Starting Salt

[Corey Shelk]

Hi I'm looking to get started in the saltwater community and I'm just going to start small. I'm thinking either a 10 gallon (if it's big enough) or I can use a 20 gal standard or 20 gal long. I was looking into getting a firefish, royal gramma, and yellow
watchman goby if those could all fit into a 10 gal and be happy or the 20. And could any of you also give me advice for the cleaner crew? I've heard about the pistol shrimp/YWG combo which is would love to have also. Thank you! Or I might just even do a 10 gal with just a YWG/PS or maybe a firefish and YWG/PS. Any advice?

 

[Corey Shelk]

Also I plan on having Marco algae throught the tank and maybe some small corals later on

 

[Jesterrace]

I would go with the 20 long. The more shallow depth would be better for coral growth since the lights don't need to penetrate as far and in turn would require a less expensive light. The fish also tend to make more use of the horizontal length than the height and width and the royal gramma does have the potential to be territorial/aggressive (especially towards the firefish) and the 20 long would give them more usable space. The bigger the tank the better for maintaining stable water perameters. On the cleaner crew, I have had great luck with Trochus snails and to a lesser extent Astrea. Turbos are great for immediate cleanup but can disturb your rockwork and they don't seem to last as long. Some people don't care for hermit crabs but I find the scarlet or red legged hermit crabs useful for eating detritus, excess food and in a disaster situation they will find a dead fish and pull it out in the open for you (instead of you having to dig it out of your rockwork). For Shrimp, I really only care for the cleaner shrimp. The others look cool and serve a limited function but the cleaner shrimp serves all kinds of functions in your tank (ie cleans fish of parasites, eats excess food, detritus, will help eat dead inverts and fish if you run into that situation). It also does better than most shrimp with fish. There are many fish that will eat smaller ornamental shrimp but will leave cleaners alone, thereby expanding your fish stocking options.

 

[Richard the Reefer]

He is correct. For beginners bigger is better. I started with the evo 13.5... Bad idea! Horrible idea I had!

 

[Dr. Reef]

bigger tank for start is a good idea and saltwise Instant Ocean will get you going.

 

[Corey Shelk]

So 20 gallon long seem the way to go, thank you! I'll look into those cleaner shrimp and snails, thank you. So the royal gramma has a possibility of being aggressive to the firefish but the others are good to go? How is the stocking level? I definitely don't want to be overstocked and would honestly prefer to be slightly understocked

 

[Greybeard]

The whole 'bigger is better' is true... to a point. The phrase 'water it down' has basis in fact... small problems get big in a hurry when you limit the volume you're dealing with.

Starting with a huge tank is a large financial gamble, and one I wouldn't recommend.

On the other hand, pico sized marine aquariums, < 20 gallons, are an expert level challenge.

I think there's a sweet spot there in the middle... a range where you're not having to sell body parts to acquire proper lighting for a huge tank, but have sufficient water volume make things fairly easy to keep in balance. IMHO, that range is 40 - 75 gallons. Ok, so a 90 is just a few inches taller... and a 30 isn't so small that it'd make that big a difference, but somewhere in, or near, that range gives you your best chances for success.

Doesn't mean you can't go big, or small, to start with. It's your hobby, do as you will... But you should go in knowing that your learning curve is going to be steep.

 

[Corey Shelk]

The whole 'bigger is better' is true... to a point. The phrase 'water it down' has basis in fact... small problems get big in a hurry when you limit the volume you're dealing with.

Starting with a huge tank is a large financial gamble, and one I wouldn't recommend.

On the other hand, pico sized marine aquariums, < 20 gallons, are an expert level challenge.

I think there's a sweet spot there in the middle... a range where you're not having to sell body parts to acquire proper lighting for a huge tank, but have sufficient water volume make things fairly easy to keep in balance. IMHO, that range is 40 - 75 gallons. Ok, so a 90 is just a few inches taller... and a 30 isn't so small that it'd make that big a difference, but somewhere in, or near, that range gives you your best chances for success.

Doesn't mean you can't go big, or small, to start with. It's your hobby, do as you will... But you should go in knowing that your learning curve is going to be steep.

