Starting a New tank with prodibio startup

[ShivanshMehra]

Hi Guys ,

I am Shivansh From India. I have been into Aquarium hobby since I was a child but have always been into fresh water aquariums. This year , I decided to level up and start Fish only salt water tank. My goal is to create a Hermes clown tank .

In India , there are very few people keeping marine aquariums and have very few products to look into . Seeing this I ordered Prodibio Startup and thought to go ahead with it.

After setting up my aquarium , with dry rock ( AF rock) and dry sand ( live sand and rocks are banned in India) , I let the tank rest for a day or two . After that I added prodibio startup ( 2 vials of bio digest & 1 vial of Stop Ammo , unfortunately I broke 1 so had to go with one ) . The tank size is small , about 20 Gallons without sump and with sump it is about 25 Gallons.

As per the instructions on Prodibio after reconfirming it from them on there official website , I added 1pair chromis and let the tank move on with cycle.

Here are the reading with API Test Kit.

Day 1 : After adding Fish

Salanity : 1.27
PH : 8.2
Ammonia : 0.25
Nitrite : 0
Nitrate : 5ppm

Day 2 :

Salanity :1.27
PH : 8.2
Ammonia : 0.5
Nitrite : 0
Nitrate : 10 ppm

Day 3 : Today

Salanity : 1.27
PH : 8.2
Ammonia : 0.25
Nitrite : 0
Nitrate : 10ppm

I know reading all the above threads , that the cycle takes way longer than expected, but just to be sure I am on the right part and to look for a mentor , I am here asking this question.

I know cycling with Fish is a harsh method , but that is what I have available here so had no choice , sorry if I disappoint some people here in this forum .

 

[brandon429]

Hey welcome :) nice to meet you

you will like this initial feedback = positive

-you haven’t done anything wrong, that produce is concentrated bacteria, active right out of the gate, it’s why they mention adding fish early because the fish waste feeds the bacteria and the fish are -not- burned by their waste, it’s why you can see them acting fine, feeding, swimming normally each day now.

those readings for ammonia are fine, just about every reef tank using api posts those ammonia levels, we don’t expect them to be zero in a stocked running setup. we expect api to read .25-.5 just as it does above

can you post a tank picture so we can see the layout, we can help tune it right here :)

there are pros and cons in reefing, you may have thought the fish were harmed but luckily that’s not the case…the packaged bacteria are strong and able in that brand and carrying fish load is easy, the hidden challenge is fish disease but that has nothing to do with how you cycle at the start. Welcome to our forum! Post tank pics

 

[ShivanshMehra]

Hi ,

Thank you so much Brandon for the positive feedback , I am so excited for this tank as this is my starting tank . Unfortunately corals are banned in India along with live rocks and live sand . So had to go with everything dry.

Here is the images of the tank . Sorry please ignore that scratches , it is my old Fresh water tank converted for salt water tank .

 

[brandon429]

There’s no need for cycle testing from here on out, that will remove +1 headache to have to second guess the safety status of the tank each day, you’re already up and running. The way it works is, in about ten days total all the rocks and sand are covered in bacteria and you can add what you wanted for the tank, begin the stock build up. Are there pet shops that sell you basic coral frags? what items do you want to add to the tank

 

[ShivanshMehra]

Hi Brandon ,

Unfortunately corals are banned in India. I am looking to make a Hermes clown tank , adding abit of anemones, and a few clowns is my target.

We do have a fish store here , but mostly we get saltwater fishes on order . I have seen the BRS videos , and looking to get clowns from a clutch imported. For anemones, I am looking to get a few bubble tips and long tentacles with green grass ones. Though I am not sure if bubble tips and long tenticles will actually stay together as per the chart posted here in the forums.

Do you mean I should stop testing ? I am just worried about algae , so have also kept the lights off as per the store nearby , they have given a schedule for lighting for 12 days .

 

[Paul B]

Shivansh, nice to meet you. I have a few friends from India. :beaming-face-with-smiling-eyes:
I agree with Brandon kind of. I would have started the tank differently but you do what you have to and since you already started it I would take it slow by not adding anything else for a couple of weeks. The bacteria, even store bought bacteria needs some time to populate those dry rocks.

Don't worry about algae. It is a good thing and supposed to happen. If it doesn't grow, it is a bad sign. My reef now after a cleaning is a produce farm of algae which will stay a while, then leave but when it does, my water will be perfect.

