SPS driving me crazy

sirreal · Mar 12, 2014

He tested his Refractometer with RO water. This works but the calibration fluid is better. You are missing something! Do you have any reefer friends? take a water sample to someone else and run every test they have. I have to ask you this only because I went through the same thing. Your water sorce. Do you know if your water sorce has chlorimines in it? Do you have the new style carbon block in your RO? Check with your water company and see if they are putting cloramines in the water. This happend to me and I did not know they changed from chlorine to chlorine chloramines and ammo. the normal carbon in your RO wont remove all the chloramines. I lost many SPS. I found the easy way to fix it is by just adding some chlorine, chlorramines and ammo remover to my RO water. Problem solved. I also added it right to my tank and the die off stoped.

Chameleon · Mar 13, 2014

i still think its the light...

watchguy123 · Mar 14, 2014

that Reef Guy said:
Man, you are scarring people away from SPS.

I have SPS and do very little of that.

I do big Water Changes Weekly.

I keep them High up on Racks (About 5 Inches under the Light).

I have a lot of Light and a lot of Flow and they do great.

I do not even check my Calcium or Magnesium because it always is so High.

I do not have a Fancy setup with Calcium Reactors and all that stuff either.

I do not even have a Sump.

My set up is very basic.

Yes, you do have to keep an eye out for pests but a 6 Line Wrasse can take of that.

P.S. My Alkalinity is the least stable thing in my aquarium right now.

Sometimes it will drop to 5

I do not know why people say that SPS is hard to do.

I find them easier to keep than most any other Coral.

Cant argue with your success . Good to know that alk is your least stable parameters and it sometimes drops to 5--how bad could that be on color or survivability. I think you are fortunate that you do not bother checking Calicum and Magnesium because darn it they are always high. And pests, keep an eye on them and add a 6 line wrasse and it sounds like your are definitely on the way to being pest free. Don't need no stinking sump and calcium reactor for sure. I mean if you just stop to think about : If your calcium and mag are always high with water changes. And its just your alk that drifts to five and all over the place, and you wouldn't want a ca reactor or need the sump for a protein skimmer? You do have good flow which is great, what kind of flow do you have, the kind that blows like crazy, a cool breeze, random or chaotic flow, gyre flow and or water moves pretty darn good any way you cut it. You basic approach is working so well for you and I am glad. There is nothing to read or learn or discuss on the forum for you. You have found the secret without all the handwork, attention and detail everyone else requires. You are have obviously keyed in on the important aspects of reef keeping and have figured to stay away from the meaningless ones. Kudos to you. NO reason to build on the experience and knowledge base of others when you have so smoothly zeroed in on success. I mean really, we could have a discussion of the value of testing alkalinity, calcium, magnesium, nitrates , phosphates, salinity, temp, flow design and other characiereists. But why, you seem to have a great simple basic solution Love to see see your tank and corals. Fun to see growth, coloration, whatever parameters you do record and follow. If you run a small enough tank, then maybe all you do need is a water change or not. Interesting reading, love to see pictures of your tank, how long you have had it. The bottom-line is that there are many ways to accomplish well maintained reef tank. I am not sure i would approach reef keeping the ways that you are. Some reefers are luckier than others and some reefers are smarter than others, of course there are those reefers that are neither smart nor lucky but that is for another day's discussion

Reef head · Mar 14, 2014

watchguy123 said:
Cant argue with your success . Good to know that alk is your least stable parameters and it sometimes drops to 5--how bad could that be on color or survivability. I think you are fortunate that you do not bother checking Calicum and Magnesium because darn it they are always high. And pests, keep an eye on them and add a 6 line wrasse and it sounds like your are definitely on the way to being pest free. Don't need no stinking sump and calcium reactor for sure. I mean if you just stop to think about : If your calcium and mag are always high with water changes. And its just your alk that drifts to five and all over the place, and you wouldn't want a ca reactor or need the sump for a protein skimmer? You do have good flow which is great, what kind of flow do you have, the kind that blows like crazy, a cool breeze, random or chaotic flow, gyre flow and or water moves pretty darn good any way you cut it. You basic approach is working so well for you and I am glad. There is nothing to read or learn or discuss on the forum for you. You have found the secret without all the handwork, attention and detail everyone else requires. You are have obviously keyed in on the important aspects of reef keeping and have figured to stay away from the meaningless ones. Kudos to you. NO reason to build on the experience and knowledge base of others when you have so smoothly zeroed in on success. I mean really, we could have a discussion of the value of testing alkalinity, calcium, magnesium, nitrates , phosphates, salinity, temp, flow design and other characiereists. But why, you seem to have a great simple basic solution Love to see see your tank and corals. Fun to see growth, coloration, whatever parameters you do record and follow. If you run a small enough tank, then maybe all you do need is a water change or not. Interesting reading, love to see pictures of your tank, how long you have had it. The bottom-line is that there are many ways to accomplish well maintained reef tank. I am not sure i would approach reef keeping the ways that you are. Some reefers are luckier than others and some reefers are smarter than others, of course there are those reefers that are neither smart nor lucky but that is for another day's discussion

I totally agree 100 percent with this statement. I actually purchase my corals from folks like this for very cheap. I call them mystery corals because they are brown. Sometimes I get lucky with cheap corals.. my tank is 1 1/2 old and I would say 80 percent stocked. I dose 2 part every day @ 1 47 mls of alk to stay at 8. This is not beliefs, but facts. I think it is very cruel to subject any livestock to these swing conditions and we're here to keep corals alive. Alive is the definition of constant.

