Sps high nutrients myth?

Gungo · Jun 4, 2018

Hentz said:
This was two days ago.

Whats the name of the acropora coral in the middle top? the green with purple tips?

Centerline · Jun 4, 2018

Hentz said:
This was two days ago.

Well done!

Hentz · Jun 4, 2018

Roggio said:
Great thread; I think a lot of people are not realizing these bacteria are not multiplying in their tanks. When I take a probiotic I realize it must be taken daily and a lot of these products are the same concept. Back me up on this @UWC ?

It really seems like finding the nutrients, flow, and light that works in your tank. I’ve noticed a lot of well established tanks handle high nutrients well. Maybe it’s because the import and export is so efficient.

It’s crazy to see the contrast of a very unproductive post like @vio and some of the great posts like @Hentz. How long has your tank been set up?

My tank has been setup officially for 1 year in about 22 days. I set it up on my birthday June 23, 2017 with water. I moved some corals over from my Reefer 170 on July 22, 2017 after letting the tank run fallow for a month. Started with mostly dry rock, some live rock, and sphere balls that I've had for 2+ years that I added in the sump. I also added Fritz Turbo Start 900 to get the bacteria going.

While my tank is still establishing, only being a year old, I've found that for this tank high nutrients have been key. Just in recent months, I have began to fight Phosphates and bring them down. I started with GFO which worked, but too aggressively. So I got my Chaeto Reactor going again. For the first time, my Phosphates reached 0.6ppm and I was so ecstatic I had been winning against nutrients. While I was happy, my corals were not. Most of my Acropora began to fade and become starved.. My Zoanthids became pale and started looking transparent. I began feeding the tank heavy again and only saw an increase in polyps, but not color. It wasn't until I went out of town Memorials Day weekend that I found my Reactor had been shut off again. This was simply due to a power strip failure that just quit working. But I also returned home to a beautiful and flourishing tank. The exact point I have been chasing ever since I realized high nutrients in my tank were key. Having cyano and other algae issues right now is something I have to deal with. I will not fight them but I will let them be as my tank is readjusting. Everytime you change the nutrient export/import of your tank, you will simply have a bacteria imbalance. I will allow "nature" to take its course and balance back out.

I'm truly unaware of my nutrient export. I run socks (not recommended with Triton, but I have to for noise reduction in sump). I let them sit and become filthy in the tank, and only run a Protein skimmer. It seems my corals, rock, and sand do most of the work.

frcarvajal said:
Whats the name of the acropora coral in the middle top? the green with purple tips?

I purchased that as Mike Paletta's Tri-Color Stag from Golden Basket, was a 3" frag.

Centerline said:
Well done!

Thank you! I realized the photo came out really crappy on computer. Sorry.

Hentz · Jun 4, 2018

Here’s a top down under my Blue LED strip from May 6, 2018 while I was cutting frags for local people.

dz6t · Jun 5, 2018

jda said:
ULNS is one of the most overused words in the hobby. That and SPS - there are so many different kinds of SPS that it matters to specify which ones.

In any case, Ultra Low, to me, is lower than you can get with "natural" methods of aragonite/phosphate binding, water changes, fuges, anoxic bacteria devouring No3, etc. I have natural-seawater level nutrients using all of these, but they are not ultra low, just low at about .01p and .1n.

To go Ultra Low, you need to be using LC, GFO, Organic Carbon, etc. Then you can get below those number.

ULNS is meaningless without testing organic in the tank which home test kit is not available yet. Low nitrate and phosphate do not mean low nutrient. The reef slop is filled with nutrient.

Mattrg02 · Jun 5, 2018

Hentz said:
This was two days ago.

Nice tank! Hold my beer while I dump a bottle of nutrients into my tank

Hentz · Jun 5, 2018

Mattrg02 said:
Nice tank! Hold my beer while I dump a bottle of nutrients into my tank

Don't get crazy now

.

Slowly ramp up the nutrients in your tank if that is what you wish to do. I'm very happy with the results of very high nutrients in my system. I'm unaware of my NO3 as I should test that today since I have the day off..

I'll do some tests and post back in a bit.

vio · Jun 8, 2018

Roggio said:
Great thread; I think a lot of people are not realizing these bacteria are not multiplying in their tanks. When I take a probiotic I realize it must be taken daily and a lot of these products are the same concept. Back me up on this @UWC ?

It really seems like finding the nutrients, flow, and light that works in your tank. I’ve noticed a lot of well established tanks handle high nutrients well. Maybe it’s because the import and export is so efficient.

It’s crazy to see the contrast of a very unproductive post like @vio and some of the great posts like @Hentz. How long has your tank been set up?

Is crazy to read your post, did you know how to measure the density of Bacteria ?, "Maybe it’s because the import and export is so efficient." ?!?! , show me a tank 6-8 years old, run 50 ppm Nitrate and 1.2 PO4 and grow H.E. SPS. If you grow mush. you may be right lol.

eraserhead187 · Jun 8, 2018

I’ve got my nitrates at 40-50 and phosphates at .03 and my LPS, nem, and softies are going crazy. Haven’t done SPS in this tank, mostly because I don’t want the nitrates super low. Maybe I’ll have to give it a run anyway.

