SPS RTN and STN at bases/tips

[mikereefing]

Hey everyone I just want to see if anyone has any input as to why 75% of my acros are suddenly dying in my 66 gallon. This all started after I did a 15% water change two weeks ago because of high phosphates due to my dino battle. I added a single tablespoon of rowaphos GFO (I underdose because I don't want sharp fluctuations). Within two days, my strawberry shortcake RTN overnight and all the tissue was gone. I added carbon and checked all my parameters and everything wasn't too bad. Alk creeped up from 9 to 9.5 suddenly as consumption suddenly stopped but that isn't too much. Ca 420, Mg 1380. Phos 0.45 (still high). Same salt, same RO water source. No massive temp fluctuations. Salinity was just slightly higher at 1.027 but slowly brought it back down. Other corals showing signs of STN at the base and tips. I stopped dosing alk. I'm letting phos and alk slowly go down. Alk steadily came down to 8.8 over a week. Two weeks later, I added more carbon (seachem matrix).

This morning, my blue ultra acro RTN'ed completely overnight. This morning, my alk is 8.8, Ca 420, Mg 1380, phos 0.27, nitrates 10. I'm not sure what else to do as the majority of my acros are slowly dying. Everything started going south after the water change. Anyone have ideas? I know stability is the key but I didn't do anything too rapidly. I'm at a loss right now and feeling very defeated.

 

[Charlie’s Frags]

@SeaDweller

 

[SeaDweller]

@Chaswood79

 

[Charlie’s Frags]

@Chaswood79

Nice try. But tag you’re it

 

[SeaDweller]

@bubbaque

 

[Charlie’s Frags]

@bubbaque

Haha

Yeah right!!!!

 

[Charlie’s Frags]

Hey everyone I just want to see if anyone has any input as to why 75% of my acros are suddenly dying in my 66 gallon. This all started after I did a 15% water change two weeks ago because of high phosphates due to my dino battle. I added a single tablespoon of rowaphos GFO (I underdose because I don't want sharp fluctuations). Within two days, my strawberry shortcake RTN overnight and all the tissue was gone. I added carbon and checked all my parameters and everything wasn't too bad. Alk creeped up from 9 to 9.5 suddenly as consumption suddenly stopped but that isn't too much. Ca 420, Mg 1380. Phos 0.45 (still high). Same salt, same RO water source. No massive temp fluctuations. Salinity was just slightly higher at 1.027 but slowly brought it back down. Other corals showing signs of STN at the base and tips. I stopped dosing alk. I'm letting phos and alk slowly go down. Alk steadily came down to 8.8 over a week. Two weeks later, I added more carbon (seachem matrix).

This morning, my blue ultra acro RTN'ed completely overnight. This morning, my alk is 8.8, Ca 420, Mg 1380, phos 0.27, nitrates 10. I'm not sure what else to do as the majority of my acros are slowly dying. Everything started going south after the water change. Anyone have ideas? I know stability is the key but I didn't do anything too rapidly. I'm at a loss right now and feeling very defeated.

What did the corals look like before you added the gfo?

 

[SeaDweller]

honestly dude, your tank looks super duper new new. Having PO4 dang near 0.50 ppm probably didn't help much, having a dino issue... don't let anyone tell you that you adding that ONE tbsp of GFO is what caused that. That's coincidental. Something you did or that was happening prior to your GFO or WC set them on the way out.

 

[Emon]

I had the same thing happen to me but, I think it was the temperature fluctuation. My tank went 2 degrees higher than normal, normal being 79 degrees. I also had some magnets that were leaking and I took them out. Right now I’m using something called stop rtn by prime coral but, I can’t really tell if it has any positive effect. I feel your pain as feeling defeated , I lost around the same amount of acros and was going to give up. Instead of leaving the hobby I came to the realization that this is something that happens to many people , not just the beginners. I have too much invested to just walk away. I am looking at a this as learning lesson and hopefully in time I will get my tank back to looking like apart of the coral reef as I envision it

 

[Salemsoul]

If you have a lot going, Instability, over a short period of time: nutrients too high, salinity to high, dkh rising & falling. That is going to be too much for a coral already under stress from your increased phosphates. That will cause RTN. Stability is key and always look to make gradual changes over time. I moved my dkh from 10 to 8 over two months, from the advice of other acro keeps.
Focus on your water right now and get the levels where you need them to be at, sps can grow back even if you lose half the frag to stn.