Chris07 · Mar 14, 2014

I do not think you are stripping too much away. When I first added sps I use to watch everything daily and I had a zero nutrient system (as I was told to have by an older reefer friend) and my sps would grow and color nicely. Never lost any to that but it did definitely slow growth and decrease a little color. When I started letting things dirty up a bit my growth increased and so did my color. Get a better water change routine. We spend a lot on these corals and what it takes to maintain them so really does 10-15 minutes a week really hurt? I had some swings when I would do bi-weekly 10% water changes. Now I just do 5% weekly. Other than that everything seems pretty good in your tank except maybe your lights. I am not experienced with leds so I can not speak on the intensity you have so like somebody else said get a par meter or borrow one. What other corals are in the area of these dying ones? I unfortunately had a myagi tort that started really taking off and I had a torch coral that when fully extended was 6" away yet one night I caught it with one giant long tentacle wrapped around my tort. I immediately moved it but by morning it started dying off. I dipped it and I lowered it a bit (something ive learned with sps is when I get a hurt or dying coral I place it in a shadier area and it usually starts healing back. I've saved a couple of friends pieces this way) but after my coral was hit by the torch it lost all tissue within 2 days.

EricTheRed · Mar 14, 2014

sirreal said:
He tested his Refractometer with RO water. This works but the calibration fluid is better. You are missing something! Do you have any reefer friends? take a water sample to someone else and run every test they have. I have to ask you this only because I went through the same thing. Your water sorce. Do you know if your water sorce has chlorimines in it? Do you have the new style carbon block in your RO? Check with your water company and see if they are putting cloramines in the water. This happend to me and I did not know they changed from chlorine to chlorine chloramines and ammo. the normal carbon in your RO wont remove all the chloramines. I lost many SPS. I found the easy way to fix it is by just adding some chlorine, chlorramines and ammo remover to my RO water. Problem solved. I also added it right to my tank and the die off stoped.

I've been following along in this thread because I went from a healthy sps tank to death and destruction in a couple months. I still cannot pinpoint the reason why. My param's are stable and I test like crazy so I know there aren't any swings. this chloramines idea has me intrigued, do you know if you can test for it?

EricTheRed · Mar 15, 2014

I called the Village who put me in touch with the Utilities Super and he confirmed there are no choramines added. That was a quick to rule out, thanks for the tip.

larangcon · Mar 15, 2014

Your tank might be starving, try supplementing with AcroPower

barbianj · Mar 15, 2014

Start from square one and use calibrating fluid with your refractometer. RO water should NOT be used for calibrating.

freakit · Mar 15, 2014

That palmers Mille colony looks wild. The seller having it on the sand also has me thinking its a wild colony. I know ppl who keep wilds but I myself cannot yet. Maybe it is the ph swing that the Mille can't stand. Just some thoughts.

that Reef Guy · Mar 16, 2014

watchguy123 said:
Cant argue with your success . Good to know that alk is your least stable parameters and it sometimes drops to 5--how bad could that be on color or survivability. I think you are fortunate that you do not bother checking Calicum and Magnesium because darn it they are always high. And pests, keep an eye on them and add a 6 line wrasse and it sounds like your are definitely on the way to being pest free. Don't need no stinking sump and calcium reactor for sure. I mean if you just stop to think about : If your calcium and mag are always high with water changes. And its just your alk that drifts to five and all over the place, and you wouldn't want a ca reactor or need the sump for a protein skimmer? You do have good flow which is great, what kind of flow do you have, the kind that blows like crazy, a cool breeze, random or chaotic flow, gyre flow and or water moves pretty darn good any way you cut it. You basic approach is working so well for you and I am glad. There is nothing to read or learn or discuss on the forum for you. You have found the secret without all the handwork, attention and detail everyone else requires. You are have obviously keyed in on the important aspects of reef keeping and have figured to stay away from the meaningless ones. Kudos to you. NO reason to build on the experience and knowledge base of others when you have so smoothly zeroed in on success. I mean really, we could have a discussion of the value of testing alkalinity, calcium, magnesium, nitrates , phosphates, salinity, temp, flow design and other characiereists. But why, you seem to have a great simple basic solution Love to see see your tank and corals. Fun to see growth, coloration, whatever parameters you do record and follow. If you run a small enough tank, then maybe all you do need is a water change or not. Interesting reading, love to see pictures of your tank, how long you have had it. The bottom-line is that there are many ways to accomplish well maintained reef tank. I am not sure i would approach reef keeping the ways that you are. Some reefers are luckier than others and some reefers are smarter than others, of course there are those reefers that are neither smart nor lucky but that is for another day's discussion

I am sorry if you disagree with me or I upset you.