Just feed those few fish sparingly for a while before adding another one. It will take a few weeks or more likely months but when you see the rocks taking on some growth you will be in the right direction

Good Luck

 

[ShivanshMehra]

Hi ,

Thank you Paul for your reply . Nice to hear you have friends here. Maybe I can be added as one in future .

I am in fact not looking to add anything at the moment. It is just a thought for the future. I am just worried if the tank is cycling ? and if it is cycling correctly. I have been advised about a light schedule , should I follow that or not? Also , when should I change the water ? these are the types of questions that I have.

My plan is to keep this tank still like this for at least a month or two , no hurries , I want it to build a good culture of bacteria. For Hermes tank , I need to add clownfishes together , and for that the bacteria culture is important.

Also , since I have nothing else to go with , I am abit worried about tank crashing , so the main focus is cycling and reading posts here as a guest , I am sure, you guys , having heaps of experience are the best to turn too .

@brandon429 was the one I read the most in cycled tanks , and I really want to share every bit here , and take all the advises he and others like you give , so that I can also be a good tank owner like you guys .

 

[ShivanshMehra]

@Paul B I am just feeding the fishes once a day , 4 small flakes, so they end up finishing as soon as possible . Have also got a skimmer in place, but to be frank , all is so new and exciting for me , I am happy and confused.

 

[Paul B]

You don't have to be concerned about light now. Any light is fine as long as the fish can see to eat.
I personally would not change the water because you want some ammonia to feed the bacteria as the bacteria will keep the tank from crashing, not water changes.

New water is not beneficial at this point.

PS. you can feed them a little more than that so there is some waste for now. You also don't need that skimmer for now. I would wait a few weeks.

 

[ShivanshMehra]

Hi ,

Thank you for that .

They are small fishes , can you please suggest how much should I feed them? Also , could you tell me if I should switch on the lights completely ?

The light schedule give to me is:
Day 1: No Light
Day 2: No Light
Day 3 : NO Light
Day 4: No Light
Day 5 : 2 Hours Blue Light
Day 6 : 4 Hours blue Light
Day 7 : 6 Hours Blue Light and 2 hours all lights
Day 8 : 8 hours blue light and 4 hours main light
Day 9 : 10 Hours blue light and 6 hours main Light
Day 10 : 12 hours blue light and 8 hours main light

The amount of light is the same. That means 12 hours of light out of which 4 hours only blue light and 8 hours of mix light.

Also , should I feed prodibio digest after 15 days ? That is what prodibio has asked me to do .

What could be the higher number in terms of ammonia , nitrate and nitrite in cycle ?

Have heaps of questions, sorry @Paul B , if you want I can ask it one by one .

 

[brandon429]

You don't need to test for ammonia and nitrite any further. You are off and running.

Algae is coming regardless, it's a required phase for dry rock setups. If you delay lighting now it'll just come later when anemones are in the tank with lighting.

You'll have to choose how you want to handle algae among all the ways posted online

This is what I recommend:

When it grows on a rock, lift out the rock and scrape it off, set the rock back. In a few years that work will lessen once the rock matures.

When it grows on the sand, siphon it out with a partial water change. Don't spend time avoiding it, inevitable, spend time manually removing it. No testing is required to be algae free.

 

[ShivanshMehra]

Thank you Brandon.

Noted it, I will do as stated, hope the tank cycles soon . I still want to test because it feels like I am back to chemistry lab . LOL.

 

[brandon429]

The kits you're using can't give an accurate reading. If you're wanting to test for ammonia get a seneye. It's ok to test with those kits without seneye, just don't take any reaction to their readings, they're not accurate. We knew the initial ammonia reading was wrong right off the bat... testing and reacting with non digital kits will mislead you, the cycle is timed by the number of days underwater stated for your tank, ten days. Not by testing

I wouldn't expect anyone from a pet store to know anything about updated cycling science, their job is to sell you things

We can let you know here what needs to be done that way you're not asking the lfs and getting conflicting advice. You can just go in and buy what we work out here and it'll work far better + save you money

 

[brandon429]

One of the ways your ammonia kit misleads is by reading you nh4 which reefing doesn't use, we use nh3. You have to estimate nh3 from a chart and a color guess; those are subjective guess test kits.

 

[ShivanshMehra]

Yes sure , I will keep that in mind. I will try to find the digital test kits . If I cannot find then what can be done ?

