for O2, dosed 50ml of prazi for my 200 tank. Would it be ok if I do a WC on Saturday (6 days) and then redose on Monday? I believe I did everything correctly but correct me if I’m wrong please. I saw some very little black spots on my pbt and put him in a freshwater dip and saw the flukes fall off (not gonna lie I kinda got excited because I saw that for the first time and the fact that I was able to identify it was exciting) so happy I decided to use prazi for the fish that have flukes and for those that don’t as a preventative measure.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Just did a WC, turned on my skimmer (thank god it’s not crazy anymore) removed all carbon (just kept filter pads and socks) had to use marine buffer to bring ph up to 8.2. Ammonia is still testing for .25 ppm (ammonia sticker says 0, but not sure it’s very accurate) and nitrate also read high (unusually normal for my tank). Added an air stone disc, I wonder if one is enough? I still have mp40s and RedSea gyres running, should I add another air stone? I also have my skimmer running and overflowing for O2, dosed 50ml of prazi for my 200 tank. Would it be ok if I do a WC on Saturday (6 days) and then redose on Monday? I believe I did everything correctly but correct me if I’m wrong please. I saw some very little black spots on my pbt and put him in a freshwater dip and saw the flukes fall off (not gonna lie I kinda got excited because I saw that for the first time and the fact that I was able to identify it was exciting) so happy I decided to use prazi for the fish that have flukes and for those that don’t as a preventative measure.

Yes , your dose schedule seems fine.

I would not buffer/raise the pH in a tank with trace ammonia in it- ammonia is much more toxic at a high pH. If the pH is above 7.8 and the tank has good aeration, don’t worry about the pH.

Jay

 

[newreef1]

Yes , your dose schedule seems fine.

I would not buffer/raise the pH in a tank with trace ammonia in it- ammonia is much more toxic at a high pH. If the pH is above 7.8 and the tank has good aeration, don’t worry about the pH.

Jay

Thank you so much! I won’t buffer the ph after my next WC, I still don’t have a very good idea about the importance of PH or what it should be with fish so wasn’t aware of that. Thanks again! I should dose with prazi twice or should I dose 3 times if I know a fish has flukes?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Thank you so much! I won’t buffer the ph after my next WC, I still don’t have a very good idea about the importance of PH or what it should be with fish so wasn’t aware of that. Thanks again! I should dose with prazi twice or should I dose 3 times if I know a fish has flukes?

Twice is the minimum, 3x is better, the problem is that some flukes lay eggs and prazi doesn’t kill the eggs. You need to try to space the prazi treatments out to kill new flukes that hatch, but before they can lay their own eggs - and the timing of that is tricky, and you may miss done.
Jay

 

[newreef1]

Twice is the minimum, 3x is better, the problem is that some flukes lay eggs and prazi doesn’t kill the eggs. You need to try to space the prazi treatments out to kill new flukes that hatch, but before they can lay their own eggs - and the timing of that is tricky, and you may miss done.
Jay

I’ll redose around Friday/Saturday for the second dose because I think it takes around 4-5 days for new eggs to hatch, assuming the flukes died yesterday and new eggs still remain, the second dose should kill the new hatched eggs and another dose 9-10 days after that to prevent any new eggs from being laid. And I guess I just have to watch for flukes in the future? Is there any harm if I dose prazi from time to time as a preventative measure in my DT? There’s no way the flukes develop immunity or anything like ICH can is there?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I’ll redose around Friday/Saturday for the second dose because I think it takes around 4-5 days for new eggs to hatch, assuming the flukes died yesterday and new eggs still remain, the second dose should kill the new hatched eggs and another dose 9-10 days after that to prevent any new eggs from being laid. And I guess I just have to watch for flukes in the future? Is there any harm if I dose prazi from time to time as a preventative measure in my DT? There’s no way the flukes develop immunity or anything like ICH can is there?

The flukes hatch within 4 or 5 days, but then there is the swimming stage, and some eggs take longer to hatch. I’ve been trying to refine the timing, but relative water temperature and species of fluke confound the issue. I used to suggest 9 days, but now think 8 is better.
You will read a lot about “prazi resistant flukes” - but they aren’t really resistant, here is what happens: each time you dose prazi, heterotrophic bacteria grows that feeds on it. The more often you dose, the more bacteria grows. The more bacteria, the faster the prazi is consumed. After about 5 treatments, the bacteria eats the prazi so fast that it stops working. This bacteria lives in tanks for quite some time, so periodic dosing of prazi becomes futile.
Jay

 

[newreef1]

The flukes hatch within 4 or 5 days, but then there is the swimming stage, and some eggs take longer to hatch. I’ve been trying to refine the timing, but relative water temperature and species of fluke confound the issue. I used to suggest 9 days, but now think 8 is better.
You will read a lot about “prazi resistant flukes” - but they aren’t really resistant, here is what happens: each time you dose prazi, heterotrophic bacteria grows that feeds on it. The more often you dose, the more bacteria grows. The more bacteria, the faster the prazi is consumed. After about 5 treatments, the bacteria eats the prazi so fast that it stops working. This bacteria lives in tanks for quite some time, so periodic dosing of prazi becomes futile.
Jay

Oh wow, thank you for the clear description. That’s probably why you suggested the 25% WC, to prevent the growth of and limit the amount of heterotrohic bactera to allow the prazi to work. Also sounds like if there’s too much of heterotrophic bacteria it could potentially limit the food source for autotrophic bacteria which I believe is our good bacteria?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Oh wow, thank you for the clear description. That’s probably why you suggested the 25% WC, to prevent the growth of and limit the amount of heterotrohic bactera to allow the prazi to work. Also sounds like if there’s too much of heterotrophic bacteria it could potentially limit the food source for autotrophic bacteria which I believe is our good bacteria?

I’m not positive, but I believe heterotrophs break down proteins and other organics which actually produce food for chemical autotrophs (nitrifying bacteria). My understanding is that the specific heterotrophs that break down prazi grow in response to it in the water.
Jay