I am just stating what works for me.

I personally do not feel that you have to spend 50,000 on as SPS System.

I also feel that because many seem to say you do that scares away newer Hobbyists from trying SPS because of the "they are impossible to keep" stigma.

I am just encouraging people to try SPS.

My Tank is 55 Gallons and is 4 Years Old so perhaps because it is established is why I have SPS success I do not know.

All I can tell you is that it is a Bare Bones Set Up.

For Flow I have two Hydor Koralia 1500.

For Lights I have a 4 Bulb T5HO Fixture with ATI Bulbs and two All Blue Ecoxotic Stunner Strip LED's to make the Corals Pop.

Other than that the only equipment that I have is a Heater and a Tetra "Hang on the Back" Whisper Cascading Freshwater Filter with Carbon and GFO.

I Dose Seachem Trace Elements and Ammino Acids twice a Week.

Reef head · Mar 16, 2014

that Reef Guy said:
I am sorry if you disagree with me or I upset you.

I am just stating what works for me.

less typing and more pictures. Prove your system. By the looks of your

I personally do not feel that you have to spend 50,000 on as SPS System.

I also feel that because many seem to say you do that scares away newer Hobbyists from trying SPS because of the "they are impossible to keep" stigma.

I am just encouraging people to try SPS.

My Tank is 55 Gallons and is 4 Years Old so perhaps because it is established is why I have SPS success I do not know.

All I can tell you is that it is a Bare Bones Set Up.

For Flow I have two Hydor Koralia 1500.

For Lights I have a 4 Bulb T5HO Fixture with ATI Bulbs and two All Blue Ecoxotic Stunner Strip LED's to make the Corals Pop.

Other than that the only equipment that I have is a Heater and a Tetra "Hang on the Back" Whisper Cascading Freshwater Filter with Carbon and GFO.

I Dose Seachem Trace Elements and Ammino Acids twice a Week.

Provide pictures. I would love to just toss all my useless stuff away. Trace elements and amino acids....... that doesn't make an sps tank? Pictures...

96silvia · Mar 18, 2014

Sorry I haven't been on in a couple of days. my ph sits about 8.2 my tank is in the basement so I have seen it drop down to 7.9 in the winter, but I took a hose from the skimmer and moved it outside the stand and its pretty stable. that was done months before I had issues with the sps dying. oh I also forgot to mention that I am using a typhoon III extreme from air water and ice that removes chloramines. I did notice that the tds had gone from 0 to 5. could that have caused the problem.

somebody asked what other sps was near where the Palmer's mille was. I have tri-color validia, very small frag of green slimer, oregon tort. about 1 foot away hawkins echinata, blue berry special, ora pearlberry
deep water carolinia, red planet and garf bonsai none of which were affected.

newe70 · Apr 16, 2014

I was in the boat as you were. I bought a total of 13 colonies. I was so thrilled and excited. Just after about 5 weeks, I lost about 7 colonies, rtn. I tested water parameters and everything within normally range. Except the Alk in between 8-9.

It is so freaking frustrated that, I even thinking about breaking down my set up.

96silvia · Apr 16, 2014

I hear ya. It is frustrating... I have tons of cool zoas but I want sps

newe70 · Apr 17, 2014

I was in the same boat as you were. I bought a total of 13 colonies. I was so thrilled and excited. Just after about 5 weeks, seven of nine colonies were rtn'ed. I tested my water parameters and everything was within normally range. Except the Alk was swinging b/t 8-9, which is not too bad, IMO.

It is so freaking frustrated that, I even thinking about breaking down my set up.

Sorry for the double post...was trying to edit.

Deadcalm · Apr 17, 2014

96silvia,

Could you go into your feeding schedule and tell us how much and what type if food your feeding your fish? Your nitrate and po4 are very low. This is fine if you're feeding heavy, but if your not you could be starving your coral.

Or it could be some type of heavy metal contamination? Do you have any metal clamps or galvanized metal in your sump?

96silvia · Apr 17, 2014

I feed 2 times a day 6 large flake and 20 pellets in the morning and 2 cubes of mysis and flake in the evening I also feed oyster feast to the corals after the lights go out.I have never thought of my levels being too low. I guess I could shut off my skimmer. Here is my livestock list.
2 saddleback clowns
2 coral beauty
Earmuff wrasse
Royal gramma
Black and white damsel
Mandarin goby
Tons of snails and hermits.
Linkia starfish
Brown fancy serpant star

96silvia · Apr 17, 2014

As far as I know there is no metal in my tank I have one metal light clamp in my refugum. Come to think of it when I stop the return pump and the water flows back into the sump sometimes the meral light cover does get inro the light.. last night I noticed my sunset monti had a bleached spot in the center. So I pulled it out of my 180 and put it my 34 gallon.