Yes I would love to do a 40B but I don't know if I'll be able to have one. I'm planning for once I get an apartment and I'm in college so I don't know if a 40B would be too large for me. That's why I was trying to lean towards an understocked tank, maybe I could do a 30 though. I love the dimensions of a 30 long or breeder

 

[mstockmaster]

A 20 long is a great size and layout for a beginner. That was my first tank. I ran a mixed reef for 3 years in a 20l with very basic methods. Only a hob filter, a single powerhead, heater, and a black box led. I added a hob skimmer a few years later but really water changes were all that was really necessary. I only broke it down much later due to a Xenia takeover.

 

[Corey Shelk]

Oh wow that's such a lovely tank. So you didn't have a refugium or sump for skimmer for the first few years and it worked?

 

[mstockmaster]

For the first few years I didn't even have a skimmer. All I had was a hob aquaclear 70. I ran purigen and chemipure elite, but not all the time. Only advice is avoid invasive corals.

 

[Corey Shelk]

How did you run those?

 

[mstockmaster]

I used this.

https://www.marinedepot.com/inTank_...ums_Accessories-inTank-6R68907-FIAQAA-vi.html

 

[Jesterrace]

Oh wow that's such a lovely tank. So you didn't have a refugium or sump for skimmer for the first few years and it worked?

On a smaller tank you tend to change the water more frequently so it isn't as necessary. I do recommend keeping smaller tanks as simple as possible, that way you save your budget for an upgrade. I wish I had known that when I started. I went from a 36 gallon bowfront to a 90 gallon within a year and the only thing that transferred was the 40lbs of live rock and the powerhead. All the other mechanical equipment had to be re-bought since it wouldn't be suitable for that large of an upgrade.

A good LED light (ie AI Prime HD or Reef Breeders)
A powerhead (ie Hydro Koralia 3rd Gen in the 1000-1500 gph range)
A HOB filter (ie Fluval 50 or 70 or the Tidal 55 or 75)
A Marine compatible tank heater in the 100-150 watt range (most are marine compatible, but as a precaution I would buy one that specifically states it)
A screen top for the tank (believe me you want a cover as fish will jump at some point)
20lbs of dry pukani or live rock/life rock
10-20lbs of aquarium suitable sand. I personally prefer live sand because of the look and it seems to have the right mixed grain for sand sifting fish (ie gobies)
A Refractometer for measuring salinity in your water (hydrometers are useless)
A solid Marine Test Kit (ie Red Sea)
Drain Hose
A few of the Homer's 5 gallon buckets from Home Depot (they are the cheapest)
A Source of Ammonia and Bacteria to start the cycling process
A Source of RODI water or RODI/Salt Pre-mix or your own RODI unit plus Instant Ocean Salt to mix and make your own saltwater

The aforementioned are all I would recommend for a small tank. If you really decide you want a skimmer later that's up to you, but I found my HOB protein skimmer to be a marginal improvement. Ultimately nothing will be as effective as a good water change regimen. I would recommend doing about 5 gallons per week on that tank and it should keep it nice and healthy.

 

[Jesterrace]

So 20 gallon long seem the way to go, thank you! I'll look into those cleaner shrimp and snails, thank you. So the royal gramma has a possibility of being aggressive to the firefish but the others are good to go? How is the stocking level? I definitely don't want to be overstocked and would honestly prefer to be slightly understocked

The royal gramma is pretty territorial and the firefish (and dartfish in general) are the biggest wimps available in the saltwater tank. It isn't helped by the fact that they are brightly colored and therefore a standout easy target for even a moderately assertive fish. I had a Purple Firefish and a Scissortail Dartfish in my 36 gallon tank and they spent so much time hiding in their burrows that I will never buy them again. I was actually somewhat relieved that they didn't make it to the transfer for my upgrade (a combination of aggressive fish an aiptasia pest anemone took care of that for me) as they are arguably the worst fish to attempt to trap and re-home. I would go with fish that are a little more assertive/bold. Clownfish are the dime a dozen fish of the saltwater trade but they are always active and visible. Some will disagree but I would say an Occ or Percula variety would be okay in a 20 long.