 

[brandon429]

we dont need you to test for ammonia and nitrite, those two are covered, you handled the cycle by bottle bac and in ten days all the bacteria are plated to the rocks, locked in permanently. it can't fail. there's nothing for you to test right now other than temp and salinity :)

when its time to add inverts, anemones, you can use the cheap test kits to estimate nitrate and phosphate to guide best colors, but that's not needed now. all you do now is watch the tank be normal day by day, study up on anemone care and be reading the fish disease forum-those chromis are the #1 importer of fish disease into reef tanks. there's a chance those don't have any disease though, they look nice so far for sure.

 

[brandon429]

every hour there's fish and food in the system the cycle is seating in, without you testing, and it doesn't stop as long as the tank remains wet. that's why we don't need you to test for cycle components, engineers who make prodibio already did that for charge. you used their designed product exactly right, it's now working. done in ten days via wait time not testing for params. we dont need you to test for ammonia or nitrite ever again on this tank, they can't be out of spec from here on out. disease import is your sole concern.

 

[ShivanshMehra]

Well thank you @brandon429 advice taken. Will leave them and look at the tank for a few days .

 

[ShivanshMehra]

every hour there's fish and food in the system the cycle is seating in, without you testing, and it doesn't stop as long as the tank remains wet. that's why we don't need you to test for cycle components, engineers who make prodibio already did that for charge. you used their designed product exactly right, it's now working. done in ten days via wait time not testing for params. we dont need you to test for ammonia or nitrite ever again on this tank, they can't be out of spec from here on out. disease import is your sole concern.

Indeed , prodibio is relatively new , so this seems the kind of thing that is happening. I will go ahead and do the research work. keep a look at the tank .

 

[brandon429]

I know this sounds hard to believe and in fact it will go against everything you're told and have read about reef cycling

:) but we are obsessive nerds who have been detailing this stuff online and tracking trending outcomes for 20 years, so you're getting the 5.0 assessment lol. it is no harm starting off a reef tank fast these days, it's not mean, they've literally built several product lines that accomplish this very well. (fritz, biospira, dr tims, prodibio, atm, brightwell cycling bac, tetra cycling bac, and ten other strains all do what your tank did)

I wanted to show how we're able to evolve and modify the old ruleset, so it doesn't look like we just ignore core rules. the hobby has been misled astray by believing absolutely anything an nh4 test kit says, and we're recovering from that, now that we have the results of 50K fish+ bottle bac cycles on file to look at plus about ten thousands digital nh3 seneye readings already uploaded to the web to pattern against those known results.

here's how to verify my cycle claims in an independent way:

1. search on google fish-in cycling, or fish cycling with bottle bac reef tank, some key word describing what you did. results, for 400K search return pages: everyone's fish live fine, they don't die, and nearly everyone is flipping out on what api says (.25-.5)

you can see those two stark patterns in any search return attempt, fish aren't dying when using bottle bac, because bottle bac work well.

2.

This is the universal aquarium cycling chart we all were trained on, notice the number of days to the ammonia line drop, and ammonia doesn't rise back up? that's why I mentioned we don't need for you to test it :) / its already predicted so well that millions of charts exist and they all show the same timeline axis for the major params

we can solve your cycle with a time variable that cross references to the parameter we care about.

because you're dealing in saltwater vs freshwater, you get to omit nitrite and nitrate from your factor of cycle

it's not like that in freshwater chemistry, but it is for marine chemistry. that leaves only ammonia mattering for your cycle, and it's fully predictable. if it wasn't controlled your water would be gray, smelly, the fish dead with red gills from total ammonia burn.

there are no calibrated seneye readings that show ammonia noncontrol after day ten in reefing, 100% of those instances are someone reacting to nh4 guesstimation.

by studying thousands of posted seneyes online, plus the outcome of all fish + bottle bac cycles for a decade, your cycle is now predictive vs test based

none of the bottle bac brands took longer than ten days to adhere in this large study:

Bacteria in a bottle, Myth or Fact

Call me old school, back in the day we placed a deli shrimp in a tank to kick start the cycle. When tank reached 1.5-2 ppm ammonia we pulled it out and waited sometimes weeks to months for bacteria to colonize and drop ammonia and nitrites down to 0 to make tank safe for livestock. With recent...

www.reef2reef.com

we get the predictive timing off very long term patterns already uploaded to the web. the reason all reef tanks copy each other in timing, though they exist in different places, is because we're all dosing relatively similar bacteria sources, we're stacking a bunch of high surface area rocks among heated swirling water and providing feed for aquatic bacteria. new science knows these tanks are linked in performance, not variable by much at all.