vio · Jun 10, 2018

Because my post was "unproductive" i will try to share some info. about my tank ( 300 display , 60 Gal. sump, 90 Gal. refuge)
In my opinion is .........." What , you try to grow ?" LPS ? Mix. ? SPS ? High End SPS ( in my case) I try for so many years to find a " Good way " to maintain the easy maintenance according with my live Corals. I try all kind of Carbon Source , Vinegar, Vodka, Bio-Pellets etc. then Macro Algae ( Chaeto)
Problem is....NOT all "Fancy SPS " like Walt Disney , Homewrecker, etc. love the High density of Bacteria , Vinegar, Vodka, Sugar, Vitamin C convert entire tank in Hatching place , lower the O2 etc. Yes, there is good to reproduce Bacteria , but like i said NOT all SPS respond positive to that High density of Bacteria , Bio-Pellets are great , but very hard to control , how much ? you have to add. all the time , when they melt , pump got clog , ruin all Bio-Mass ( first stage of Bacteria cells) , more then 4 hrs. for pump OFF kill most of the Bacteria in reactor , NOT to mention , NOT all Bio-Pellets reactors in market work well ,then again wait few weeks. Chatto almost the same , very aggressive to remove Nitrate , hard to say how much to remove , NOT to mention may remove more then we know , I use to have Frags for 2 years up , never grow , never color, I remove Macro Algae , use Sulfur Denitrification filter , works great for Nitrate, corals grow and color, is ALL about BALANCE , if you control Nitrate is easy to control PO4 ( i use Rowa) .
I donate to this forum one nice mini colony ( W.D.) , i give one to Tusi ( Super Reefer) few for some dif. forum i still have 7-8 mini colony ( 1.5 t0 2 ' ) and 42 Frags , 3 HR , i got most collectible H.E. SPS. Is all about BALANCE , 4 ppm Nitrate , 0.02 to 0.06 PO4 works great for me.
Take intake air from Outside for Protein Skimmer help.
High Water flow , help ( remove Detritus)
Alk. keep 7.5 dKH max. 8 dKH help ( in special for Bacteria)
No sand, help.
Good Light , help ( Metal H.)
Refuge help ( Big time)
Amino Acids , help
Rinse frozen food , help.
Add. Bacteria ,help.
77-78 F help.
Fishes ....help.
Simple........WORKS.

dz6t · Jun 11, 2018

An established ultra low nutrient tank does not exist, only low nitrate and phosphate.

BonelessEvil · Jan 21, 2019

my nitrates set at a pretty constant 20, phosphate has ranged as high as 0.26, but generally stays at about 0.01-0.09 (I do run BRS GFO). Keeping my alkalinity/calcium/magnesium consistent is more difficult, ranging from 7.2-9.1, 390-475, 1250-1600 respectfully. It's difficult to keep these 3 minerals fat and happy, but not too happy. I've got good coralline growth after year and 3 months running the tank and my acan, Zoanthids and Montipora are happy.

Yet, I'm having trouble keeping acro polyp extension, and on what I think is a Cyphastrea. Should I consider lighting a possible issue? When I got the corals, they had good polyp extension, now one acro has bleached out, though not entirely(picture below). It just looks unhappy. The other acro is growing, has good color, but the polyps are tucked in. Is this an issue? I'm using a Hydra 26 on a Reefer 425 XL deluxe with @randyBRS settings from his recent video on Hydra lighting.

Charlie’s Frags · Jan 21, 2019

BonelessEvil said:
my nitrates set at a pretty constant 20, phosphate has ranged as high as 0.26, but generally stays at about 0.01-0.09 (I do run BRS GFO). Keeping my alkalinity/calcium/magnesium consistent is more difficult, ranging from 7.2-9.1, 390-475, 1250-1600 respectfully. It's difficult to keep these 3 minerals fat and happy, but not too happy. I've got good coralline growth after year and 3 months running the tank and my acan, Zoanthids and Montipora are happy.

Yet, I'm having trouble keeping acro polyp extension, and on what I think is a Cyphastrea. Should I consider lighting a possible issue? When I got the corals, they had good polyp extension, now one acro has bleached out, though not entirely(picture below). It just looks unhappy. The other acro is growing, has good color, but the polyps are tucked in. Is this an issue? I'm using a Hydra 26 on a Reefer 425 XL deluxe with @randyBRS settings from his recent video on Hydra lighting.

How many 26’s come with the 425? What depth are the struggling corals at?

BonelessEvil · Jan 23, 2019

Chaswood79 said:
How many 26’s come with the 425? What depth are the struggling corals at?

2 units, or 4 pucks. The coral in question sits near the top of the tank, the top of it to the water's surface is about 5 inches.

Charlie’s Frags · Jan 23, 2019

BonelessEvil said:
2 units, or 4 pucks. The coral in question sits near the top of the tank, the top of it to the water's surface is about 5 inches.

I would recommend getting rid of gfo and stop worrying about po4 for now. Po4 doesn’t kill acros.

BonelessEvil · Jan 23, 2019

Chaswood79 said:
I would recommend getting rid of gfo and stop worrying about po4 for now. Po4 doesn’t kill acros.

I'm not really worried about PO4. It stays at a pretty constant 0.01-0.09. I'm more or less wondering if polyp extension is that important and, is my lack of extension because of my lights? Good extension always makes me feel like a coral is happy, but does that mean it's growing faster? Or slower if I do not have good PE?

edit: wrote wrong number for PO4

BonelessEvil · Jan 23, 2019

how does GFO affect polyp extension?

Charlie’s Frags · Jan 23, 2019

As soon as I ditched the gfo and I bought a par meter all my acros stopped dying. Beautiful colors, growth and polyp extension. Your acro looks stressed, not dead yet, but something has it upset. What settings do you have your hydras at? Total wattage?