 

[Corey Shelk]

On a smaller tank you tend to change the water more frequently so it isn't as necessary. I do recommend keeping smaller tanks as simple as possible, that way you save your budget for an upgrade. I wish I had known that when I started. I went from a 36 gallon bowfront to a 90 gallon within a year and the only thing that transferred was the 40lbs of live rock and the powerhead. All the other mechanical equipment had to be re-bought since it wouldn't be suitable for that large of an upgrade.

A good LED light (ie AI Prime HD or Reef Breeders)
A powerhead (ie Hydro Koralia 3rd Gen in the 1000-1500 gph range)
A HOB filter (ie Fluval 50 or 70 or the Tidal 55 or 75)
A Marine compatible tank heater in the 100-150 watt range (most are marine compatible, but as a precaution I would buy one that specifically states it)
A screen top for the tank (believe me you want a cover as fish will jump at some point)
20lbs of dry pukani or live rock/life rock
10-20lbs of aquarium suitable sand. I personally prefer live sand because of the look and it seems to have the right mixed grain for sand sifting fish (ie gobies)
A Refractometer for measuring salinity in your water (hydrometers are useless)
A solid Marine Test Kit (ie Red Sea)
Drain Hose
A few of the Homer's 5 gallon buckets from Home Depot (they are the cheapest)
A Source of Ammonia and Bacteria to start the cycling process
A Source of RODI water or RODI/Salt Pre-mix or your own RODI unit plus Instant Ocean Salt to mix and make your own saltwater

The aforementioned are all I would recommend for a small tank. If you really decide you want a skimmer later that's up to you, but I found my HOB protein skimmer to be a marginal improvement. Ultimately nothing will be as effective as a good water change regimen. I would recommend doing about 5 gallons per week on that tank and it should keep it nice and healthy.

Thank you so much for the list. My plan was to get an RODI unit so I can do weekly water changes

 

[Corey Shelk]

The royal gramma is pretty territorial and the firefish (and dartfish in general) are the biggest wimps available in the saltwater tank. It isn't helped by the fact that they are brightly colored and therefore a standout easy target for even a moderately assertive fish. I had a Purple Firefish and a Scissortail Dartfish in my 36 gallon tank and they spent so much time hiding in their burrows that I will never buy them again. I was actually somewhat relieved that they didn't make it to the transfer for my upgrade (a combination of aggressive fish an aiptasia pest anemone took care of that for me) as they are arguably the worst fish to attempt to trap and re-home. I would go with fish that are a little more assertive/bold. Clownfish are the dime a dozen fish of the saltwater trade but they are always active and visible. Some will disagree but I would say an Occ or Percula variety would be okay in a 20 long.

Hm ok, maybe I won't get a firefish then. So you think one of those clowns would be good, or a pair?

 

[Corey Shelk]

I used this.

https://www.marinedepot.com/inTank_...ums_Accessories-inTank-6R68907-FIAQAA-vi.html

Ok, thank you!

 

[Jesterrace]

Hm ok, maybe I won't get a firefish then. So you think one of those clowns would be good, or a pair?

A pair should be fine and they do tend to do better in pairs. The Royal Gramma would be fine. Personally, if it were me, I would go with a Possum Wrasse/Pink Streaked Wrasse in that size of tank and/or a sand sifting goby of some kind:

http://aquarium-fish.liveaquaria.com/search?w=Possum Wrasse

 

[Jesterrace]

Thank you so much for the list. My plan was to get an RODI unit so I can do weekly water changes

You can do that or get some 5 gallon water safe jugs and pick it up from your LFS. With small tanks it's kind of a toss up as to which is better. I'll be honest even for my 90 gallon I just buy pre-mix from my LFS. Then again, they are a dedicated Saltwater store (they don't do anything else) run by hobbyists who have been doing saltwater tanks for 15-20 years and they only charge me 75 cents a gallon for RODI/Saltwater Pre-mix and give me RODI water for free. It also helps that they are 1 light down from my house.