 

[Charlie’s Frags]

OP if your corals looked fine before the gfo then it was not a coincidence. Don’t let anyone else tell you different.

 

[Salemsoul]

OP if your corals looked fine before the gfo then it was not a coincidence. Don’t let anyone else tell you different.

Contaminated GFO? Always a possibility.. crazier things have happened. Maybe an ICP test? could show any potential toxins

 

[Charlie’s Frags]

Contaminated GFO? Always a possibility.. crazier things have happened. Maybe an ICP test? could show any potential toxins

Or not properly rinsed

 

[Salemsoul]

Or not properly rinsed

I looked up the brand the OP uses, it has specific instructions not to rinse out. So GFO being a cause or contaminant would be directly related to the brand and a decreased chance it is a user error. @mikereefing Have you done an ICP test on your system before?

 

[TMB]

I think having the ability to "test things" is most of the problem for new SPS keepers.
I'll explain:
On one day you get the urge to test NO3 and PO4 because you're having a dino problem - so you do.
When you see that the numbers aren't exactly where you want them - you make a change = SPS stress.
Then the next day you read on R2R that one DKH level is better than another level, and decide to change that too = SPS stress.
Then being the good reef keeper that you are, decide to check salinity - oops a little high or low, so let's fix that = SPS stress.
Then we think about the lights one day - don't even get me started on this one!

The list of things that can be "tested" daily causes us to second guess and make small changes almost every day. Those changes all cause stress, and when these stresses get compounded = you get STN/RTN.

The seasoned SPS keeper doesn't sweat small drifts from the norm - and doesn't change anything fast. Instead opting for a change in course direction that will result in the change happening over a period of time - sometimes over months.

Best thing to do is go slower, and let everything find it's equilibrium based on your tank - your husbandry - your feeding - your... the list goes on.

We really need to stop trying to "fix" things, and instead use processes that give better results. (and the explanation to this is so long that it Is the essence of being good at this)

Take a really long time and consider any potential change over several days or weeks, and think about the potential repercussions of said proposed change. When you're sure of the direction you want to go - then go ahead and go, but do it slow. Nothing good happens fast (think about that one!)

SPS require a level of confidence in knowing what to do - and then doing it in a way that doesn't tick anything off. The problem is that it takes some failures to learn what to do, and build that confidence.


Just my 2 cents - HTH

 

[mikereefing]

If you have a lot going, Instability, over a short period of time: nutrients too high, salinity to high, dkh rising & falling. That is going to be too much for a coral already under stress from your increased phosphates. That will cause RTN. Stability is key and always look to make gradual changes over time. I moved my dkh from 10 to 8 over two months, from the advice of other acro keeps.
Focus on your water right now and get the levels where you need them to be at, sps can grow back even if you lose half the frag to stn.

Thanks for the help everyone. Yeah was trying to not make too many changes and just let things ride slowly to what I wanted. I guess a dkh drop from 9.5 to 8.8 over two weeks could still be rather abrupt. I just sent an ICP test out this morning.

My question now is should I just leave the corals with stn alone? I prefer not to frag them and introduce more stress, but I also feel like if I can save it from stn by fragging, I’ll do it.

 

[TMB]

It can help or hurt - it's a crap shoot IMO. I prefer to just let them be. The truth is that they will be stunted for a while no matter what you do. Focus on slow and steady - and try to make changes like you're steering a HUGE cruise ship.
The acro's will come around for you if you give them what they need and go slow.

Edit: not to make you consider changing anything or anything - but I think lower Alk like ~7 is much easier to navigate.

 

[schuby]

The second sentence of your first post mentions a dino battle. That likely means that your corals were stressed from whatever that involved.

I also don't believe the single tablespoon of GFO caused this issue, based on my experience with it.

I'd recommend to stop making changes/adjustments and let things stabilize.

 

[Charlie’s Frags]

Thanks for the help everyone. Yeah was trying to not make too many changes and just let things ride slowly to what I wanted. I guess a dkh drop from 9.5 to 8.8 over two weeks could still be rather abrupt. I just sent an ICP test out this morning.

My question now is should I just leave the corals with stn alone? I prefer not to frag them and introduce more stress, but I also feel like if I can save it from stn by fragging, I’ll do it.

No
Your tiny alk change did not cause a mass stress event.

How did your sps look before you turned on the gfo?

 

[JCOLE]

No
Your tiny alk change did not cause a mass stress event.

How did your sps look before you turned on the gfo?